Speaker 0 (0s): Our life, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the TrueLife podcast. We are here with the one and only Tommy Carrigan of the TPC podcast. Potentially the hardest working man in podcasting doing three shows a day, he's talked to bankers. He has talked to Delta force. He has talked to some of the best authors in the world and he is still 31 years old. He's made some big changes in his life. Tell me, introduce yourself a little bit.

Speaker 1 (27s): Alright. Thank you so much, man. I'm Tommy Carrigan. I'm 31 years old and I have a podcast Tommy's podcast. That's the, that's the shortest possible answer. I started kind of on a whim in December, 2019, and really have just let my OCD psychopathic work ethic take over it's in middle school. It was basketball in high school. It was weightlifting in college. It was pre-med a little bit after college. It was Photoshop. And then I guess one day in 2019, I was like, fuck it.

I'm going to start talking. And I just haven't shut up since that's what I do.

Speaker 0 (1m 3s): I'm glad you do it, man. And I think that you've gone out of your way to show people who you are. I like that you don't hide stuff, man. You come out and you talk about things that you think are important, regardless of what other people think. You're not afraid to. Hey, say what you think. And that's a very important issue in the beginning. One of the things that really got me listening to your podcast was a story about how you started your podcast. You seemed like you had this path that you were on, you were doing weightlifting, you went to Georgia, you graduated Kuma outie.

You're going to med school. You have this preconceived notion of what your life was going to be, and then be at a mushroom trip or graduation or pressure something changed. Can you share people what happened there?

Speaker 1 (1m 46s): Yeah, so I was dead set on getting into medical school. That's all I did. I mean, you studied when I say that's all I did. I mean, you think I work hard at the podcast, G Jesus Christ in heaven. You should have seen me in college trying to get into medical school, studying around the clock. It's just so I really can't emphasize that enough. That's just all I did, but I don't want to go into that. Cause it's, it's boring. It's all I did all I did. And you know, I liked the idea of it. I was terrified my freshman year, I kind of partied almost failed out.

It was just kind of an idiot. And my sophomore year, I got way too high. Like my first night of my sophomore year was like, had just moved into the frat house. And I was like, oh my God, I need to get my life together. And it's kind of like a joke, you know, when people are like, hold my beer. But I mean, I was literally like, hold my beer. I'm going to bed. And then it was wrong. I was like, I need to go to the library tomorrow. I was like the fuck. So I went to the library, the classes hadn't even started. Like that was weird. And then I did it like the next day we're friends. Right. That was kind of weird too. And then I did it all week and then all next week and then a month and then next month and then the whole semester, and then the next semester.

And then I transferred to the university of Georgia and kind of like reunited with all my buddies from high school. And I did it again. And they were like, what the that's all I was doing. And it was a lot of, it was from fear, but it was also out of like a genuine desire to help people. And I, I think I liked the idea of Dr. Kerrigan being in a white coat, always have a job. Doesn't matter what war there is. Does it matter if the country dissolves, people need doctors.

And I was like, I'll just have to learn. So just live anywhere you want. Every town needs a doctor, but also it was just like, I'll always have enough money. I'll be respected because I was never a good student before this never. So there's a little bit of a chip on my shoulder. And it was also just like, I never want the fear of like things just not going well. And so there was some love, but there was a ton of fear and that's not really a, if you can get you, if you can get you a good ways, if you're not bad on our stomps said that fear is like an animal.

Have it pull your chariot, but keep it in front of you and keep it 12 gauge trained on the back of it said, let it pull you places. But if it turns on you blow his fucking head off is good. I'm a big proponent of fear. And, but as someone that was meditating every day, you can't, and I mind you, I was not even meditating for the right reasons. You know, it's like you take mushrooms and say, go, you open up to the world and you find out like the Viking Berserkers were taking mushrooms so they can kill more. And you're like that no wrong.

It's discovering nuclear energy and going, like, we can power the world. And it's like, oh look a new corrosion on it's like, oh, we were so close. I was meditating. I started in high school kind of just like on a whim. Not really meaning to, but in college I had this realization. I was like, wait, or I like meditate. I'm really focused for like 90 minutes afterwards. No internal monologue. No. And as anybody that's add can kind of relate to it. There's no, I was like, oh, so I could like study for 90 minutes and then I can meditate for 20 minutes there.

I could study for another 90 minutes and I could just do this for 14 hours a day. And that's how I got into medical school. So it's like so close. You're discovering yourself. But I was like, let's use it as a weapon. And that's what I did. And I didn't use it as a weapon and I'm still proud of it. I fucked up everybody. I destroyed the curve. A lot of people failed out because of me. I will never apologize for that. Fucking gets them. But What you, you can't do it forever without also meditation sort of taking a toll on you in the most positive way.

You start to become sort of not to sound like I'm an enlightened hippie douche because I'm not. But you do, you sit alone with your thoughts. You're not hiding on scrolling through. And it's like that meme. Why do you always scroll through Reddit? So I don't have to look after, I don't have to face my own thoughts. And there's some truth to that. But when you sit with them every day, including like your anxieties and your, this and your, that you get really in tuned with also like, fuck, do I want to do this forever?

Once the anxiety of can I do this goes away first semester, I got a four point, oh, I'd never done that before. Second, third, fourth. Now the fear has gone that, you know, we'll never be able to ACE, okay. But then you will never be able to ACE physics. And then you S so the fear goes away and you now know you can do I want to do this? Well, I have to do this. You have to be a doctor. I don't want to do. It's a tough world out there. You know, dad grew up in poverty, climbed his way out. I'm like, no, no, no, D work harder.

All right. And then, you know, a couple another month would go by and then it started to just creep up again. It's really what I want to do. I started to notice that when I would go out, I'd go out like once a month with my friends that share the partying was fun. But even the next day, just laying around, hung over, not doing anything. I was just grinning like an idiot. And I remember one of my roommates, he was this big fat redneck. Remember he looked at me, he goes, dominate the fact that you have so much fun on an off day, going to Walmart.

Maybe you're not happy with what you're doing. And it was wildly profound. And I was like that. I shouldn't be this happy, hung over just because I'm not studying. But you know, like a good Anglo-Saxon you suppress this feeling. So like a good Irish pig, you say, fuck off. And you keep working harder, right? Because life is suffering. But every once in a while, I would also just like smoke a little pot by myself, which I always love doing by myself.

And it was just, it would just come in and it'd be like, dude, is this really what you want to do? Is this really what you want to do? I can't, I don't know what else I could do. And I'd try to keep working. You gotta keep working. And it would, it started to creep in more and more. And I don't remember what the flipping point was. It was, I had already gotten in and I, it was the day after I graduated. I was just like, I was like, I gotta go. And, you know, they always say, when you know, doing psychedelics for the first time, make sure you're in a good place mentally.

I was like, I met, like the had just graduated, had just started dating a girl a couple of months apart, first serious girlfriend on my life knew my older brother was suffering from depression for years. He lived in at, in Atlanta. I was in Athens. Other brother lived in North Carolina. Other brother lived in Maryland. Parents were in Maryland moving to New Hampshire. I'm from New Hampshire. All my friends here in Georgia are going on, gotten a medical school in Miami, talking at me. And instead of being in a good place, I was like, well, let's dump acid onto my brain, not acid mushrooms.

And I went and did that with my, with my, with one of my best friends, went and sat and just kind like a field of grass. It was a good December day up in his lake house December. And Georgia's not cold. It's kind of cold, but you won't hear the sun. It's still beautiful. We went up on a weekday. So there's no one there we're on just kind of this like mountain side at his lake house. And we just sat in a field for like seven hours. And I mean, all cliches aside, you know, giggling Ooh or funny.

And then of course, you know, the, you see the trees breathing and all that good shit and that's all right. That's all well and good. But I remember like the overwhelming thought I had. So mind you that first day, my sophomore year of college, when I got way too high and realized I was fucked holding my beer, I gotta be a doctor. And then I just did it for four years. I had that almost like a deja VU of that. But this time it was the opposite. It wasn't out of fear.

There is this thing that was like, I just remember like the overwhelming feeling. I didn't hear a voice, but it was like a voice was telling me, like, life can be love and it's not some idyllic. Let's all hold hands in a field and, you know, form a Colt and fuck each other. Like, no, that's not realistic. Those always turn into communes, which turn into communisms or they turn into mass suicide calls. I'm not, I don't have any, I don't have any false notions about those. Right. What it was just like, and by the way, cut me off at any point.

If, if, if I'm born yet, not at all, man,

Speaker 2 (10m 27s): This is awesome. Thank you for sharing.

Speaker 1 (10m 29s): Yeah. So it was like, life just doesn't have to be this. There's like non-stop grind where, you know, you're in the gym. When the workout gets easy, it's time to dial up the weights. Like the gym is supposed to be hard. That's why you're going. But if I would study all day and still have straight A's, that'd be like, something's wrong because I should be studying until exhaustion. Like, no, you, you, you studied. You're finished now go have fun. No, I need to keep working.

And I kind of had that realization that like, life can be love. And so unlike college, where it got way too high and I was like, I want to be a doctor. There was actually a path, right? You go out, you go to your advisor, take the classes you got to take, and you can study nonstop. There is an endpoint. You can see it on horizons three years away. I got to do X, Y, and Z to get it. And it's difficult, but I can do it. You can climb Mount Everest, but there is a sump. There is a path cool. I didn't even have a goal. I was just sitting there and I was like, I want to be my own boss.

Still work hard, but be happy. And so with that, I sent a letter to the university of Miami Miller school of medicine for 15,000 students applied and a hundred got in. And I said, Hey, thanks for no thanks. It's all my mom, dad and girlfriend, they're all like, oh fuck. And you know, and, and then a couple months later, my older, my older brother took his life. So it's like, that was really now at that point, I was like, well, I just don't, I'm not in a mental place to go to medical school.

So that was great. That was all well and good. So my first thought was like, I think I want to go to pharmacy school because we know what I want them to go to medical school. I wanted to be an anesthesiologist. And I was like, oh, I can still go study drugs. That's cool. Got into pharmacy school. And I was like, Hey, thanks. But no, thanks. I think I want to go to online pharmacy school. So now another year passed, got an online pharmacy school. And I was like, God, I just don't want to do this. Thank you. So everyone's kinda like what the fuck. This point I've been kind of been doing a lot of drugs, clonazepam taking tons of like NyQuil at night.

Drinking just did stimulants during the day, gained a lot of weight, really not taking care of myself, doing like delivery jobs. Like, all I wanted to do is just like sit in a bed with a ball. Like, and so I was going farther and farther down. And then like, I kind of broke off the path of like, life can be love. And I was just like, fuck it, self medication. And fell way down in a slog became very suicidal summer 2016, moved home to my parents' house in Maryland.

And that was like a five-year long rebirth. Like not long after that girlfriend broke up with me. Don't blame her at all. How's it going piece of shit. All my friends lived in Georgia, kind of lost touch with all of them really just lived with my parents at 26, like a fucking loser, doing therapy, getting sober exercising, and like an absolute arrogant piece of shit at the bottom of the bottom, when that fear should kick in and you go out of cash and just go back to medical school.

I was like, no, I still want to be my own boss. You know, Jesus Christ. And so like, I just, I was like, I want to do writing. And then like did that for like six months. So I was like, I want to do comedy and did that for like six months. Like I wanna do video editing. I want to, I tried to make my own, like the onion. I tried to make like my own onion, kind of like satirical news, like site that didn't work picked up Photoshop and actually stuck with that for like three years. Got really good self-taught but it still just wasn't panning out.

And I don't remember exactly what was the catalyst for starting the podcast, but it wasn't the first time that thought had popped up. It had come up before, like years prior. I want to do it with some friends, but you know, I didn't have, they don't want to do a, I don't want to go it. And at that point I had sort of started to, I was very hesitant of going balls deep into anything, because I didn't want to go, even though it was in a bad spot, I also didn't want to go back to where I was is pre-med because I was miserable that work ethic, that psychopath psychopathic work ethic was miserable.

And so it was kind of like Pavlovian. Like I had almost associated that with negativity. It's not that I wasn't capable of it as I've clearly show, it was just like, I don't want to go down that. And then I kinda, it just, it kind of dawned on me. It was like, like there are things it's rom Doss would say, he's like, you can be meditating and be a spirit of light and communing with the gods. That is no reason to not know your zip code. Like you live in reality. And I always loved that. Cause it's like, like mushrooms, great meditation, love, earth, everything.

How you paying rent dipshit. Right. And I had been avoiding that for awhile. I was like, oh, it'll just work out. No, it did not. It didn't just work out the narrator. It did not. And I, I don't know if it's maturity or it's just travel failure and I'm glossing over this. But my, like I was at home for five years, five fucking years of no friends, no partying, no social life, no sex of nothing. Just fucking living with your love. My parents to death, go try living with your parents from 26 to 31, you can pull your fucking head.

Right. All the while having no prospect, it wasn't even like when I'm going. I had no idea when anything was going to work out. And so starting a podcast, I don't remember what the catalyst was. I just had a macro. I'm really trying to remember. Like, I mean, I always joke and say, I, I, I had started watching Rogan when he first started in 2011. Like, and I love her again. I was like, oh, I'm smarter than him. I could do this. Like, I, I, I joke about, I fucking love her and he he's, he helped me so much in college, but I just remember kind of like, it was, I remember it was December 12th, 2019.

And I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna kind of want to just like talk to people. I know I can talk to people. How hard could this be? And I just started, I did, like at first I was like, let's take it easy. I did one episode a week after like five episodes. I was like, I was like, oh, wait, I'm in charge. I can interview anybody I want. And so I would just go and read it and like find a guest like, oh wait, I started working harder and harder and harder. I remember what started, sorry.

Thanksgiving of 2019. I was with my cousin, Chris, up at my aunt's house. My family's all together. And he was just drinking. And he and I were sitting on like a couch. We were joking about. We were joking about like, what if we just went and hijacked a cruise ship and, and, you know, wherever you hijack the cruise ship, or we drove it into like an island, like out in the middle of the Pacific. And we would just create our own society. When new warlords would be arriving with food and water and medicine, we would take over the local peoples, but we'd be too small on the map for the us to really care.

And we would just kind of become warlords and I was sober and he was shit faced. And we had this conversation for like an hour and a half and his fiance was on like speaker phone, just kind of listening to us. And at the end of it and like her New York accent, she was like, that was fantastic. You guys should do a quite yet. And so me and my person, you started a podcast called warlords. We did like five episodes. And naturally I was like, let's do two episodes a day. And they're like, yo, let's do one episode a week.

And I was like, I was like, we should interview this guy. And they're like, no, let's just have fun. And so after like five episodes, I was like, I love y'all. I'm going to start my own and just was off to the races. And I mean, from there till now is kind of just been like one, like blur, just working harder, getting guests, improving the audio, the camera, the visual, the lighting, uploading to multiple platforms, trying to find, hone my mess.

Now you messaged my ability to talk more know when to cause one to not when to have this. When is it a very serious, when can you Dick around? When can you just all these things and then starting to do like, almost like news things, because there are topical things, but you don't want to just do news because then there's no relisten value, right? You can't go back and listen to a newscast from a year ago. It's old. You, you know what happened. So like sure, you can cover things happening, Ukraine, but you also want to like have on authors, who they're, what they're talking about. Like that episode holds up five years from now. Cause you're talking about like history of world war II or something.

And it's just been this spiraling maniacal. I'm just allowed to dump all of my, my work into it. It's, there's nothing worse than when you beat a video game because you're like, fuck, I maxed out my character. Like just go three comp plan Wildlands. Again, my guy is a Demi guy. He has maxed out. He has an optical camouflage, a suit on, he has a sniper rifle that can one-shot helicopters.

He can call and rebel support. He can call on mortars. All my weapons are maxed out silenced. High-speed I'm spawning a mile above enemy bases. I'm scanning shit in thermal. I'm knocking out motherfuckers. I'm EMP and the generators taken down the alarms blocking off the entrances mortar fire here, hop on a mini gun there, eat a Dick. Like it's great. But I beat the game. There's nothing else to fucking do. I can't level up. I can't call in missiles. There are no missiles. And I maxed out, so I have to go to another game.

And then you do that and you play dress cars and Yon Lee on lock everything or ACE combat to the point where you've got like the, the, the area 51 DARPA, the hypersonic strike aircraft. And it's great. And it's fun. But then you beat the game on expert. You get every achievement, you unlock every skin now what, nothing. There's nothing to do now. So you have to move on to the next game.

Speaker 0 (20m 48s): You know what you do right there, like right. When you beat the game, you write a letter to the medical school and say, I'm not going to do it. I'm going to move in with my parents.

Speaker 1 (20m 56s): Yeah. That's what you fucking do you say, oh yeah, I don't want I'm done.

Speaker 0 (20m 60s): Does that, like that? That's a full pattern right there though. Right? And you see that as a pattern. You're like, I beat the fucking game. Right? When I went to college, why should I keep playing? I can do it online. Why should I keep playing?

Speaker 1 (21m 8s): Yeah. That one's a little different in that medical school is, is pre-med on steroids. So you could have kept going. And then after medical school, there's residency, which is medical school on steroids. And after residency is fellowship. And then after that is becoming like a practicing doc. So like that game could have kept going. I just, wasn't happy with that one, but what I love about this and it's probably speaks more than anything is I don't think there's a ceiling on this. I can work.

You know, one of the great, a great book that also led to me not going to medical school was called house of God by Samuel sham. And it's a pen name, but it's a guy that was in Harvard medical school and Harvard residency in the seventies. And it's just the abject depravity. There was no rules back then they could work residents like 120 hours a week. They were smoking meth and closets. They're fucking the nurses that are all on value them. And again, ketamines, and they're, they're taking morphine and shit there. They were so fucked up and just like zombies, one guy killed himself.

He jumped off the roof. Like this shit was insane. And, but there's one guy in the book. I forget it. I think, I think they called him fats. Cause he's just a fat guy, but he was like a brilliant, brilliant kid. And you know, the kind of kid that could study for an hour and beat everybody and he asked him, he's like, fetch, why don't you just go become like an investment banker or something? Cause he was gunning to be like a surgeon so he can make the most money. There are too fat. You could go be a billionaire. And he was in his answer. He was like, I'll never beat medicine.

He was like, it's the most advanced Rubik's cube. You can never understand at all. You can never understand what every protein is doing. What every cell is. There always be a disease that evades you. I can sink my teeth into this forever. And that's kind of how I feel about this podcast is I have all my own. I gotta break a hundred subscribers, gotta break a thousand. You gotta break 10,000. Right now I'm at 10,566. Okay. I gotta get to 10,567, 5,085, whatever the fuck.

10,000, 20,000, 30,000, 50,000, a hundred thousand million, 10 million. Gotta keep going. I want to be okay. I got it. I want to beat Rogan. Okay. Well who's above Rogan and gets Pewdie pie. Okay. I want to get past Poodie by like I want to get to, I want to get to a billion subscribers. Well then what? I don't know, but then you can just keep going higher and higher and there is no ceiling. You can get to a point where you start like affecting real change in the world. You know, like Rogan, isn't just observing. He, he changes them. People come on and like it changes the narrative. Well I've already interviewed guys for Congress and stuff and I've helped them like get in touch with other people.

So I'm gonna get very small scale. I'm already kind of poking and prodding the world. I'm like, well, w w what's the upper limits of this? Of course my mind. Isn't like, oh, I just want to like share and subscribe. I'm like, if I do this for 20 years, can I affect like the geopolitical arrangement of countries on the planet? It's the best game ever. I think that maybe answers your question a little bit about myself. That was one, the 25 minute rant.

Speaker 0 (24m 18s): That was awesome, man. That might be one of my favorite brands so far. I think it spoke volumes of your character and your personality and why it is that you do the things you do. And it seems to me that the beginning Photoshop, the comedy, the editing, these are all like your freshmen, sophomore and junior year of podcasting. Like you've incorporated all of those things into what you do now and probably helped accelerate where you're at right now. I also think it's fascinating that, you know, as someone who likes to talk to people and enjoy his conversations, when you're doing what you're doing, you're forced to have multiple conversations in your head while you're talking to someone because you want the content to be, well, you want it to be received.

Well, you're watching for pauses and facial tics and oh my gosh, it's the eyes going to like that? Or, and that in itself, for someone who has ADHD or add or bipolar or any of these things is really fun because you're like, okay, now I can focus because I got seven things going on and I finally feel comfortable, you know? So it's, it's awesome to hear about that. Let me ask you this one. So you have had so many great guests on your podcast. The first people, the first one of the youngest men, I think the youngest, Charlie Kirk, was he the youngest man to walk on the moon,

Speaker 1 (25m 34s): The moon

Speaker 0 (25m 34s): Charlie duke. You've had the, the banker from Switzerland, Brad Bergenfield, great podcast

Speaker 1 (25m 43s): Banker. That book is fucking great too.

Speaker 0 (25m 45s): It is George Webb. Who's I think one of the most underrated journalists in the world right now, he's on often you've got Peter Duke. You have so many inner Mike Ford. I really enjoyed that one yesterday. You have so many great people on there. What have you noticed a difference in who you are Tommy Carrigan, since you began talking to these people and having interesting and you know, some might even say politically changing conversations with people. You've had a lot of in-depth stuff with a lot of professional intelligent people.

Can you see the changes in yourself that you sort of having these conversations

Speaker 1 (26m 20s): And myself? It's definitely harder because it's a, you know, it's like when you're losing weight or building muscle, you'll hear yourself in the mirror every day. You never see the change, but then you look at a picture from yourself, six months apart and you're either like, Jesus, I got fat. Or you got like, fuck. Yeah, you can kind of see like my job bone again. Yeah. Cool. That's hard. I imagine I can just go back and watch an earlier, probably see some glaring differences in terms of like me in terms of like how I present. I try to swear less.

I'm much more confident in who I am now. I have no problem. Just being like, well, you know, respectfully disagree instead of like, yeah, I'll suck your Dick. I agree to disagree. Not in a disparaging way. I try to not just come balls out with my opinions right away. It's definitely humbled me. And that you cannot interview so many intelligent people who holds such wildly different political beliefs than me and not sit there and go, maybe I don't know everything.

You know, I'm a conservative guy. I like Trump. When you interview Richard Rhodes, a Pulitzer prize winning author in his eighties. And he is the antithesis of that. And he, and he's a liberal leaning guy. You don't go it there's, nobody's talking about it. And you go, huh? We both got to the, we both got to the top of the mountain. We took different paths that doesn't make his path wrong. You know, it's very easy to look at someone that you don't like and don't respect and go own the libs or own the conservatory.

But when you interview like a wildly intelligent person, progressive person, and then you find out that they have the exact opposite political views as your own. If you're a retard, you go through the stupid. If you have half a brain cell, you go, okay. Maybe we just see the world differently. Maybe he has a piece of information that I don't have that if I had I'd see his viewpoint. And then maybe he gives you the information you go, oh, we're looking at the same swath of colors. This is one analogy I always use. You know, your liberal, your, your blue, your conservative, your red.

It is possible that the red guy has never seen the color blue. And if you showed it to him, he might go, oh, that's me and vice versa. But there's also a point where you both are, have the full color squad. You know, like one of those like Sherman Williams paint things, and he'd go, yeah, no, I can see all the colors. Now you see all the colors. I just like red. I just like blue. And if you're a mature adult, you go, oh, we just see the world differently. You know, I'm from new England. I don't really, I don't really pay attention to sports, but let's just say I like the red socks.

My, my uncle's a brilliant investor. He's from the Bronx. He likes the Yankees. Is he stupid? Sure. He can make . Is he objective stupid? No, he's wildly successful and wildly wealthy and a respectable individual. Am I bad? But I don't think I'm a bad person. Oh, we just liked different things. And when you look at it from that place, and this is why I think I get a lot of shit of, you know, fence riding, or you try to see both ways or, you know, it's just because there is a point where I remember my uncle said my late uncle before he passed, he was a Sergeant.

And he goes, if you're smart, you should be smart enough to know how smart you're not. And like, so it's sure when I have on like the Delta force guys and you know, we're all, you know, making fun of sure. That's fun, it's goofy. And it's kind of the equivalent of having a beer. I'll just talk and shit. But no, there was a reason why I still keep an open mind to the opposite viewpoint of my own is because my personal experiences of 854 episodes, you cannot interview so many different nuclear physicists, fictional authors guys that have walked on the fucking moon guys that have been in Delta force, guys that are in construction, who are, who work on submarines or who are a political pundit or working intelligence community or a professor at Yale or Harvard.

You can't talk to them all and then go, huh? Well, some of them are smart because they have my opinions. The other ones are getting there. No, you got to go, oh Jesus, it's a big old fucking world out there. And so to answer your question, how have I changed on the cursory delivery? I'm more confident in saying like, well, I agree to disagree, but you probably have a point, try to swear less, which I'm not doing, not at all because this is again, kind of read it. You'd be more relaxed, but I definitely go into everything now.

And I'm like, I might be wildly incorrect and that's, it's not, it's not scary. It's very, you know, people said like, I, you know, I don't want to put my opinion out there because in five years I'll look back and be like, oh Jesus Christ. I was so wrong. But to me, I'm like, dude, that's growth. Why would you not want to grow? You don't look back at yourself and go, oh, I used to be a twig. Like, no, you were twigging you went to the gym and now you're not a twig. Like, so I'll look back at all the episodes and be like, oh God, that was so, so that was so narrow-minded noted.

Don't be that person anymore. That's how I think I've changed. And I can only imagine in a year, I'll look back at this episode and just be shaking my head and be like that fucking moron thinking. He knows the whole world. And I can only hope a year after that I'll have this, because that means you're growing. So I don't know if that answers your question at all. If I even attempted to answer it, how have I changed it? Humble, more humble, not objectively. Unblind I'm a cocky, arrogant asshole.

Speaker 0 (32m 12s): It's hard to be humble when you're the best. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (32m 16s): I'm, I'm humbly the best. I'm the no, it's, it's realizing that you, you maybe don't have the big picture.

Speaker 0 (32m 25s): Yeah. And that is growth. One thing I've learned in my life that I've, I've made tons of mistakes just because you're good. At one thing doesn't mean you're good at everything. And one, one thing I've, I've found good about podcasts. And I'm curious if share, this is the ability to see that thing in the other. Like, if, if you have an opinion or you, you see that thing you recognize in the other person, and I may not be doing a great job of explaining what that thing is, but it's that ability to be objective for me.

It's that ability to see someone handle a conversation in a way that makes me jealous or it makes me want to grow like, oh, I see what happened there. This guy tried to corner him in a conversation. And instead of fighting out of that corner, he just pushed him right aside and helped him. You know? So I'm, I'm curious if you see that in the conversations, when you talk to people and you can see like, notice that thing and then incorporate it into your style.

Speaker 1 (33m 22s): Yeah. It's, it's very easy to, to be that sort of like humble. Like maybe, I don't know everything when you're talking to someone else who is like, you know, again, Richard Roach, he's not stupid. He's watched all episodes. He knows like I'm a Trump guy. You still comes on. Yeah. And when you, when you see that maturity in someone else, it rubs off on you. And you're like, oh, we're not doing politics. We're talking about the history of like, of nuclear weapons. Like that's, it's very easy to be humble and respectful when you're with another humble and respectful person.

What's the trick. The trick is when you're with some, some narrow-minded douchebag that goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I am the only right. One. We have the whole color swath. There's an objectively best color. That is where it's like your time to really put it into practice. And you just, you don't, you don't tell them, Hey, you should be humble and open minded. You just not just nod. And you try to be, you try to be like an open area for them to just, you know, it's like sometimes the best therapist, don't say a word.

They'll just let you say it all. And then you realize it on your own. Sometimes there's nothing else to do, but just nod. You can maybe try to gently nudge the conversation one way or another. Sometimes they're really stuck on something. There's nothing else to do, but just sure. Oh yeah, no yet I get it. Fuck. Yeah, I got that. Yeah. And then sometimes it's even fun to just start agreeing with them. It's like a mental exercise, not even the fuck with them, but I mean, truly it'd be like, fuck it.

Let's let's see where they're coming from. Let's see why Biden is the best president ever. Not even ironically, I'd be like, I'm going to fucking, I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid. Let's do this. And that's fascinating because when you do that, so if you come on right away, clashing, you know, Tommy, I don't like Biden. I'm having on Bob who likes Biden. You've immediately set up a friction. Even if you both are going to be very mature and humble about it and respectful, you've immediately set up this dichotomy where the other guys on the defensive, even though you're being very shaking hands, it it's still, you know, you're going at it and you might go, well, that's the best way to learn about the other guy's viewpoint is by being respectful.

And it's better than just yelling at them. Sure. But it's not the best way. The best way. Like the fucking real like judo black magic way is to not let them know that you disagree with them is to actually agree with them. Because then they think they're just talking to someone that has the same views as them. And when you're together like that, that's when you open up even more. And so you see what they really think as opposed to, as opposed to them, trying to give you these canned clean answers because we're having disrespectful debate.

No, you make them feel comfortable. Like you guys are just boys hanging out, having a drink and you guys agree with each other. You're much more candid with each other. And when you're more candid with each other, that is when you start to see what they really think. And when you get into what they really think, sometimes it actually makes sense. You go, oh, this guy, isn't just a dumb shit. Like he, oh, he has like a friend that, you know, our parent that died of this and they actually do, oh, this guy is actually a first-generation immigrant.

Yeah. Okay. It kind of makes sense how he looks at Trump's and goes, yeah, you're not fucking deporting my parents. I do get that. If someone tried to deport my parents. Oh, and then you start going, like, you drank the Kool-Aid as a joke, but now you're going, like I get it. And you're like, fuck. And you're like, you still believe your initial point, but that's how you start to like, see, the other person is not just so many disagree with, but you actually see, like, there was like a conscious individual with a life of experience behind the eyes. And you go, the exception is as long as no one's hurting each other.

If it's someone looking at me telling me like, why the Jews must die. I'm like, well, I just can't again. I can't like see where you're coming from. You're very well-spoken I'm sorry, Mr. Has blah. Like we cannot have this conversation, but as long as no one's hurting each other. Sure. I'll lean into it. Tell me why. Tell me why it's fair. And when you stop trying to beat them, but instead just detach and look at it as like a puzzle.

I just want to figure out who they are. And not even in some, like, I'm going to figure out who they are so I can do a gotcha moment. Fuck off. Just looking at it. It's like, pretend no one's watching. That's like one reason why, like I don't do a lot and I'm not shitting on you. I know you're doing a live. Most people do. That's why I'm not doing it live because I always want them. And I always let the person know it's not live because I want them to feel like, Hey, there is no, there's nobody watching. And there's always the beautiful offer of like, we don't even have to upload this episode.

And when you give them that and I always tell them, I'm like, Hey, record it too. Don't fucking, you know, don't, don't, don't rely on me to be objective when you do that. That is, that is the beauty in it. And I think for me, sort of answer your question, like, what do I see that in people? What makes me like jealous of that it's episode, 82 or 83 I had on this guy, John Romanello.

I don't really know anything about, he's like a, he's like an author. He's a, he used to be Arnold Schwarzenegger's personal trainer. He's like, you know, multi-med multimillionaire. Self-made dude looks like a male model. He's built as fuck. He's eloquent. Easy. Just looking at me like to fuck you. And I don't remember how I got in touch with them because this is a pretty well-known name. I think I got in touch with them before I even started the podcast. I think I'm going to just like send them a Photoshop. And he was like, oh, that's cool. This guy, we there couldn't be more politically than he and I, and I remember bugging him and bugging him and bugging him to come on the podcast.

And he probably looking at me and I'm screaming about Trump. I have four subscribers. He's probably like, what the fuck? But it was during COVID and he and his fiance were like, they were stuck like quarantining. And one day he was just like, fuck it I'll come on. And that guy w having never known me, you could just feel it coming off of them truly just like exuded love. And in his mind, he was probably like, this kid's retarded, but he sat there and like nodded and just let me go.

And we ended up like getting out of the topic of my brother. And that's the only time I've ever cried on a podcast. And it was just like the it's still to this day. It's my favorite episode. It's I'm in like a shitty orange jacket of above my parents' garage. It's echoing, it's on a Mac book. It's like for ADP resolution, it's horrible. The lighting's all fucked up, but it's still my favorite episode because that guy was just completely like present in the moment and like, let me like weave around and just like left on a loving note.

That's why, what I try to aim for. Yeah. Because another thing is, when you finally acknowledged that you don't have all the answers and maybe your political view, isn't correct. You stop looking at yourself as someone who should be responsible for like changing the world. You're like, well, why should I, what if I'm incorrect? You know, if I, if I have bad eyesight, like I shouldn't be the surgeon. You're right. I shouldn't fly air force one.

How right. You are, you know, like, oh, okay. So you look at it like, kind of like that is so when you stop, some people say, oh, that's apathy or that's digging your head. No, I don't think I'm empathetic. I think my interview show very otherwise very much otherwise. But when you take yourself off the pedestal of like, I know what is correct. It allows you to stop looking at things as adversarial. And I need to show this good. Why Israel? I to own the libs.

Oh, you go, you sort of become detached, but detached in the best way, because you're just, you're kind of okay with being completely incorrect. And it's a very, like, like the first moment of humility is like, after you listened to your first episode, you're like, that's what I sound like. You know? Like you never hear your real voice in real life because you're inside your ears.

Everybody else is outside. You're the only person hearing it from an angle that no one else can hear it from between your ears. You know, when you hear your voice for the first time you go, oh, she's asked what I sounded like when you see yourself, you're like, oh, and then like, all my, my, my thoughts are so stupid. That's like the, those are like the first hurdles of humility. And then you get over those and then you get over like bad podcasts and honor. There's so many hurdles of just like solely just tearing away the ego that like the closer you get to the center, you're just like, you're like, I kind of want to be proven wrong.

Like, it's, it's almost fun. You're like, cause I'm just trying to get to like the truth of whatever it is, whatever the world is, whatever the university is. And it's less of like, I have to have the right stamp or fuck. Should I go delete that video from a year ago? I said, no, you're just like, you're just trying to get close. When you're playing a video game and you keep failing emission, you don't go. I can't let anybody see that failure. Now you're playing with your friends drug. Okay. We tried that tactic. What if we shifted this one? Nobody's like laughing at each other.

You're just like, you're both trying to get to the objective knowing you finally get it. You fucking cheer. Know you have a new friend comes into, plays a video game. You don't laugh at them. You go, oh yeah, dude, that's a bitch of a fucking level. You figure it out though. So you stop trying to feed everybody and put a point in the w column and own somebody and screenshot. I mean, look at this idiot. I proved him a bit and you just start trying to like get to whatever the core of all of this is.

Yeah. I don't know if that answers your question.

Speaker 0 (44m 6s): Yeah. Perfect man. I like it. I, I think I once heard a really good quote that said the purpose of an argument is not to win or lose it's to solve a problem. Right. And like, that's such beautiful. Like that's really good relationship advice too. Because when you're in a relationship, you sometimes you're so heated or the kid's not sleeping or you got the fucking Bill's comment and shit's not going the way you want it. And we hurt the people closest to us. But sometimes you find yourself in an argument with somebody you love, or even on a podcast or a friend or something, and you're just arguing and all of a sudden, you think you have to win.

And it's like, wait a minute. This is a person I care about. And if you're on a podcast with somebody, you care about them somewhat. So the, the objective should be to rise above right and wrong in, in, I think so many of us get caught right there. But yeah, I think that the objective should be to solve a problem or at least shed light on a point that is opposite of yours. And I, I sometimes I think that the Trump versus Biden, a lot of those people are the same people, but the mirror image of one another,

Speaker 1 (45m 11s): The same guy, damn people. Absolutely. What do we all want? Well, what do wants want an unarmed black guy to get shot? If there are people that want that, fuck them. Nobody wants to be thrown off health care. Nobody wants America to have a weak military. Nobody wants the borders to be raped. We just, we're all looking at it in different ways. Some people are going, Hey, we got to let them in other group of senior, we gotta let them in. There's gotta be a process that people are going, no, there's suffering. Just let them in. Some people are going. Yeah. The reason why we need these taxes.

So we have better schools. Other people say, no, no, no, we gotta have less. So we can have private, but what are we still wrong? We still want a good school for your kid. The police should be more armed. They should be less harmful. Well, what do we all want? We want there to be fucking less crime brought. Just trying to get there in a different method. That's all it is. It's, we're all trying to approach it in a different way. They're all the same people into what you said about shedding light on a problem. Just yesterday. I had on a Ron Miller and Dell Comstock to OTA guys. Like they always say a J they technically have to, I can say CIA, the tip of the spear in black ops.

And they kind of went on this whole thing about like, why America's fucked. And although I kind of agreed with them towards the end, I was like, well, I'm going to take the devil's advocate position because otherwise we're all just sitting here, jerking each other off. And there's nothing of value there. Let's say you let's say you love Tommy's podcast. And I love Tommy's podcast. We sit here and go. Yeah, it's great. It's perfect. You don't have to watch the episode because you already know what it is. They're agreeing with you like the color blue.

I like to call the blue. The sky is blue. The water is blue. That's what I'm saying. Great. Happy. You're happy. There's no point in watching it. Nothing's being tackled. Nothing's being approached. That's fine. That's fine. But it's nothing worth watching. So they're going on about like, why it's all over. And I was like, all right, I'm now going to take a devil's advocate position and explain maybe why it wasn't. But I do that all the time because right. You and I are talking about now to shed light on a problem.

If you can't solve the problem, at least shed light on the problem, it's all well, and good to say. The only way to do it is to lead by example. Because if you say, Hey guys, let's maybe all like drop our egos and be vulnerable, right? Yeah. Who's first go fuck yourself. Why you have to say, Hey, I really fucked up here and I don't necessarily believe this, but what if XYZ, normally someone else will go, well, he kind of made the fool of himself first, so fuck it. I'll you know? Yeah.

I'll be the next floor. It won't be as bad as the first full because otherwise what is the, and the, and that's the thing it's like, every conversation doesn't have to be a, a project that has a solution like that it's specifically like for podcasting, like I'm going up to New Hampshire to like visit my family for 4th of July. Yeah. I'm going to have conversations with my brother. And we're just going to talk about his dog. Like there's no, and that's perfect. It doesn't need to be like, well, what have we concluded today about Southeastern it's okay to it's it's more than, okay.

I have a gaming channel. There's nothing of value on the gaming channel. People are like, you should try to improve it. I'm like, no I've worked on TPC. My gaming channel is just it's that fucking shit on the floor that I sweep up and go, here's another channel. There's nothing of value. The audio is terrible. There are long breaks. You think the P break from TPC are bad. I'll fucking just leave the gaming channel for an hour. It's just rolling. I'll be like, I need to go get food, just come back an hour and a half later and be like, all right. We're we're we just start playing. And that's also okay.

Right. It doesn't have to be comedy trailer with alternative ideas. Like no, sometimes you can just be like, you know, do you think that as often Italians fucking each other in the ass, like maybe, I mean, I don't know why they wouldn't let's start, let's start that fake news. I'm down with that. There's nothing of value coming from there and that's fun. So I also kind of wanted to make that like, not every conversation has to be like, cause that's the pre-med mindset. Everything has to be work. No, no, no. It's okay.

Just sit there and just talk nonsense with your friends. I'm talking about specifically is for the unique position that I'm in relative to all people and that I am a subset, a subsection of, of society that specifically has a camera and a microphone to have these conversations, right. I'm going out to get Dr. Alone. Cause Bob on, at working at smoothie king, doesn't get to ask him these questions and everything you see on the news is can, so instead you bring them on and you're like, it's a Nazi.

You just like, nobody else was asking them this. And I ask him that CNN. Cool. And how many interviews have you seen a guy on the moon there? You're just like, Hey, can I just ask you, why do you freak out when you're up there? And he was like, yeah, you're just like, I'm on the moon. And I'm like, I thought that's what it would be like. So like for the very like thing that I am in and where I am producing videos for people to watch, I do think that you have to almost, there is almost sort of like a moral or not to sound some high-minded Jack off, but there is sort of like a, you got to present it a certain way.

And again, as much as you get shit on, I mean, I started watching Joe Rogan, December, 2011, right after he started the back. When he was just a fear factor guy, like the amount I've seen him change and just like allow other ideas to float out there and not pigeonhole himself into one thing. And you can tell when he disagrees with some real big sure, sure. And people are like, yeah, we'll use a fencer.

I'm like, Hey, there's a reason why he's the biggest thing on the planet. It's almost like the free market of the globe that decided we like it when we can respectfully share ideas. And then on the same term, you can also have an episode where they just get shit faced and talk bullshit. I really know where I'm going with this now. Hey, do you care if I go to the bathroom or if I handle

Speaker 0 (51m 39s): It brother handle

Speaker 1 (51m 40s): It. I was going to say take it over, but your pod, yes. You have a fucking warrant.

Speaker 0 (51m 44s): So there we go. Ladies and gentlemen, we've been talking to Tommy Carrigan here and, you know, there's some parts that we haven't got into yet. He was for those that don't know he was censored from YouTube. You know, he, he was one of the first people to come out with Dr. Malone and talk about the mandates and COVID and all these things that, you know, were kind of taboo to talk about. And so I think he had, we'll get them to talk about when he comes back. But I think he had 5,000 subscribers.

Does this show that is, you know, one of these things you're not supposed to talk about lo and behold comes back and ends up getting the YouTube email or whatever it is that comes that way. And it says, Hey, we're gonna have to let you go. So I think there's something that happens there when you're faced with adversity and potentially even a paycheck or something you're building. And you come up against this obstacle that says, okay, well, you can't do it from here. So I think that there's a question of integrity and responsibility there.

You ever think to yourself, like what would I do faced in a situation where I don't have, or I have to make a choice? You know, I think when you get to that particular point, you have to make a choice. Am I going to do what they tell me to do? Or am I going to take the paycheck and be censored? You know? And we got them back here. We'll ask them, tell me, I was just telling the audience a little bit about, you know, you start this channel you've made these moves all of a sudden, bam, we're smacked with COVID. We've got Dr. Fowchee blowing us up. We've got propaganda all over the place.

You've got 5,000 your channels beginning to blow up. And then you get smacked with a sensor notice and told, Hey, you got to shut up about this stuff. We're going to cancel you. I got to think that that is something that changes the way you, you run your game. When you think about that.

Speaker 1 (53m 39s): Yeah, absolutely. And that's, you know, I always try to, I always try to explain like, like the kind of like how big that was in my life. I mean, relatively, I mean, you're, most people in the world are starving and don't have access to clean water. I get the relativeness. But when I tell people, I'm like, yeah, dude, I got censored. They're like, yeah. I mean, whatever. But I think maybe you and your listeners can kind of get a grasp for it.

I have now told you from August on my birthday, August 7th, 2010, when I got to high in the frat house, till now you see the immense weight and importance in like dodging suicide and like moving out of my parents' house and reestablishing a life through the podcast. You see that it's not just like, oh, it's just a pet project. This is a cool thing that you're doing. Like you chose to get censored. Like, no, this was, this was, you know, I'm on an island in the middle of the ocean.

And for five years I've been constructing a raft out of bottles and, and coconuts and shit. And it's finally working. It's not just a little toy I made. It's like, I'm going back to the main land. You know, I've been stranded at home either. So beyond important that to then immediately be like, how like have like a moral stress test.

Yeah. Like I just want to interview these guys. I just wanna talk about election fraud. If an, if it did or did not happen, I just want to talk about COVID. Is it, or is it not lab made? Are the vaccines good or are they bad or somewhere in between? Are there alternative treatments or are they not the, and then not just speculating and going. Okay. Let's actually get voices of reason on this because I am not a doctor as much as I could jerk myself off to the fact that they got no medical school. I'm not a fucking doctor. So we get on doctors and then you start to get censored.

And it's like, oh, this sort of abstract idea of free speech. You're like, oh fuck. I actually have to, like, it's just supposed to be this thing that you see, like inscribed on old statues under Ben Franklin or some shit. And you're like, oh fuck. I actually have to like, stand up for it. Like someone else's stand up for it. It's like, no, that's just like a personal thing. Like, if you want to see change, you have to be at you can't fuck off. You can't, you can't kick it up to someone. That's just that's pussy shit. It's like, okay.

One is just like my own sort of hardheadedness like, don't tell me I can't do this. I remember when I went and saw my advisor the day after I got too. And she said, maybe you should think about something else because maybe you're not cut out for, to get in a medical school. And also, alright, fucking remember, this is how it is. You can't do that. It's like, no, thank you. I will fucking visceral. I will bulldoze the world in your name. Like

Speaker 0 (56m 41s): The first person I'll show.

Speaker 1 (56m 42s): I love fucking cocky. This person even know I'm trying to help out the student, what are they not set up?

Speaker 0 (56m 50s): Right. I know the part in your head. Or like, okay, fuck. This person did. How dare you?

Speaker 1 (56m 56s): Well, no, but so there's like that aspect. Just fuck off. Don't tell him that. I can't talk about that. Tied in with like a weird thing where I was like, I also do respect that there are private. This is where again, we're live in the gray area. Like I'm not just like, oh fuck that. But I'm like, it isn't a private company, but that is conservative. It is a price. It's very much a private. I still say that you are like, dude, you're a total cock for them. I'm like, they are a private goddamn company. I still, whatever. What is June 30th?

June 30th, 2022. I'll still say it's been almost a year since I was banned. And they are an evil Marxist piece of shit, but there are private one. All right. And they are. And if you, and again, that's sort of like a contradiction where like conservatives will be like, they need to be broken up. No, they don't. They're a private fucking company. You just don't like them because they're not on your side. Now you eat a Dick. All right. So in 10 years, when rumble is the biggest and the liberals, don't like it, you can still say and earnestly say, Hey, it's a private company. If you don't defend it, now you can't defend it in the future or in the past.

But that also goes for the value of free speech. So I personally have to go, okay. In as a private company, I also don't like the idea of censorship, which means I have to keep speaking the truth. And so it was like very so, you know, the importance of the podcast. To me, it's not just a thing. It's like, this is my venue out of my life and having failed thing after thing, after thing, after thing, Photoshop writing, blah, blah, blah.

You're always stuck at home. Almost moving out, stuck at home because a year after year after year, after year, after year after year, you go crazy. When you're 18, you're ready to move out. I was fucking in my thirties. You ha you come to this thing where it's like, you have to see where you stand and there's, I mean, there's nothing wrong with maybe you're just a gaming channel. You're like you, I don't give a fuck. That's fine.

Whatever But you have a temptation to say, I'll bend the knee now Because I need to move out. I need to grow the podcast and when bigger and I can fight back. That's what I'll do it. Okay. Yeah. That's that's a nice little lie. You tell yourself, right? Yeah. I'm going to get to it tomorrow. I'm we can go to the gym tomorrow. We'll stop eating shit today. I'm going to stop eating shit tomorrow. Tomorrow, we're cleaning the apartment tomorrow. We're doing this tomorrow. We're changing our habits.

You're fucking not. Do you have a new year's resolution start today? June 30th. Seriously, if you have any, because if you can't do it today, you cannot do it on January 1st when it's cold and it's right after Christmas and you're hung over. How the fuck you haven't used resolution started today. Not even tomorrow. You started today because if you can't start today, when today comes, you'll never be able to do it. So go fuck yourself. So I was like, you know, Rogan should do it. Or, you know, well, he did do it because he's signing this, you know, Spotify deal Pewdie pie should do it.

Or, and then you're like, Hey, you have to, you have to operate now in this. Cause if you're making a hundred million dollars, why would you not have the same logic? Hey man, I'm making fucking killer cash right now. I'll wait till I'm a billionaire. No, you never will. You never will. So it's like laying a foundation. You have to do it correct now.

And I just decided, I was like, when I have nothing and I'm climbing to build this podcast, I still have to stand where I stay. Despite as open as I am about agreeing to disagree hearing years, blah, blah, blah. It's a very on the surface, appears a very relaxed kind of laws, a fair thing. There is a foundation and it's one. You can't be hurting anybody physically hurting.

You're allowed to call someone to return. I don't give a shit, no physically hurting or calling for violence, but also we'll never censored anything. We'll never censored anything. And if I'm not going to do that now, how in the everliving fuck am I going to do it? When all of a sudden I'm having cash dangled over my face. So I just kinda was like, maybe the sinks, the ship. I was like, fuck it. I'm just gonna, it really was like some sort of like Japanese suicide bomber.

Like I knew I was getting bad and I got the second suspension and I was like, Ryan, he came, I'm not going to stop interviewing these people. I got the third. And I was like, I know the next one is it. I know the next one's it. But it was like, I can't. I was like, I can't not. I also knew logically. It was like my first suspension was actually for election fraud. Now the move to COVID the fact that it went from one thing to two, when it goes to any topic that allows you to get suspension, he now knows censorships on the table when they add a second top.

But you now know that it's a, it's a potentially growing list, which you then have to assume has the potential to go to infinity. So maybe you're okay with shutting up about election. Maybe you're okay with shutting up about COVID it's going to keep going. Now I've been off of YouTube for almost a year, but there are certain Ukrainian war crimes that you will now. I didn't know this. You will get suspended. If you discuss, there are parts of the Ukrainian restaurant war that you can't discuss. So eventually you come to the past where you're going to have to stand up for it.

And from that point of view, my logic was also, well, let's just get new now. And it sucks to get nuked that 5,000. Well, what if I'm at 50,000? So at a certain point, it was like, Hey, it's like when you start to drive somewhere for vacation, you're about to drive for five hours and you're a mile down the road and you realized you forgot something. And you're like, just turn around. I know it sucks. Just turn around and get it because we're going to have to turn around either now or an a hundred miles just fucking turn around and you go back and you get whatever the fuck it is.

So that was a huge kind of test of who I was to me. And that's really all I gave it. Wasn't about like, everybody else look out moral and ethical, but it was like, for me, like I did it and I got suspended and I went to rumble. At that point, I had had like a hundred subscribers because I just been passively uploading. And you know, part of me wanted to blow my fucking brains out. But like the other part of me was like, I could sit back on like a Friday and have a beer and be like, man, at least I'm a real one.

Yeah, I know I did that. I don't give a shit. I know. I know that I am what I say I am. And now it took, it took a w so that was September 1st, 2020, no, 2021. So December 12th, 2018 to September 1st, 2021 is, I mean, was that in a year and 9 21 months, 21 months get the 5,000 subscribers in.

When are we now coming on? July, August, September right now, we're coming up on 10 months on rumble, 21 months, YouTube 5,000 subscribers, 21 months. When you do 5,000 subscribers or 5,000 subscribers, 350,000 views, 10 months on rumble, 10,500 subscribers, 2.9 million views. It's also worked out okay. Like what?

Normally that doesn't happen. You do the right thing. You can get fucked for it. In this case, I, I did the right thing and it's actually worked out wildly in my favor. Not even because of people are like, oh, he did the, no, it's just, I went to a place where that I wasn't getting like suspended and, and pressured and censored. So that was a gigantic turning point for me was like, oh, I'm willing to. And maybe that comes back to getting into medical school and then saying, it's turning around on the road trip.

I had gone four years into the road trip and said, I don't think I'm happy here. So let's just fucking mix this thing now. And that sucked, but who knows? Maybe that actually helped me let the channel get nuked. So I was like, what? 21 months? That's nothing. She spent five years at home. Shit took four years to get a medical school, a fucking good thing. And I think the first video I uploaded when I got banned from YouTube was just like a, it's like I bought a boat and like one rumble, like one rumble video.

It almost looks, I got fucking like Osama bin Ladin message. I'm just like staring at the camera. I remember saying, I like read off the stats where I was at the time. I was like, I have 109 subscribers. And I like looked at the camera and I was like, YouTube, I will fucking eviscerate you. I will come back 10 times stronger. And right now I'm at two times stronger, 10 to eight. I've got to come back a hundred times stronger. I don't really know if I answered your question or if that really was a question, but yeah, that was a huge turning point that I really don't think most people can understand like the weight of, because it wasn't just a, a YouTube channel.

It was like, dude, medical school, like heartbreak, losing a sibling to suicide. Like so many things were riding on this. And I can like happily and proudly say like, yeah, I still was like, no fuck censorship.

Speaker 0 (1h 7m 12s): Yeah. That's see. That's way more than everybody listening. I just want to point this out and maybe they'll agree or maybe they won't agree. And maybe you will. I think you will. It's more than a channel and it's more than a piece of work. It's a strategy for life am I, I think you're right. When you said you were in medical school and you went to five years before you turned it around and each time maybe you did writing for six months and then you turned around, but each time you're building muscle, you were building this experience to say, Hey, I can't keep get getting burned by the same fucking match.

I know it's fucking hot. I can't get burned by that again. And you finally get to a point where you're like, I've had enough, never again, I'm getting the, I'm fucking pulling myself out of this goddamn hole and we're going to make it happen. And I think you've told other stories about some huge wins that came from that by maybe seeking out certain guests that you're like, I don't even have a shot at this guest, but because you mentioned to them, Hey, I stood up for my values

Speaker 1 (1h 8m 11s): On YouTube. Yeah.

Speaker 0 (1h 8m 11s): Yeah. Can you share that story with some people

Speaker 1 (1h 8m 14s): Or, I mean, that's happened multiple times. Nice. So like, yeah. It's like, I got Dr. Malone the first time I got him, I was like just a fluke, but I remember like, he emailed me back the second time and I was like, he was like, Hey, I was like, would you think about coming on again? He was like, yeah, I can't find the link for the first one. So as the account was terminated and I was like, button thing about that is it was okay. That's the, that's the funny thing. Right. But I remember he was like, well, that's a badge of honor. And he was like, that'd be proud to come out yet.

And I was like, oh, mind you, this is still six months before Rogan had him on, I don't mind, four times for Rogan ever had him on. And the white house never called me out. There's no such thing as bad PR Rogan. I think he said it's like subscriber count doubled during the whole, like, COVID like attack on him. Not for me, but no, like that works. So Steve Kirsch, I'm sure you've heard that name.

That guy invented the mouse. He's like a billionaire, but he's like a huge voice up against this. He was on like the O G podcast with Dr. Malone and I'm Bret Weinstein. I got him on the only way I got him on, as he was like banned from YouTube, he was like this impressive. I was like, fuck. Yeah, man. Like now it's becoming more and more a thing where everyone's starting to get banned. But I was like, one of the original, just like, like kamikaze is, was just like, like Dick's out middle fingers up like Benjamin Franklin, like Thomas Jefferson eat a deck.

I'm out Eagle, like, you know, got banned. But that did work. Some other guys that have come on because of that, a big Richard Rhodes, he came on and he was just like, well, censorship's despicable. And I was like, indeed, it is all really all of the doctors, Dr. Macola, Dr. Freed, Dr. Nass, Dr. Perso, Dr. Merrick. I mean, Dr. Alibek head of the Soviet union bio weapons program.

Well, he came on before I got bad, but like all of these, all of these guys were like, oh yeah, no, like, okay. Yeah, I'll come on. They, they censorships. I mean like Yale and Harvard professors who are wildly liberal and don't agree with a goddamn word, I said, but they were like, Hey, like, you know, as like journalists, they're like, censorship is just deplorable and like, yeah, I'll come on. And I never knew that was gonna happen. I actually, in my like template email that I sent to potential guests, there's actually like the second half of it got an eyelash in the second half of it is like, why is the podcast not on YouTube?

Because like, you do have to address that because it's, it's a, it's a, it's a weird, you know, like star of David, you're kind of wearing. You're like, Hey, Hey, I'm not on YouTube. Like, no, I wasn't on there for like saying the N word I wasn't on there for like having a sweat because people have also asked that like, Hey, why aren't you on YouTube? Like, I, what I, what podcast am I throwing my name in with? Right. I won't say who, but several people, understandably. So I've been like, well, how come your band? Like, I need to know why your band do you need to send me that sort of why your band, which I completely get.

If he goes, who in their right mind gets banned from YouTube? Well, you send them the episode and they're like, that was it. And here hear that was it. It was like Dr. McCall talking about turmeric, like why I'm like, I don't know what I'm saying to you that when it's your Dr. Malone talking about peptides and they're all looking at like, where's the steak hot? And I'm like, I don't know, in Germany, but that's the thing is like, it is such a, it was such like a weird weight around my neck that like half of the email, like, it always starts with like, Hey, this is who I am.

This is why you should come out here. So notable. Yes I have. Then there's this giant bold disclaimer, like why isn't the podcast on YouTube? And you're like, well, I did this and I do this. And you have to, like, you tell them your credentials and be like, you know, I got into medical school and I was interviewing these doctors. And, but now no one really cares about that. Now they're just kinda like, yeah, that's cool that you got banned. So that's helped. I never, I always suspected, but now I know it wasn't also, it wasn't just censorship. It was also shadow banning and putting their thumb on the scale.

It makes no sense that in 21 months you get 350,000 views. And then on rumble in a third of the time on a platform with like 100th of the user base, I get 10 times the views. The math does not add up one, 100th of the user base. One third of the time, 10 times the views, no part of that adds up. Unless of course the only other conclusion is, oh, you were being shadow banned or you were being artificially suppressed.

So that's been a huge thing. And that's really helped me. It's like seeing the podcast actually grow, like seeing like the numbers growing, like in a free kind of market way. It's invigorating. And it allows you to work harder. You're really depressed when you're knocking out podcasts left and right. And you've been at 1,831 subscribers for 117 straight days. And you're like, how is this even possible? Just like the laws of averages, someone should have unsubscribed, right?

Shouldn't someone have stumbled upon it. So that's been a huge things. So it's, you know, it's a win for me. Like, I, I knew that I stood up for the right thing. It's a win. And that I got a lot of guests that I never would have gotten. It's a win for me. And that more and more people are getting banned. And now I get to say I was one of the OGs. And then it's really helped me in that the podcast is just growing because there is a reciprocal cycle where you, the podcast grows and you get invigorated to go get bigger guests.

And then the podcast grows more and you, you work harder and you know, the mornings aren't as tired and you're your, we work through it. It's, you know, anyone can work on the podcast when it's just banging left and right. And you're getting two subscribers on this guy and that guy, this guy, you don't see, like the two years of just crushing Neil is just like, what am I doing? Fucking like apple school. I've gotten a medical school. What am I doing? Why am I interviewing a guy about laser printers on veer, parking garage?

And you're like, how powered would it be to kill myself in here? You just started. But it's sort of, and even now I'm not like happy with where it is because I want it to be bigger and better, but it's really been nothing but good has come out of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 0 (1h 15m 2s): It's just, that's, that's huge. I think it helps people to hear the story because for everybody that, that doesn't give up, there's probably a hundred people that do give up. And if you can maybe reach out and grab three of those people that are talented and be like, look, don't give up here because here's what can happen. If you're willing to push through your comfort zone and make things work, then this can happen. Here's a guy that did it, you know? And I, I think that younger people seeing this that'll be bigger and better hopefully than all of us.

At some point in time, you know, that's something to think about too. Tommy is doing what you're doing now. And podcasting, it kind of gives you a window into the past. That's visceral. Like you can see yourself talking to people a year ago or two years ago, and you can see it. It's a weird way to notice time.

Speaker 1 (1h 15m 53s): Yeah. Who else, who else has video documentation of themselves every day?

Speaker 0 (1h 15m 57s): Yeah. And it, like you said, it's, it's, it's also, it's a blessing and a curse because you're forced to look back and be like, oh God, did I really say that? Jesus Christ what a dummy. I can't even listen to it. Just turn it off, you know? And then you, but then on the same token, you're like, okay, here's, I'm going to do moving forward, which gives you this weird window into the future. And here you are right now talking to me this window, like a virtual window right now into your life that people are watching and being part of. So man, I could talk to you part of the two hours, Tommy, I'm super thankful that you came.

I got to go drive a truck right now for a good 10 hours, but I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (1h 16m 34s): You're in Hawaii.

Speaker 0 (1h 16m 35s): I am. I am.

Speaker 1 (1h 16m 37s): Oh, wait. I don't know why. In my mind, I immediately was like, can you drive for 10 hours straight in Hawaii? Thinking that it was going in a straight line? No, you're probably pulling things with the

Speaker 0 (1h 16m 47s): A ups driver. So I'll be delivering packages for this and that. And

Speaker 1 (1h 16m 51s): I'm trying to sit here talking about being smart. And then I'm like, you can't drive for 10 hours in Hawaii. No, you can. You can drive 10 hours in the town. If you just keep going back and forth. Come on Tommy baby steps.

Speaker 0 (1h 17m 4s): Sometimes the traffic here is like, I was born and raised in California in the 4 0 5. The five can be brutal, but sometimes in Hawaii it can take you four hours to go 40 miles. You just sit. Cause sometimes there's a, there's only a few arteries. And if one of them breaks, everybody uses this one. So the infrastructure here is, it is a very interesting place.

Speaker 1 (1h 17m 23s): I applied to med school in Hawaii thinking an interview.

Speaker 0 (1h 17m 27s): You should think about moving out here, man. Like I know it sounds crazy, but it wouldn't have fundamentally changed.

Speaker 1 (1h 17m 32s): That was actually the thing that was like on my mind for several years actually was moving to Hawaii. Just say like, fuck it.

Speaker 0 (1h 17m 38s): Yeah. But what a lot,

Speaker 1 (1h 17m 41s): My parents and family live in new England and I kind of want to be near them. I don't like the idea of like one day waking up and realizing they're 90 and they're gone, but I also kind of want to live in Hawaii. There's just this weird. I dunno.

Speaker 0 (1h 17m 56s): Well, I think it goes with some of the goals you were talking to Mr. Ford about yesterday, about some of the ideas of wanting to have all these things of like,

Speaker 1 (1h 18m 5s): Oh no, no. And then yes. And that's what it that's ours. No, that's one of the things was like shirking medical school shirt and all this stuff you start to like, get your, like, as you kind of come to terms with like, we're going for it. Yeah. Not like, well, I'm going to put one toe in and maybe if the channel works, when you're finally like, fuck it, move home, loses the girlfriend, lose the friends, lose autonomy, get banned from YouTube. You have nothing. I mean, I have no pets. I have no girlfriend. I have no kids. I have no

Speaker 0 (1h 18m 32s): Responsibilities.

Speaker 1 (1h 18m 33s): I have a 700 square foot apartment. I am free to do whatever I want. And like a retard. I sit in a room next to her, you know, a mile from a Walmart podcast. And that's what I do with my freedom. But like, there is part of me that's like, I have to go just like, what do, what do you do? You're like, why I would go for like fame for what you knew, where else would you live fucking Hawaii? Like you, you know, you kind of reached this like almost terminal cancer, point of mind where you're like, it's all over tomorrow.

So

Speaker 0 (1h 19m 5s): Do it come out here. I hope you don't like hot, aggressive, exotic girls. Cause they're out here. So probably don't want you probably don't like,

Speaker 1 (1h 19m 10s): Because I hate the sun and I hate the heat. So I will be sitting in like an air conditioned apartment in Hawaii, but there would be a cool flex about being in Hawaii. One of my friends moved out there from college and I'm fucking jealous. I don't know. They're somewhere in new England logo,

Speaker 0 (1h 19m 25s): Come visit. You can do your pocket. You could come out here and do like a visiting podcast where I cam I'm on location today for a week. You know what I mean? And

Speaker 1 (1h 19m 32s): Then it

Speaker 0 (1h 19m 32s): Was over from there.

Speaker 1 (1h 19m 34s): I'll get eaten by a shark.

Speaker 0 (1h 19m 38s): Well, you already messing with all the geese all the time. You might as well start flexing.

Speaker 1 (1h 19m 42s): It's militia dude, militia. I keep up every day on Twitter, just so I want the FBI to have to constantly be checking in on me because I'm using the term militia. They see a guy that constantly posted about a militia and it's also interviewing CIA operatives and I'm making some interns life. Hell boosting again. There's some guy that's like, what does it mean? This is calm. It's just me walking around like waiting for the caffeine to kick in before the gym.

Yeah.

Speaker 0 (1h 20m 16s): That's classic.

Speaker 1 (1h 20m 17s): What are the docks? What does that stand for?

Speaker 0 (1h 20m 20s): Exactly. He's talking to these, who's talking to these guys. Did he steady make any signs? You see his hand? Was there a signal? And then what kind of code words of you?

Speaker 1 (1h 20m 26s): What are they doing? What are they does it mean when the geese flies at midnight? What does that

Speaker 0 (1h 20m 30s): Mean?

Speaker 1 (1h 20m 31s): It means not growing bread is on the way to the gym. I'm going to need to call it a militia.

Speaker 0 (1h 20m 38s): It's so awesome.

Speaker 1 (1h 20m 39s): Just so it pings their servers, but yeah, I

Speaker 0 (1h 20m 41s): Will appreciate it, man.

Speaker 1 (1h 20m 42s): It was a pleasure coming on here. Please send me the link when it's up.

Speaker 0 (1h 20m 45s): Yeah. I'll send you all the stuff and the way I see it, everything we did on here is as much yours as mine. So I'll give you all this stuff. Feel free to clip it or whatever you want to do. It's yours is as much mine and I, I hope I hope you'll come back again sometime and we can help solve the world's problems.

Speaker 1 (1h 20m 59s): I love to, man. I love to have you on mine. That would be fun as fuck when you shoot the shit. And

Speaker 0 (1h 21m 2s): I'd love to,

Speaker 1 (1h 21m 3s): As you can tell, there's truly no agenda. It's just,

Speaker 0 (1h 21m 7s): Just such is life. Right?

Speaker 1 (1h 21m 8s): Just stick it out, dicks out and just let her run. What's over your shoulders at a 3d printer.

Speaker 0 (1h 21m 16s): Yeah, it is. It's a, it's a 3d printer over there. My, my daughter is in second grade. And so you know what better way to show her the limb limitless possibilities by, Hey, do you want to print? You gotta, we got a project coming up. Let's print this thing, you know? And then he got the big map back there. You know what better way to show a kid like, Hey, look at this thing over here. Here's where we live. Here's how far it is over here. Hey, w we can draw some boats on here. I don't know if you can see it, but you know, I'm a pretty big conspiracy guy and I

Speaker 1 (1h 21m 47s): Like, I land as I like it.

Speaker 0 (1h 21m 48s): Yeah. You know, and you can start doing a little bit of research and it's super fun. I drew this. There's a, there's a interesting book about this guy, Olaf Johansen. And he took this trip to the center of the earth, but he was this old guy and on his death bed, he gave an account of him and his, I believe he was Norwegian and him and his father just fishing up in Franz Joseph Lam, like way at the top. And it's just, it's so beautiful. These stories that people tell BM conspiracies or imagination or fiction or nonfiction, some of them are so beautiful and so elegant.

It's like, you can interact with them if you have a map or you, and you can put that in the mind of a child and begin to use her imagination as a springboard for success later in life. You know what I mean? And

Speaker 1 (1h 22m 39s): Yeah, no, me and my buddy in college, we had this like a table, like a class top, and we had a huge map. We decided to just put it onto the table. Just kind of looked cool. Yeah. It's just over the year, just kind of sitting at the table and like sitting at, you know, different chairs you're you never quite realize just like you kind of think like understand like the world, but as you start looking more and things, really, what is this booklet? Yeah, I remember one of the places we looked at was like on the Northern most point of Ellesmere island above Canada, it's a place called alert.

It's the highest permanently habitated town in the world. It's called alert Canada. And it's actually ironically enough where the NSA has had listening posts for like 70 years. It's the it's because it's like the closest place to rush that you can get. But just a little shit like that. Like how the fuck you got alert, Canada?

Speaker 0 (1h 23m 36s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1h 23m 36s): At that point it was, I don't know. I was building up to be some in-depth story. Nope. There's a place called alert. Yeah.

Speaker 0 (1h 23m 42s): But there's so much that comes out of it because you know, think about maps. It's not just geography, but we have mental maps that we make of the world. We have neural networks that are mapped. Like everything's kind of a map if you think about it. And if you can begin to see this as a foundation, then you can use the world as a map, you can use your actions as a map, you can use your communications as a map, you can map out everything, you map out your future. You map out your path can map out where you are right now. You can map out where you want to be. It can map out the person that you wanted to come. And I think that, especially like I've learned so much from maps and you know, what's amazing.

You go back and you look at an old map with like goddamn sea monsters on like boats and stuff. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (1h 24m 21s): I hear a breath on mountains of Gloria or voice that even know what is that?

Speaker 0 (1h 24m 27s): And they're kind of congruent old maps are kind of congruent with the way we think, you know, if you look like you like the pie Rez map, I got the only discovered

Speaker 1 (1h 24m 33s): This 15. 13. Yeah.

Speaker 0 (1h 24m 35s): Yeah. And so if that's true, if in the past we had these bad maps, might it also be true that in that, like the map we're looking at now is bad. The same way that we thought planets were encased in glass, or that we were the center of the universe. If we know that those maps are wrong, isn't it probably true that the mental maps we have right now are wrong. Like they've always been wrong. So why wouldn't this want to be wrong?

Speaker 1 (1h 24m 57s): That's back to the whole, keep your mind open.

Speaker 0 (1h 24m 59s): Bingo.

Speaker 1 (1h 25m 0s): How am I certain that I have the correct model? Always be questioning your own model, move question. The very basis of your model. It's like when people like randomly use a cliche, like a statement as if it's a pony, like, well, you know, early bird gets the worm and you're like, that's just because everyone knows what that means. Does doesn't mean that that's a, that's a point. Yeah. Like reality has a liberal tent and you'd be like, okay, cool. A little like, gotcha moment that you see on a postcard. What is your argument goes around, comes around.

I'm like, sure. Everyone has heard that before that didn't necessarily work out. Like the top Nazis got to come live in America. Wasn't always score around, come around. You know, it all comes out in the end. I'm like, it doesn't all come out in the end. Sometimes the memo gets burned and the secret dies with the agency. And no one really knows who killed them. Sorry. That's just one thing. The model is like, just because it's like a, well, you know what they say, founder's a penny that doesn't apply to this from 2008 or in jail, you know?

Like, well, you know, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is like, who the stuff.

Speaker 0 (1h 26m 18s): Yeah. A beautiful there's there's so much there because

Speaker 1 (1h 26m 20s): A little pet peeve of mine, when people try to use a well-known phrase as some sort of ending to an argument

Speaker 0 (1h 26m 27s): That just sums everything up. Right.

Speaker 1 (1h 26m 29s): Yeah. Know, early to bed, early to rise. And it's like, I wake up at noon every day and go to bed at four. Am I work harder than anyone? I know. Well, you know, really the bad earlier wives make some men fuck off Touche bag. Yeah. Dude. I'd love to come on here again. I love to have you on some time. That's all I got my brain. Yeah.

Speaker 0 (1h 26m 58s): Awesome. I will. I'll reach out to you and I'll shoot you this stuff. Whenever you got an open amount, I will be stoked to come on. And if you ever have some downtime, you know, I should do some dates in a few months or whatever. And if you ever have downtime, hit me up, we'll do this. Definitely try to come out to Hawaii, man. It'll it'll fundamentally change the way you see the world and those in your life. If you come out here, I know that sounds crazy, but I did it. I know a lot of people that have done it and it will. It's beautiful here. And if you listen closely, Tommy, why is calling your name? Just listen to the wind, man.

It's calling your name. I'm telling you.

Speaker 1 (1h 27m 31s): It's that? It's that? It's the Pacific headquarters of the NSA

Speaker 0 (1h 27m 36s): Come and meet. I'll show you where Snowden lived.

Speaker 1 (1h 27m 39s): Yeah. There's actually a really cool place. Kind of back in the maps where the NSA is headquartered there, you have that huge underground car. Yeah. That was originally an underground map-making factory in world war II.

Speaker 0 (1h 27m 53s): I had no idea how to write that down.

Speaker 1 (1h 27m 55s): They made maps. They made aircraft, I think initially, and then maps. And then they stored like armaments there. And then they turn it into an, a listening post and then it snowed and walked out of there with like Rubik's cube or some shit around like fucking nothing. Makes sense. There's no purpose to anything. Just I have no idea. Fuck censorship. I gotta run.

Speaker 0 (1h 28m 17s): Okay. Handle it, brother. I'll talk to you soon, man. Thank you for everything. Have a good day.

Speaker 1 (1h 28m 20s): Peace take care

Speaker 0 (1h 28m 22s): Shoots to see it.