All right. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life Podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I got an incredible guest and we are working cross continents all the way from Hawaii to India. I have the incredible Tulsi Tiwari with us today and it is my pleasure to get to have you and talk to you. I want to introduce you to the people that may be listening. In my opinion, and I think a lot of other people's opinions, he's a visionary thinker and a pioneer in economic philosophy. With his groundbreaking book, Creation of Wealth vs. Transfer of Wealth, The Final Battle, and his newest book, Common Sense Economics, Tulsi offers new strategies for global economic growth, prioritizing individual excellence over concentrated capital. As founder, CEO of Alternative Approaches, he leads educational initiatives fostering entrepreneurial drive. Through Ultratech Laboratories, Tulsi pioneers solutions for radiation exposure monitoring. Additionally, as founder, CEO of Indie Roots Rural Enterprises, he champions rural empowerment. Tulsi's risk mitigation tools and distinguished academic background underscore his commitment to excellence. Join me in welcoming Tulsi Tawar, inspiring innovation and sustainable prosperity. Tulsi, thanks for being here today. How are you? Fine. Thank you, George, for inviting me here. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. Me too. I'm thankful that you're here. You've got a new book coming out, but you recently had a pretty big seller a while back about the... Creation of wealth versus transfer of wealth. That's a pretty big topic that we got going on in the world. I was wondering maybe if you could talk about that a little bit. Yeah, maybe we begin from there. And you see, George, actually, every day, everybody is dealing with money. There is not a single person, not even a child, who is not dealing with money on a day-to-day basis, you know, in some way. We all consume so many things, but somehow we have left this responsibility of understanding of money as a subject for experts in the hands of God knows who a few invisible economists who seem to be we have accepted in society, in our mind. Like when we think about physics, for example, we know that Einstein knows what he's talking about. Newton knows. So, you know, these scientists are knowing what they're talking about. So we lesser mortals simply follow them, you know. The same logic we apply to economists also. That these guys know what they're talking about and we lesser mortals Leave it to them to manage money, the larger macro, micro. We don't understand. The only figure that society, everybody knows is GDP. One thing that everybody in society has heard a number of times during the day on television, that there is something called GDP and it should be growing. And it should be growing at some particular rate, 5%, 6%. So this is all our contact with economics. But actually, our lives are affected by economic decision making every day, whether we go to hospital, whether we send children for education, daily bread and butter on our table. So every aspect of economics. So what happened is, you know, I came to America as a student in 1979. And as an engineering student to Chicago, that was Illinois Institute of Technology. While I was studying technology, my mind was going deeper into economics, actually. I was wondering. You know, there's a place in Connecticut, Danbury, where I used to work after my graduation. And when I went to the job, I realized the biggest car did not belong to the president of my company. It belonged to a janitor. I was shocked that Even a person having minimum income way back in 79, I'm talking about, had a good car, could support his family, living nicely in Danbury. Connecticut is a good town, you know, a small town. One hour from New York, 684, 84, 684 goes there. So I started wondering, you know, that what is this? So much of prosperity in America. Now, when I that time, I did not know economics, no. 79, now 2024. A new America, you know, the other day I was in USA, my daughter lives in Silicon Valley. I was walking at around 6 p.m., you know, crossing the signal. And about a middle aged man, like, you know, 50 year old along with me. So I said, time to go home. He said, are you kidding? I'm going for second job. America, you know, this two scenario, a janitor managing his family comfortably way back in 79. and a well-educated professional at 50 doing two jobs right now 40 years 70 percent average prosperity of america middle class is disappeared so way back in late 70s about 30 weeks of income on average American was sufficient for 52 weeks for basic survival needs minimum. Today that 30 week income has become 53 week income just for survival. So America went up from 40s to 70s like this. And from mid 70s onward, declining, declining, declining. Today, it is gone to God knows where. And that's why so much of anti-establishment psychology in the minds of masses. That's why Occupy Wall Street campaign way back in 2001 or 2002. You recall that, right? Yeah, of course. So this drama of money is what I have captured that how creation of wealth that is COW was the dominating factor in America or Europe from 40s to after World War II to what you call that Roosevelt New Deal. The New Deal. starting from the New Deal to almost about mid 70s is an era of creation of wealth from economic perspective where everybody is becoming prosperous. Minimum wager also is becoming prosperous. So the average prosperity of America in mid 70s is 70%, meaning if I have $100 of income, That means $60 is consumed for say basic requirements, house, food, whatever minimum requirement. $40 surplus. So 40 divided by 60 is around 70% prosperity in America for average American. That was creation of wealth. And from that point coming down now to a level where almost zero, all 100 is required. Even more than 100 is required for an average for survival. So surplus prosperity is not available. And that's the answer for all the confusion. So it is not about income. It is about prosperity. And that's what this story about creation of wealth of genuine growth of prosperity and transfer of wealth is a story of decline of prosperity, meaning transfer of wealth, meaning it is a negative term in my book. What is happening? Majority of people are creating wealth and a handful of people are sucking that wealth, sucking suction. by playing one or other kind of game that we can talk separately. But suction is going on. How it started, I know exactly how it started also. We can talk about. But just to give you, I've taken longer than probably time to explain this phenomenon of what is cow versus cow. So people create wealth. And their wealth is sucked by a handful of people through transfer of wealth. And they become richer and richer and richer and richer and richer. And the average American or average citizen, most countries, becoming poorer and poorer and poorer and poorer. Despite working two jobs now. Am I exaggerating? No, it's really difficult to live and have the I'm almost 50, so I'm the 50-year-old guy you were walking across the street with. And in my lifetime, I have seen my parents were able to survive somewhat on one person working. But now my wife and I, until recently, we're both working full-time jobs and still scratching enough to pay. We have one child and just barely making it and just full of anger kind of on so many levels and distress is out of control. So it is true, no? I mean, I'm not making it up. No, you're not. It's true. And everybody is feeling the pain. But nobody is telling the real story. And there is a great amount of confusion as to why it is happening, who is responsible. And because there is no clear-cut analysis or diagnosis, Suppose we fall sick, we go to doctor. If he does not diagnose correctly, we will remain sick. So the diagnosis is what that book is all about. Number one. And it is not leaving a diagnosis. It is then talking about how to solve it because solution was already happening. Forties to seventies was a solution period. So I don't have to teach what has to be done. We have to learn from our own history what is the right thing we were doing during 40s to 70s. So that is captured in the book. And what exactly we did wrong in mid 70s, that is captured in the book. And till date, that error has not been corrected because nobody knows about that error. And people are hiding it in the confusion because the people who are playing games with money, they don't want society to come to know that how are they doing this suction of transfer of wealth? How are they doing it? They don't want society to know. They want it to remain confused. So money is right now shrouded in confusion. And this book is about giving a direct understanding about money to Any anybody and everybody of little curiosity. It is nothing to do with knowledge of economics. It's as simple as like we know air is all around us. We don't have to take a degree on environment to know that air is all around us. Like that money can be understood by every person of little curiosity. It is so simple, but it is being hidden away. And that is the greatest intellectual. That is what is causing all the misery for society. This is my information. Yeah, it's fascinating to think about. Some people talk about the central banks being the problem. Some people talk about corruption being the problem. Some people speak about usury being a problem. Are these all symptoms or are these potentially the reason we are in the situation we're in? A part of all these things is true. But, you know, there are two kinds of things like you use the word symptoms. So in a tree, you know, there is a root and then there are leaves. So leaves are symptoms. Yes. If you come to know the root, the root is only one. So there is one prime reason, only one, not two. 1971. There was a famous, world-famous economist, Friedman, Milton Friedman. Everybody knows he's treated as a godfather of economics world over. Not only America, world over. And genuinely so. He happened to be from Chicago, by the way. University of Chicago. So he developed a concept That was the time of Nixon era. That was the time when gold standards failed and were thrown away by President Nixon because it had to be thrown away because it was not functioning. I'll not go into detail of all that. You know, right now it's not important why it failed, how it failed. But that was the time Milton Fried and then people Before that time, you know, every currency in the world had a direct correlation with dollar, US dollar. The fixed rate. It was decided by me in meetings, you know, that this one dollar will be equal to so many euro, one dollar will be equal to so many rupees. So there was a kind of a knowledgeable people used to gather and they used to figure it out and fixed rate. And it was all related with gold also. But what happened is that Fluctuation started happening. That rate was not able to sustain. So in one country's economy and another country's economy, how do you do trade if you're not knowing what is the conversion rate? So there was a little fluctuation. So Milton Friedman designed a concept to take care of that fluctuation. Suppose you talk about dollar and Euro. so so so that if the variation happens in this particular band of say plus minus five percent or so people can do the adjustment you know so instead of fixed rate so he came up with that concept in context of uh what used to be done for commodity you know there was a speculated commodity exchange you could forecast some particular price and So like that currency conversion rates were granted this tool for fixing currency conversion rates and managing them. He did not know that this tool will be utilized by somebody else. The gamblers came in the game and they found this easy way of making quick money. It was meant to be monitored by country head so that between two countries currency transfer can be monitored. It went into the hands of a market gambler who started doing business because this fluctuations gives you opportunity to make money. Now all gamblers got together. And gradually they brought even society into gambling because everybody loves gambling, no? Make more money short time without working. Everybody likes the idea. So they utilize this human nature of greed, you know, making easy money, not by working, not by labor, but by, you know, gambling. So currency market started in a big way. forex conversion as a result do you know for example GDP represents real economy where people are working me and you and we are manufacturing product selling product so today world GDP is 140 trillion dollar one four zero trillion dollar and you know what is the business of forex 1 500 trillion dollars wow 10 times so 1500 trillion dollar activity is happening in transfer of wealth activity and 140 trillion dollar activity is happening at creation of wealth activity which is more powerful the transfer without a doubt It is dominating. Yeah. So whatever surplus wealth you and I create, you know, little bit all get sucked over and over many times a day. These transactions happen not once, several times a day. And sometimes we start calling them smart people. So the people who work hard and those who think hard they are not smart and good people the people who know how to steal wealth created by these hard-working thinking people are smart people only one act is required one problem you know there is always diagnosis means that you know exact problem so you need to give tablet for that only that tablet is I call it sanctity of money act meaning what any time anywhere transfer of wealth activity is happening we need to make sure that it is within tolerance level of creation of creation of wealth needs to dominate and transfer wealth needs to be controlled within Because there will always be speculation. It won't be zero. It cannot be. There is always a negative thing happening all the time. You cannot make negative zero. But you can by design of your law making ability and guiding people, you can control the transfer of wealth activity to a smaller percentage. Say 5%, 10%. which is tolerable. That is what is required. But it is not in the interest of the people who are in control of capital right now. Because they are playing this game very comfortably. No matter what happens in society, their money will continue to grow exponentially. But this is not free market. In the name of free market, we are being fooled. Government is facilitating this activity. So government is either not knowing or knowingly dumb. There was a really good book that came out a few years ago by Thomas Piketty. He's a French economist, and it was called Capital. Thomas Piketty, no? Yes, yes. Yeah, Capital in 21st Century. Great book, right? I've read the whole book. It's a very thick book. Yeah. He had a pretty dire warning. Do you know an interesting story? Thomas Piketty was an American, actually. You know, French. living in America. To publish his book, he went to France. He did not dare publish in USA. Why so? First he published in French. I think I, I hope I'm not wrong. So, you know, the story that widening disparity, but see, see, he has given a wrong solution. He's talking about wealth tax. Okay. Wealth tax is it, is it, is it, what are you talking about? Why, why, why are you wanting to allow people to transfer wealth first wrongly? So his solution is on the symptom kind of approach. I don't agree with his solution. He wants to reverse it. He's like, let's just transfer it back over here. But no one's going to do that. It doesn't seem... Why allow that? Why allow that? When you can prevent it from happening, when it was not happening during 1940s to 70s. So there is a clear distinction I'm telling you now. 30 to 40 years of American economy versus another 40 years. So you take 40 years of pre 70, pre 80 economy and you take 40 years of post 80 economy and there is a clear distinction. Why can't we see it? Well, I think you would say in the 40s to 70s, the United States was the manufacturing hub. And since we destroyed Europe, we just rebuilt Europe. So there was this excess flow of money coming in. The speculators had enough to pay the people. See, speculators have money because when you become prosperous, I told you that Average American was prosperous in mid 70s because he had $60 to consume and $40 he could use any way he liked. So that prosperity, that 40 on top of 60 for an average American. Now that 40, I can apply in many ways. I can gamble or I can invest in new creation. Two choices are there. So see if you recall way back in 70s as I gave the example of janitor people had more or less everybody had a house and a car more or less your washing machine dryer at home more or less everybody could afford you know any working person could afford that was the moment when American leadership should have taken into higher orbit of economic ideas. That was a creative creative products. Products which come from creation, not by manufacturing. You know, like, when I say creation, you know, where human talent is directly dealing like cinema making, designing, you know, education, there is no material much material involved. There's more of person to person knowledge exchange, skill exchange, learning and growing. That economy was possible to be developed. That is how we lost direction. And all this prosperity, instead of pushing up our satellites, you know, Creative activity, like satellite is a creative activity, right? So more and more people could have been involved in creative activities gradually. See, anybody becomes a photographer. I mean, it doesn't require a PhD. If you have a talent, if you have a aptitude, see, anybody can do research on something. Suppose you want to understand what is the nature of ant. How does elephant behave? Suppose you want to do research. What will you do? There are people out of their interest. National geography pays them money. They go, they do that. That's a creative economy. You know what I mean? Material consumption is very little. More of human mind, thinking, anthropology, creative research, scientific research, exploration. Not only being very high IQ, intelligent activity, you could just be explorer, you know, like, I want to explore what the hell is going on in this thing or that thing. So all kinds of people could have been engaged in more of creative activities, mid 70s onward. And that world lost, America lost that opportunity. Instead, it went into negative activity of gambling. Put the whole society into gambling. Today, you know, your pension funds are in gambling right now. Pension funds. You know, that BlackRock company is running your pension funds. They run the world. World tour. Yeah, they own everything. So I told you clear diagnosis and clear solution. So when you say... All other reasons are secondary reasons. I hope I'm making sense to you. I don't know. Yeah, no, I agree. It seems that even if we understand how to fix it, mechanism to do it besides revolt and that's kind of what you see happening around the world right now not just it's the yellow vest it's it's what's happening in india it's what's happening in the united states it's happening in the arab spring it's happening everywhere the people don't have any money the money system is broken and this is a result of the geographic wars the ukraine all of this is a symptom of a failed monetary system do you think so To say that it cannot be done, obviously, I wouldn't agree. But to say that it is so difficult to do, I would agree. Well said. And there can be a starting point. Yes, well said, yes. There is always a starting point. And the first point is, don't forget, economy, see, In democracy, elections are happening once in four or five years. That is true. But you know, in democracy of economics, every minute you spend money, you are giving a vote. Power of money is with you all time. How you spend money? where you spend where you don't spend it is your power our power so what happens is no matter who is the champion of politics consumer customer ordinary citizen is always champion of the economy if they understand that they decide that in my city this is Creation of wealth. This is transfer of wealth. And we are not going to allow transfer of wealth to happen in our city beyond a point. Then you will see that our income, say we got $100 of income out of that. As I am saying, most of the surplus money is going to transfer of wealth. And the moment we start monitoring our city economics, forget about the whole world. Don't worry about it. It's not required. Just the city that like you live in Hawaii now. Suppose we take Hawaii and we calculate what is the creation of wealth happening, what is transfer of wealth happening, and educate our people among ourselves. Then we find which are the other new creation of wealth activities we should empower. So through banking, local banks, and local decision making of which product should be selling more, you can start shifting local economy towards creation of them. So awareness among citizens and one or two local politician who has to first understand what we are talking about so that they become the vocal champion of local economy. So it is possible. And because it is an issue of such an important dimension, this issue is not an ordinary issue. It matters to anybody and everybody world over. So once you show proof of concept anywhere, it will start picking up steam. That's what I think. So it is doable. It is doable. What do you think about some of these new ideas like peer-to-peer, like Bitcoin and all these particular monetary systems that separate money from the state? You know, I feel so much pain for this guy. Yesterday, I was watching that young fellow, cryptocurrency fellow. 25 years he has been put into jail. There is a deeper story. People have not understood him. So he's going to jail. See cryptocurrency by design is not supposed to be a currency. A currency can never change in its value. by itself one dollar note will always remain one dollar even 100 years from now in any part of america one bitcoin becoming hundred so many worth of so many growing its value over period of time is not a currency the name is misnomer it is What we really need is a digital currency instead of dollar and coin paper and coin. Now like credit card is a digital currency numbers. It is there since 1970s. Credit card is in use since long time. I was using in 79 when I was in America. That was a digital currency today with Internet. Every there is no need for actual dollars and actual coins. So everything can be digital currency. But cryptocurrency is a kind of invention which is not meant to be currency. It is more like, you know, some mathematical champions come together and play a game and become it is a kind of a creative economy, you know, one type of a creative economy. It is one type of small, very small fraction of the economy as a creative economy. But it is misused for speculation. It is being misused as a tool for speculation, same way as you can misuse antiques. What is the importance of antiques? Why does a particular painting worth $100 million? It's rare. So the economics of antiques works among people who are trading in antiques. And they want to restore their wealth in the form of a high value painting. That's a kind of one very small economy in which those people, those who have tremendous amount of wealth, are playing that antique economy. But cryptocurrency is brought to the common man as a currency. There is a big, big, big, big fraud. It cannot be allowed. Currency creation is the responsibility of government of a nation because government represents every citizen of society. And currency cannot change in its value by itself. You use currency. to create wealth and wealth creation is conversion of human time into capital. So I work at McDonald's for eight hours. I convert my eight hours into so many dollars or I am Steve Jobs. I invent something in three years and I convert my three years into $100 million because my product is sellable, useful for everybody who wants to buy it. So both ends, labor end and high thinking end, both are converting their time into money. And that is creation of wealth. Sometimes I wonder, when I look at all this chaos happening right now, if what we're seeing is people beginning to define value different. And that would change the representation of money. What we value can change the way we look at money, I think. What do you think about that? See, value is, you know, they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So value is always defined by individual. Somebody who likes to read book buys a book. Somebody who likes to see a cinema goes to cinema. Somebody who wants to climb a mountain, Everest, invest money on that. He'll not buy books. Book is if you give him ten books, he will say no money. I don't want to give you any money. So value anyway is defined by the person who wants to buy. That is not a problem. That is always the case. And if you understand what is it that customers need from me or what value I can create for which customers you start making money. because money is not coming from the air money is coming from that value that we used our time to convert into like a carpenter takes a wood makes a chair so I am willing to pay him instead of hundred dollars of wood I am paying two hundred dollars for chair so I am giving that hundred dollars extra because I want chair So that value is come from skill and time of the carpenter. And that's how he gets $100 capital. Now this is concept. Capital is a concept. But we in society register that concept in our bank. Our bank has an account book. So $100 is registered in the $100. So our capital has gone from 100 to 200 when a carpenter made a chair and sold $100 worth of wood into $200. So that $100 belonged to me as a carpenter. But the value, what I value, I decide as a customer. If I don't want a chair, that chair is even for $100 wood, I don't want to pay $80. So value is always it's not a fixed parameter. It is the ability of the buyer to pay. And what is the interest I have? See, when we buy something, why do we buy something that makes me happy? That's why I buy. Food I buy makes me happy that I'm having something to eat or everything. So the value is converted into money at a particular time in context of what is the purchasing power of the customer at that point? And what is the interest of the customer in that specific product? And it keeps changing. And between any two persons, seller and buyer, it can be different. That's what value is in transfer of wealth. Value is zero and negative. In gambling, for example, there is no value. Human time is gambling with money which has already been created beforehand. So two people come, they bring $100 from creation of wealth, and then they gamble and keep gambling. Time is lost. $200 does not become $205. No new value is created by both of them. Transfer of wealth, when manipulated by design, because the economy is so complex, you cannot come to know what kind of manipulations are going on where. Then it is not even gambling. It is actually intellect stealing you know it is gambling there is a fair chance of winning for every at least a chance so so value as I as you said this is the placement of value in in my construct of that value converts into money time converts into value value come and converts into new capital What role does social mobility play? Social mobility? The ability, like the janitor. The janitor in 1979, he had a fair chance at living a better life, where in today's world, you can go to school, get in debt, and never be able to climb up the social ladder. See, we have come to a point of what you call that edge. It can only be reversed by diagnosing correctly and correcting that one error which has happened in 70s. Otherwise people will continue to suffer. Just imagine what percentage of people in America do not have dental insurance. Just imagine you and me not having dental insurance and not able to sleep just because one tooth is aching. Yeah. For nights and nights together and not for one or two. Some 30% of America is in that condition right now. So America is a story of experiment, you know, which started 1776. And this experiment succeeded from economic point of view. With all its multitudes of other social issues, problems and all that, put it aside. Every problem cannot be discussed with everything. But just concentrate on economics. It learned how to build, how to create prosperity, innovation with all the innovations that we didn't have. Why are we struggling? I want to give an example analogy. Yeah, please. 200 years ago, technologies were not as developed as today. Whole of America must be working minimum eight hours to make a living. Every day, 8 to 10 hours, everybody must be working to make a living. Right or wrong? Yeah, at least. Now consider America as one human being. Forget about America as a nation. Consider America as one human being. 200 years ago, was working all the time to earn enough to sustain. survival, basic income. Fast forward 2024. Only 2 to 3% manpower is required to produce food, shelter, whatever minimum income is required. How many human hours are required? Not even 2%. so the same america person in 200 years ago was working eight hours for producing food and shelter same america today 90 people are struggling and managing only survival despite the technology technologically only 2% of my time, that is 365, you take 2% meaning 7, 8 days. Only 8 days are required because of the help of technology today. Technology advancement from 200 years had brought me to America to a point that only 10 days of my work is enough to survive, produce all that I need to consume in full year. So what is happening? Where is the 98% of my Efficiency which is brought by technology is gone. This is an important analogy and question to understand. That 98% of economic efficiency is being destroyed. I call it socio-economic inefficiency. Is it being destroyed or is it just being sucked out by the wealthiest people on the planet? See, when you are calling sucked out, no? What exactly is happening? The transfer of wealth. It is happening, transfer of wealth and destruction of wealth, both. Transfer of wealth in the form of that only a handful of people are owning that capital, which is actually not created by them, mind you. They are not creators of wealth. They are transferers of wealth because an avenue for transfer has been provided legally. our system. So, socioeconomic efficiency when I talk about then if a person is supposed to work eight hours and technological efficiency could have provided him with a surplus of if we were 70% surplus then we should have been say 150% surplus now. Yeah. Just imagine a person having 100%, 150% surplus income, meaning what? Out of my $100 of today's income, $25, $75, I could do anything else I want, not for survival. That efficiency would have gone into research, creation. Because I would love to do, suppose you want to make a film. So you got that money to make a film because that is a surplus for you. And if that film works, you will get more money out of that film because you have made a good film. So either you make a film because it makes you happy, but no problem, or you make a film that brings you even more money because you have made a good film. Both ways, you are a winner. So the transfer of capital has also caused rest of the society is stuck stuck in survival and destruction and saying because we are producing things which we don't consume or we don't need to consume so the meaning material. So that's where the carbon problem has come. And that's where the sustainability issue has come. So on one hand, in last 40 years, we have lost opportunity to move into creative economy. On the second hand, we have brought the sustainability as a major problem for humanity, because we are consuming materials unnecessarily. We don't need and we are consuming materials. So this is what I mean by socioeconomic inefficiencies. It's interesting to see so many multinational corporations use the word sustainability when their business model is built on excess consumption. Like, how is that even possible, right? No, no, no. Excess consumption is another gameplay going on for a long time in America. It's not in 70s. It started way back when marketing was discovered as a major discipline. Place a product in the mind of its customer. You know how they define marketing, MBAs? Placing a product in the mind of a customer. The customer should know that I want this or that. No. You place a product and entice a customer to demand it. Create a desire in the mind of a person. What value is that? That is not coming out of the person himself. What value is that? It is an imposed value from outside through advertisements, through marketing. You know, everything has its own place. Marketing is a positive activity. It is not meant to be negative activity. Advertising is meant to be a positive activity because by television, your product is now suddenly known to thousands and millions of people. Positive activity. But placing a product in the mind of a person is not a positive activity. Negative value. Yeah. And because we are all caught up working for such organizations, we don't question because our monthly income is coming from those very activities. Our family is surviving on those very activities. So nobody has any reason to complain now. And we become victim in the game. So creation of wealth is not a utopia. Creation of wealth is the basis of societal prosperity. Transfer of wealth is not a natural phenomenon. It is a deliberate game played by some handful of people. Given on silver platter because majority doesn't understand how that game is played. Do you think that this particular transfer of wealth that's been happening, it seems to me that it's been not only a problem for the individual's finances, but for their well-being and their health. It leads to addiction. It leads to despair. It leads to poverty. It leads to an individual... maybe no longer having the ability to become an entrepreneur. Like on some level, it drains you from dreaming. It drains you from having the heart to stand up and fight for what you believe in. Exactly. You know, when you're a slave. Yes. Yes. What freedom you have? None. Right now we are slave of survival money. Yep. Everybody needs survival money. Everybody has a kitchen at home. Everybody is waiting for that food on table. And a slave has no rights. Slave has no dreams. So we are currently living, majority of people living a life of in invisible slavery. It is not about black and white anymore. Yeah. Everybody is a slave world over now. Yeah. And yester years, sword was the weapon to control dominate people. That sword has been replaced by gun, bomb, and finally by money. Now money is the real sword. So why do you become a slave? Because the money man will tell you to behave otherwise you don't get food on the table. So despite all the creativity of science and technology which has made everybody so efficient that only 5% of time is required for survival. But everybody is compelled to invest 100% time for survival. That 95% opportunity is lost because I am a slave. And we are given a narrative of illusion. That you are free, you are so and so. That is for indirect narratives. This is the current scenario. People responsible are leadership in 70s, late 70s. They are responsible. And people, despite having 40 years of experience, current leadership not realizing what is going on is perpetuation of that same problem. That's how I see it. yeah it's true I see it in my own life I i worked as a I was a truck driver for 26 years and it the hours got longer the work got more I passed that in my truck you know and I i couldn't take it anymore so I told them look this is wrong I'm not doing it anymore and I laid out a plan for them to make their production numbers better and I explained to them the reason the production numbers weren't good is because they're not measuring all the variables Turns out it's not a bug. It's a feature. They already know that. They know why you work it because you're old and you're slow. Get out of here. You cannot chew the leather anymore. And it's amazing to see what happens to your own identity when the illusion is pulled away. Now what are you going to do? Now how do you pay for this? How do you pay for your kid's education? Who are you? Who are you now? And this sort of awakening is happening to me and all kinds of people around the world. And that's why you see people waking up to the illusion that the curtain's been pulled back. And I... I mean, what do you see happening? I know no one has a crystal ball, but how do you see the next, people talk about a currency reset, or how do you see things playing out in the next five or seven or two years? No, I think it is beginning to happen already. Because of, you know, while all this has happened, One positive thing that has happened in society is that people like Steve Jobs are able to bring about, Tom Lee is the first man, I should not forget, bring about the internet revolution. Thanks to the internet revolution, you sitting in Hawaii, I am here in India and we are talking. So this is increasing day by day. So internet is providing a platform where convergence of knowledge is beginning to happen. We are moving away from greater confusion towards greater clarity day by day. And a moment comes of critical mass. In everything, there is always a minimum critical mass. And I think that is naturally going to happen. Nobody can prevent internet, power of internet. Often people talk about the negative effects of internet. But see negative effects have always existed in society without internet also. Internet is only accelerating now positive forces. And to some extent, negative has also an opportunity to accelerate. Earlier, anybody doing wrong will remain hidden for 30 years, 40 years, 50 years. Today, anybody anywhere in the world is doing some obvious wrong, gets caught in God knows who takes selfie and who catches it. So the world as a whole is moving from negative to positive in terms of convergence of multi perspective people coming together bringing their knowledge and ability and you know like like two of us are connected you can safely assume now that you have a friend in Bombay yeah and you suddenly you know you you may have other friend I can feel that sense that if I land up in Hawaii okay there is a guy who knows me at least yes yeah that sense of convergence you know in in a personal relation and then actually translating into knowledge because it is the knowledge which is required to solve problems to define confusion to define diagnosis to find and to find a solution for a specific problem knowledge is required so the knowledgeable people need to be coming together more and more and then you need a voice so the voice comes from in democracy from politics So some of our friends have to be coming from politics also because then it is their agenda to take a particular point to a larger platform because they have access to those platforms. That is one. The second one, irrespective of what anybody does or not does, you and I are free to develop our own community. A community, say you have a hundred friends. And they all understand what is creation of wealth, what is transfer of wealth. And they decide that among 100 of us, we will not waste a single penny in transfer of wealth. And they bring their surplus money towards creation of wealth for their own children. Forget about others. And they empower their own next generation through their collective wealth in terms of education, research, exploration, a startup company, new company. So you have a world of your own through internet. Global community, you can identify 100 people, 1000 people who are working together. This is second. The third one is in Britain, UK, there are two, three towns which have created their local currencies. And it is officially recognized by government of UK. Despite British Pound being their national currency, local currencies are created. So that people deliberately purchase in local currency, local things by their decisions. So some of the effect of this corruption of national currency can be sorted out by doing that. The same approach can be taken a step forward now, in my mind. If the national political leader understands the importance of creation of wealth and purpose of currency, every country we can create multiple currencies. There is no need for one currency. And you can isolate a particular community from a particular city from national currency and develop a creation of wealth model locally where transfer of wealth is not happening or is happening in limited way. So the new currency becomes more powerful for the people who are dealing in the new currency. So suppose if Hawaii has a population of 50,000 people and suppose if you have one mayor there And the mayor understands what I'm saying. And he wants to experiment. Within three to five years, you will have a tremendously prosperous Hawaii economy in Hawaii currency recognized by government of USA in the model of what UK has done. But we will go a step forward because they are not knowing how to utilize it in creation of wealth. They are just using it for minimum local employment is not lost and local manufacturers are not losing business. That is what they are using for. We can take it into the total because I understand what is the meaning of money and currency and capital. So we can design a safeguard in Hawaii. So if there is a small town anywhere in this world where the mayor understands what I'm talking about, We can play this game and experiment and find out. You know for sure that when created wealth stops going to transfer of wealth, created wealth will generate more creation of wealth. It will automatically lead to greater prosperity for everybody, including the janitor. That example is, you know, it comes very easy. So I take that. I don't mean any ill feeling for being a janitor. You know, at one time, anybody can be janitor. Who cares? My grandfather was a janitor. He did pretty well. Yeah. And, you know, that is how life begins. Yeah. And then you do other things. So I am looking for an opportunity where a janitor can hope to become a steer jobs. Yeah. That is the analogy I like to give. And it is possible because the human mind has the ability of perseverance. It only needs surplus time and surplus money to put after its dream. If you are stuck in survival, then all your time is sucked in. And time is the first thing you need to work towards dream, surplus time. But if your surplus money is not coming and surplus time is consumed for developing food at home, survival at home, then you don't have time to apply your dream. So that is the path. And what I'm saying is from what has happened. I have only tried to find out how America became prosperous and why America became poorer. In that course, in that effort only, I could understand and write this book. I went deeper. I love mathematics. So, you know, I'm a student of math. So, I love mathematics. So, I went deeper to find formula, you know, mathematical formula. They are all there in my book, actually. What is that, the new book, Common Sense Economics? Maybe you could talk about what people could expect when they read that book. Yeah, what that book does is, you know, my first book is like a, what you call is a kind of a knowledge book, you know. Everything that I know, I had to put in one place. I had to put in one place, you know. So that book is like a comprehensive knowledge book. This book is a derived book out of the knowledge book. So what it does is it derives some of the things from the knowledge book and it demonstrates how it can be applied in different ways. So I talk about six kinds of actual disruptions coming forward, which we can experience around us. I will not go in detail about the disruptions right now. Our conversation has already become quite long. But these are the six disruptions. I'll just mention one lifestyle disruption. Lifestyle disruption is on the hook. Why? That today when we talk about sustainability, one Finland scientist did analysis and came to a figure. It said Western society is consuming 40 tons of material per person per year. 40 tons per capita per year. It's an old paper around 2015 or 16. And if we want sustainability, this consumption should go down to eight tons. So four zero tons to eight tons. Now, a tough one. But it is giving you direction. So then second point comes. So we talked about overconsumption, unnecessary consumption. So in all these 40 years, we have taken unnecessary consumption has taken us to that route. And now second thing is, Good health requires preventive health care, not falling sick and getting cured. So food habits and all kinds of habits so that we don't fall sick, we don't unnecessarily become fat, too fat and then try to reduce weight. These are all kinds of games being played for transfer of wealth activities, creating confusion in the minds of people and then making people go one way pendulum and then putting them in the other extreme of the pendulum and both side the people are gaining those who are playing the games so while I mentioned about the sanctity of money that financial game playing there is a marketing game also going on 100 years ago which is become a very powerful coupled with this finance game two games are happening so lifestyle disruption will mean that we learn and understand what I really need to eat, not eat, what I really need to consume, not consume, in what kind of a form I should consume something so that sustainability also remains. So that is one. Now, how will it happen? So this book is all about future trends, actually. so it talks about solutions it talks about what I can do at individual level what I can what if I am a president of america what I should do as a policy level so it talks about those things so but it is applicable by every individual at our own levels but if we are blessed with the power of any kind they can we can play this at that level so there are six disruption which will include governance disruption also So there, it will be like, we need a decentralized version of governance. When power gets centralized, they are so far away, we don't understand what the hell is going on. So in times of future, mayor should be more important politician than governor and president. Because he's visible to me. He or she is visible to me. and they are accountable. So we can as a community, we can play a game. If it is going out of way, we can correct it in time. We don't have to wait for 50 years to correct. Right now, because of the power of centralization, the awakening has itself taken 40-50 years. And still, we are not knowing what the hell is going wrong, who is responsible. So, this book common sense economics first of all is about educating any curious person about what money is. How as an individual and as a society we become prosperous. What is the role of money and there are money goes in different ways. Positive ways and negative ways. Positive ways makes it as prosperous and negative ways makes handful people very rich but rest of the society becomes poorer so that education is there so you can relate with you know yes you can see in your own decision making every day to day life that how money is already playing the game the second objective is to show path of correction corrections which are possible and at an individual level and national level at all levels you know and then I am taking a little leap of faith in talking about six disruptions. So that these six disruptions are going to reset, reset our overall collective global society on right path of economy. That is creation of wealth. That is what this book is about. Is it available now? Is it out in stores? Yeah, it will be coming in short time, another two months. Right now, preview edition is there. If you want, I can share with you my PDF version. And if you send me time, critic timely, I'll try to incorporate in the printed book. So for you, I can offer you that right now, the preview version. Yeah, I would love that. Not to share with anyone. No. No, no, just for me to read, and I would be honored. Yeah, well, I'll talk to you when we finish recording, but yeah, it's a... Please share your email ID. Of course. I will share. Okay. Well, fantastic. Tulsi, this is amazing. I really enjoyed our conversation today, and I've got to have you maybe come back after we launch, and maybe we could have another person join our conversation, and it could be like a panel discussion, have more people come in and more ideas out there, but... Before I let you go today, where can people find you? And is there a certain place where they can look for the book? Or is there a specific site where people should try to reach out to you if they want to contact you? Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm updating my website also currently. So there is a website, but it is under sort of within two months, a lot of things are going to happen. But to begin with, my email ID should serve the purpose. Okay. Okay. So you can share my email ID with anybody, no problem. Anybody who wants to have a conversation, we can decide a time. And those who are interested in going deeper into the subject, I'm more than happy to talk. And if we can build a team of people, if there are some politicians known to you who are interested to correct, want to do the new economy as their career because you know after all anybody who will bring this concept into politics will be a winner so if you then it can go to you know that mayor kind of a person or so then we can discuss a possible local policies a local currency creation so those kind of things can be done depending on who are the people we are talking to Yeah, it's a beautiful idea. I hope people go down and I'll put your LinkedIn, the LinkedIn profile so people can reach out to you there as well. But you can place my email ID on your launch. Yeah, of course. I can definitely put that in there so they can reach out to you. Well, hang on briefly afterwards. I'm going to hang up with all the people listening, but I'll talk to you briefly afterwards. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you have a beautiful day. Whenever you're listening to this, I hope you have a beautiful evening. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did. And that's all we got for today. So to all the listeners out there, thank you for spending some time with us. And we'll talk to you soon.