Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life Podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day, a beautiful evening. I hope everyone's living the dream. I know that I am right now. I've got a great show for you right here. just crossing boundaries right now. I'm coming to you guys live with Reece Dunn, and we are on a journey through realms of consciousness and holistic healing. I want everyone to welcome Reece. He's a visionary guide navigating the enigmatic landscapes of PsyD therapy and plant medicine. With a soul steeped in the alchemy of ancient wisdom and modern innovation, Reece serves as a beacon of ethereal wisdom and transformative insight. Through his profound understanding of the Qigong traditional Chinese medicine and the profound interplay between mind, body, and spirit, Reese transcends the conventional boundaries of healing modalities, inviting us to explore the depths of our existence. He's an author, an athlete, and a luminary in the field of holistic wellness. Reese illuminates the path toward harmony and balance, inviting us to journey beyond the veil of ordinary perception and embrace the boundless possibilities of human existence. Reese, man, maybe people who aren't watching, they don't understand, man, that the Red Sea is right behind you. Maybe you can give a little shout out to where you're streaming from, what's going on, and how you are. Oh, your mic is muted on us, man. Okay, cool. I'm muted now. There we go. Take it from the top. Take it from the top, yeah. So, my name is Reece. Thank you so much for that introduction, George. I'm in the Red Sea right now. I'm in Egypt. This is where I spend my winters, in the mountains and the sea. And it's just beautiful. It's a beautiful, optimised life. And I guess I can tell you a little bit about me. I can tell you a little bit about the cheap gung. I can tell you a bit about the psychedelic therapeutic industry stuff. And... Yeah. And I guess the first thing I can put out there about myself is that I've always been a trailblazer. I'm a young guy. I'm 25. And I've always been a trailblazer. Like at the age of 18, I worked for the royal family in Kuwait. I took four years and they hired me as a calisthenics coach. I was, I know, right? Like calisthenics coach and what? So yeah, I like not to be shy about this part because it's an important part. My story's very interesting and it's still early days. So yeah, I'd love to continue connecting with you. Let's do this today. Happy to meet you. It stokes me. it's interesting the world of psychedelics right now. And I think being a young guy, like you have a real opportunity to make an impact, not only on the field that's happening around us, but on the minds of the people that are your age and younger, man, like how are things unfolding in the world of psychedelics in your part? Okay. So for my part of the world, I'll speak for, uh, I'll speak for like the UK, uh, So in terms of institutionally, it's unfolding in a way where you see multiple universities in the UK adding to like doctorates, psychedelic modules, essentially. So there's like Exeter Uni, there's like a bunch of different other unis in the UK and then there are even some unis with like clinical research. There's a bunch of people who are really interested in psychedelics and they just want to understand it more so they've been doing the clinical research inside Imperial College London and all over. So that's like what's happening institutionally. No laws are being passed yet in the UK. and then of course there's like ceremony based people as well that keep the honor and they're they're trying to revive the sacred and they're in the space of the uk there's a lot of there's a lot of ceremony there's a lot of uh amazing hippie festivals there's a lot of yeah yeah yeah it's there culture's there you know full of um full of like uh stone circles and stonehenge and stuff like it's a big It's always been a big energy in the UK, really. And there are, if you look at the indigenous people of the UK, they always actually were using mushrooms. And there's times of the year where you can go to the fields and you'll see loads of old ladies that kind of look like Dumbledore or something. and they'll just be with their bag and they'll just be picking up the caps like the liberty caps and stuff so yeah uk I'd say it has it has some kind of some kind of culture there about it when it relates to the psychedelic industry that is developing it's not as developed as australia and canada and what america's leaning into um but it's it's definitely it's definitely present and prominent and been there for a long time It's interesting to think about the way in which the therapeutic use of psychedelics has kind of been with humanity since the beginning of time. It seems like on some level, whether you're in Egypt or wherever you want to look back, you can kind of see the story unfold in the mythologies. And it's interesting to get to that. One thing that I see that's very unique about you is like you are getting to play a part in all these different cultures. Like you are just, you're kind of traveling the world. And in doing so, not only are you educating yourself and finding and making your own way and living an interesting life, but you're also bringing to the world of psychedelics this different understanding of how different cultures may partake in the psychedelic therapy. I'm wondering if you could speak to that a little bit. uh-huh uh-huh yeah well I've got this shirt on which is called revive the sacred I love it yeah revive the sacred man and and I feel like I'm the perfect champion for this because uh when it when it comes to ceremony ceremony is a really important part of you know the official standards are set and setting and it's like get set right get your setting right you know and really we've been doing that forever all of the indigenous people of all lands have always understood that ritual is important when it comes to these sacred medicines right and so and so that's what I can really begin to speak about ritual is so important these sacred medicines yeah you know it's sometimes I think that There's definitely different ways to partake in different plant medicines. Ceremony seems to be something that we see in the West, at least where I am. I see it in Hawaii a little bit, but I see it in Denver and I see it in Oregon where they're beginning to bring people together you know, in, in, in ways in which they're healing, like PTSD and people working with people in addiction, but they don't speak too much to the idea of ceremony. There's group settings and stuff like that, but what are some of the advantages do you think can be for individuals with PTSD or, or fighting their own personal demons in a ceremonial setting? In a ceremonial setting, in a ceremonial setting? Um, Okay, so I'm going to speak from my experience that I've been to many a ceremony, but when it comes to taking an actual psychedelic therapy session, I haven't had one yet. But what I know is that when it comes to ceremony, if you look at the yoga industry and you look at the modern day yoga industry, and if you look at the modern day plant medicine ceremonial side of things, they have a very similar way of holding space for people. So when they hold space for people, they truly give a heart-centered space where anybody can be like, ah! It's truly no pressure here. It's truly no pressure, you know. And for someone who has PTSD in any sort of way, I think ceremony would be a really good thing. But it depends on their case. And I think every case is individualized. And a lot of what I'm doing with the better energy books is about really creating resources that give the space for people to do their own healing because that's what these plants help us do you know of course you have to put them in the safe setting of course you have to make sure the circumstances are correct for the individual and uh maybe they need a guide maybe they don't need a guide maybe they need a therapist maybe they don't need a therapist but essentially they need to be able to use their own brain and their own cognition to process their you know Some of these resources like the microdosing journal and some of the other ones we're using, they're helping people anchoring in that way and really get their perfect dose if they're microdosing or integrating the right way if they're doing like a big superhero dose. Yeah, man, the possibilities are endless with it, really. Yeah. Maybe you could talk about it. So maybe you could help people. You have a microdosing journal. What is that about? What are you guys doing in that microdosing journal? And if someone buys it, is it sort of like the Fadiman protocol? Or is it more of like a person sits down and writes their feelings? Or maybe you could tell me a little bit about what you got going on. yeah yeah yeah for sure um well this is the microdosing journal here nice yeah we have loads of research one this one's mostly for like like clinical research groups and you know when they have their their participants and volunteers so that's attractive for them um but essentially the inside of most of them are all the same um this is the guidebook so it's a guidebook and it's a tracker and it's a journal The guidebook part is really important because obviously regardless if we're having an emerging licensed field or an emerging decriminalized field in some places, essentially the safety of all individuals and the collective who are using psychedelics is important regardless of decriminalization or not. So resources that help them do it safely will regardless be important. And so what we've made is an introductory part, the part one, maybe you can read that. Yeah. So you've got the part one, part two, part three. The part one is basically about education, saying about, you know, what is microdosing, spirituality and shrooms, what to expect from this guide, what science says, why microdose, the potential risks preparing for your dose. These are really cool because these are dosing protocols. So we create space for people to choose the day cycles or the weekly cycles of their their dosing that they want that work for them and testing out what works for them to get their ideal dose so these are some of the things that are added because you have to have all these considerations really if we're looking at this thing like from a medicinal perspective then it's like any other medicine you need to track the amounts that you take you need to adjust the amounts that are being taken and you need to understand how to get people to that space where they understand their dose isn't it it's gonna it's just I mean that part's just yeah like it's an emerging field but it has so many gaps man and that's what we're we're looking at it like come on we can make this experience for the patients for the collective actually something more insightful something more you know yeah And so we've got like art therapy all the way through it. We've got like reflection sections where they can do that. And then this is where it's been really smashing things. It's our daily log session. So the daily log, this is where the data is really important and it becomes so data driven. You've got like the strain, the day, what was it? The day, the strain, the dosage you're taking on that day, the last dosage day. And then all these other little features like the intention setting, the mood, the sleep quality, you know, your productivity, all these things that you can track, whether you're microdosing mushrooms or any other type of plant medicine, it's going to help you to write it down. Yeah, without a doubt. You know what would be an epic companion to that is if you guys have an app. It would be sick to have an app so people could put that digitally into their phone, and then they could set up alerts and stuff like that. And on top of that, once you begin building that community, if you have an app, you could begin building a community where you could have people come together and meet every Thursday, and you could have a little circle and ceremony with people like that, man. That would be pretty sick. These are great ideas, man. Thank you. these are great ideas it's funny you say about the app because we are working on a prototype at the moment with some really cool features I can't mention right now but we're working with some cool teams like about the data stuff yeah getting the data a bit more interactive in some way um yeah so people can they can see it you know and they can really just breathe life into their their intuitive process and their insights and and bringing that you know, with a bit more solidity. I think that my biggest issue with the industry so far, and the gaps in my biggest industry, not with the industry, but with the gaps in the industry that have been, is that it leaves a lot of people airy-fairy. Like it takes people up, and the systems that we have, of course they help bring people down safely. But a lot of people I encounter, it's like they didn't come all the way down, like they didn't hit the ground so firmly. Yeah, that makes me kind of sad to have a world of airy-fairy people. I prefer rock-solid humans who are super integrated and just understand and understand themselves and will push forward for that and not be scared of themselves. Yeah, that's what I noticed. What do you think about that idea, essentially, that some people don't come all the way down and don't fully get to integrate? It's a great point. And I think that the entire... I think that this is something that is, has been going on since time immoral. You know, it's like, it's such as the idea of the journey is so personalized. Like everybody has like their own sort of ups and downs and there's no real linguistic pathway to thoroughly to describe to somebody what's happening. So you may think that they only come halfway down a little bit, but the truth is, you know, how, How do you explain to somebody what halfway down is? How do you explain to somebody that, hey, you're still going to see trails or you know what? You may not thoroughly understand the the ideas that were taught to you until four days later. You know, it's it's I can say all these things, but it's like it's it's. it's the experience and what the experience is its own language and the more experience you have the more familiar you are with the language it's almost like psychedelics are an exogenous neurotransmitter and when we take them we're able to take in the environment and it speaks to us in a way that's beyond words it's beyond language and you know this when you travel If you want to learn a language, the best way to do it is to go to another country and just listen. That's what you're doing on a trip is you're listening to nature talking. And it takes a while to pick it up, man. So I'm with you, man. I think we're trying to figure this out right now. And that's why I'm excited for young guys like you, man. I think you have a real opportunity. Thank you. Thank you. And I love the way that you leaned into it with that information. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, right? Like, what do you think about what I'm saying? Or I'm sure your own experience is about, you know, let's use psilocybin, for example, right? In your opinion, and I don't think anybody knows for sure, but what's going on there? Is that like a symbiotic relationship? Is that the plant talking to us? Is that God? Is that divinity? What is going on in your opinion, man? What do you think is happening there? With mushrooms and psilocybin. I mean, the space is about the mycelium network and stuff. So I guess that's the grassroots part of what's going on, is that there's an interconnected network under the ground on this earth that we walk on that supports us and keeps us standing and never falls away. And underneath there, there's a network, the mycelium network, and the mycelium network... It's almost like a web connection, it's almost like the internet and it has all of the information of the land, all of the information of the soil, all of the information of the tectonic plates and how those are moving and the different ways our planet is affected by nature. And all that information is essentially in this web, this mycelium network, and then the fungi grow. So that's the process of the grassroots situation. But yeah, it's tapped into the cosmic. It's completely tapped into the cosmic as well. i think I think it really allows people to feel let alone let alone see not everybody gets to really see from it but but everybody gets to feel you know everybody gets to process something somatically and and I think that's something truly beautiful about it and people who have never been spiritual before get to access that part of themselves which is you know very fruitful because uh Essentially, spirituality has been the pillar for us all forever as humans, basically. There's something about spirituality that we've always been tapped into in some way, shape or form in all cultures. It was really funny to me because I live near St Catherine's Monastery And St. Catherine's Monastery is one of the most protected monasteries on the planet. It's never been invaded or anything like that. But it has been there has been collaborations. So one of the collaborations was with the Greeks. And when you go there, you have like you have like all this artistry of like of like. moses and and and and almost like these like uh like these uh what are they called like they're like mysterious spiritual groups I can't remember the the key phase but they're like mysterious spiritual groups from from from old and you can see them in the artwork and stuff anyway the the even bigger kicker is that you can't really take photos in there and the even bigger kicker is they have a special room that only that only certain people can go to into or if you've got like a friend anyway one of the the people who can go in there are greek people because uh essentially the whole room and all these ancient books it's library of like ancient old huge 700 year old books are like written in greek and so my friend he's greek and he went like three days ago and he showed me like he went on a three-day tour really immersed himself and got to read these ancient books almost like he's reading shakespearean or something right wow man it was it was just phenomenal to see because there's this uh there's these flowers in the garden of the monastery right beautiful flowers they look like tulips almost like you've got purples you've got yellows you've got reds everything anyway I said what are those he asked me what are those I said I'm not maybe they're tulips or something and he said no they're puppies and it blew my mind because I kind of leaned back for a second and I had to say well and I said well did they did they use those in their spiritual practice he said it's called sankara and It's almost like an ayahuasca that they would use for their mystery practice, for them to connect to their cosmic experience. And they would have their own process of boiling it and then taking the seeds out and then smoking those seeds. And so he got to understand that whole process. We've been doing this forever, even in, you know, like... early days of Judaism and early days of like Abrahamic faith it was still going on so it fascinates me the history of how we've been doing this and yeah that's just a little bit of information from the land that I am on right now yeah it makes sense you know and some I think One could easily make the argument that cultures, are operating, cultures are a direct reflection of the drugs they use on a daily basis. And if you look at like, you know what I mean? Like if you look at like the West where we run on alcohol, we're like a bunch of just belligerent boozers that always want to go out and fight everybody, man. But when you start peeling back the onion, you start looking like the people that run on psilocybin or people that run on ayahuasca or It's a whole different culture that has a whole other technology behind it and a whole different way of relationships, of relating to one another. Drugs are with us forever. That's phenomenal that you said that as well, because it's funny, like relationships and social stuff. Because I was having some phone calls yesterday. I have phone calls and create relationships all the time. That's like a huge part of what I get to do. And then I have teams to do other stuff. I had a banging call yesterday with a lady in the Netherlands. She has like a microdosing company. But here's the kicker. the hook is that her microdosing company is to encourage people to get off of alcohol and it's more of like a social anxiety group where they create all these games and they use they feel a lot more light-hearted after quitting like like a lot of her clients are not necessarily addicted to to alcohol but they have reliance on alcohol and things like this and she's just been getting people out of their comfort zone or making people feel in their comfort zone and feel a lot more easy socially and in their relationships and that was that's been huge because now we can create a counter culture or at least a parallel culture it doesn't necessarily have to be counter of people who don't need to rely on alcohol and don't feel the pressure in the same ways as before to drink around their friends just because they're waking up a bit and watching a bit of Joe Rogan or got some magic cards that they flip every morning. You can definitely find your tribe and find what's comfy for you socially because social anxiety is definitely real for people. Yeah. I think it's fascinating to think about relationships and if we just stay there for a moment when I you know I used to smoke cigarettes when I was younger like I would go out have a few drinks I always wanted a cigarette like when you smoke that cigarette after the first couple of drinks is like a good cigarette man yeah however as I got older and like I i stopped smoking and then I would chew like I would dip sometimes but then I realized like I changed my relationship with tobacco. Whenever you change the way you consume something, you're changing your relationship with it. And I started growing like a different kind of like a Hopi. They call it Hopi tobacco. And I started growing that and just chewing those leaves. And it's way less concentrated. It doesn't have any other chemicals in it. And again, it changed my relationship with the plant and it changed the way I feel. It changed the way I could act with myself. And so I think that you were right on the money when you start talking about relationships, anxiety, microdosing, and just changing our relationship. Like anxiety is a relationship to the world, right? And when you feel it, it's probably being trapped in the future on some level. But yeah, it's amazing to see how it's a global phenomenon. And it seems to be happening right now with all these particular psychedelics making their way into our relationships. It is already, already, it's happening. Do you think that there's a potential for, I know in the 60s, things became a counterculture. They became combative on some level. And psychedelics have that property too, right? Like they make us see authority in a way that's like, wait a minute, what are you guys talking about? Why? They make us ask questions like, why? And sometimes people in authority don't like that question. yeah well I mean I mean, firstly, I want to say I love my role, like the background of my role. I love my role because I get to deal with like, I get to deal with everybody. I get to deal with like, I get to deal with everybody, you know, like from like the super duper upscale retreat centres to just normal grassroots people who are doing like doing sessions in London, you know, like just doing shadow work groups and stuff and amongst all of that what I'm seeing in comparison to what happened in the 60s and 50s is that you know people are just being like institutions and groups are being a lot more mindful I think it's really important to note that back in the 50s and 60s when they were doing clinical trials There was no clinical registered concept for PTSD. It didn't exist yet. So basically, from a not even just a collective perspective, but just from a biomedical perspective, we weren't even as empathetic about mental health back then. we didn't even really we weren't as empathetic about mental health back then you know PTSD wasn't real it wasn't really coined but now we have that and it seems that as I do so much research about the landscape and the broadness of the landscape it seems like we have we have really locked in on all of those all of those old ways like you know It feels like that's out the way and we've understood what we need to do to keep it going in an ethical way and consider the patients and consider the users and consider the therapists and the aftercare of the therapists and the shamans because they're all humans too and it's a whole ecosystem of healing essentially going on. And it's more of an authentic thing. It's not like a put this in your mouth and shut it up thing. It's like you really got to deal with your stuff and it will help you. So it means that everybody's got to get supported essentially. And so I feel like my mission is to just do my best to make sure that the ecosystem itself is strong and that the ecosystem is good for everybody and has logic in it and just makes sense. Like, yeah, we should be tracking these doses and making it make sense. Yeah, we should be supporting these therapists and making it make sense for them as well. And anything beyond that as well. Anything beyond. Those are where I put my thoughts and what I'm really obsessed about. And I just want to help. So, yeah. Yeah, I think you are helping in a lot of ways. And I think you're building bridges. And I think what you touched upon a lot is this new sort of... It's like... bio scientific therapeutic. Like we're, we're beginning to really, you know, work on the mind body problem. Like you're seeing science come together with spirituality. And I know that science wants to track everything and spirituality. It's like, this is ineffable. You can't talk, you know, you, there's no words for it, but beginning to see these two points converge. And I think that that's really healthy, right? Yes. Very, very, very healthy. It's huge and it is that convergence is going to be important. um it's encouragement like I come from if I could explain my spiritual background it's really nothing to do with psychedelics my spiritual background is like I came from the gospel church when I was a when I was younger my mom used to she used to sing in the in the choir and it was really funky you know like it was a really funky type of spirituality there's a band you know there's like people really letting go and having like like uh somatic healing experiences like every sunday it's amazing And when we tap into that and really just allow it to be, we can see that Whatever people decide to do, whatever individuals decide to do, it can work for them, but they need the encouragement. Like that kind of environment that I grew up in with the gospel, it is literally a framework built on encouraging people. Who do you think's in the band? Well, it's like Hazel's son that she just kept pushing and being like, go speak to Jonathan over there because he's going to help you play the guitar. And it kind of has that encouraging aspect to it. And when we do do that and encouraging new habits, encouraging people to converge this spiritual nature, and you know not keeping it up in the mind for too long really writing it down there's so much science which the science really says that writing it down gets it to come down you know out of your head and that's all we've got to do is just get that habit to go and then when people like you said like you might not really understand what's happened for three four days but then you can go back and look what you wrote that time and and it's exactly what you wrote you know it's exactly how you felt it's exactly the dose that you took and and and um this is going to be useful this is going to be important to like actually shape the habits of this new emerging industry the habits of this new emerging industry are essentially going to shape how this medicine works for us as a collective and so yeah it's well said it's really well said I i i It's like the ultimate tool to rediscover your relationship with yourself. That's something that has been absent for so long. And I love the way you talk about a somatic healing. You talk about a container, whether it's the community, whether it's the gospel, whether it's a ceremony. You're talking about this container in which you get to be safe, but you also get to... you know be without judgment in this container whether you're talking to jonathan to play guitar or whether you're laying on a couch crying thinking about the time you and your uncle got in this fight you know what I mean yeah like honor it all like oh no yeah yeah It's interesting that you bring up music. Is that something that is in the Microdosing Journal? Do you speak to the idea of how music can be an ally during one of these events? In the Microdosing Journal, there's like a creativity section. We ask some cool questions. for creative specifically, like journaling prompts about that. But it's funny, you mentioned about psychedelics and music because I was watching a really cool, I think it was Berkeley. Berkeley have like some cool videos that they link to YouTube and the guy's talking about like psychedelics and music. And yeah, we put it on our TikTok the other day. It was huge because basically music already does so much for the brain. it's like psychedelics is turning that up uh-huh yeah there's the wind yeah It blows my mind to think that the... What was your mind? Pardon the pun. Yeah, pun intended. It's the idea of creativity that comes from psychedelics is... maybe this speaks to the idea of awareness, right? Like maybe we are always creative. We're just not aware of these certain little triggers around us that help us tune into that creativity. But what do you think about when I say the word awareness? Like what comes to mind when you think about awareness? What comes to mind? The words like subtle, and things like dissolving as well, like dissolving, this kind of imagery. And if you spend time with like a cat or something, you learn what awareness is like very quickly. If you just kind of chill with a cat and allow them to do their thing. Yeah, so those are the three things, subtleness, dissolving, cats. I got two of them. I get it, man. And it's... I think it speaks to the idea of boundaries, you know, the dissolution of boundaries. Like, of course you're going to be more aware of things when the boundaries between you are pulled away or a curtain is pulled away and you begin to see things more clearly. Like the doors of perceptions are cleansed, right? Yes. Yes. The doors of perceptions are cleansed. Bitching. Like so. Yeah, exactly. You know, sometimes I wonder, like I get to speak to some really cool people throughout the world and I've yet to do this experiment, but you know, it's, it's interesting. Do you think that perhaps the environment, we know set and setting are a big role, but maybe certain ailments, like maybe anxiety is, could be more apt to being solved in the desert with a dose of psilocybin than in the jungle I'm wondering if in the future we'll be able to somehow match that up like is this environment good for anxiety or is this one good for depression or is there a blood type or is there a certain sort of a targeted therapy in a targeted area is that too far out there what do you think I don't think that's too far. I think that's working exactly with nature, how nature intended, definitely. I think that's a phenomenal perspective and an experiment that is really interesting because I live here by the mountains and the sea, right? And so... they say like mountains are great for uh like grounding your manifestations they're great for feeling inspired they're great for taking in breaths of life they're great for all these things and it says go to the sea go to the sea to release go to the sea to you know um and and and and so you might think about forests like they're also very grounding too you know and and um I guess when it comes to the environment and stuff, it's going to be important for people to get outside. One thing I always knew was that the outdoors is actually your best friend when it comes to psychedelics. The more space that you have, uh not only enhance your experience but it'll make you feel more safe essentially make you feel more safe especially with good people and being in the desert is a very interesting concept I can speak about being in the desert because you mentioned that yeah and I'll tell you how to see you can see you can it's nothing to be afraid of essentially it's just nature and people just just like having like a cognitive moment of like shit this is what nature is and this is my relationship to it it's not my little room my little bedroom or downstairs so nature for example when you go to the sea I remember the first time I swam I was like, there's so much space in the sky. And like, it means that this water, there's like so much space underneath me. So what do I grab onto kind of thing? You know, like what do I hold onto in this kind of space? And the desert is similar. The desert has so much sky space. And then even these mountains, they're so solid, but you can go up to the boulders and stuff. And you can literally, with your hands, just be like... and it's like what happens to to someone's reality when that's their environment if you see where I'm coming from yeah it's like it's so spacious and and there's nothing really to hold on to and and that's a beautiful paradigm to really accept yeah so I think your idea with and looking at it and saying, do we have ideal spaces for certain types of ailments? And if we do, then should we start making trips to those places for those types of ailments? And how can we help these people more? And does it really, really, really, really improve their healing process and really have to be some sort of double blindfold, but that's dope. Why not? Yeah. Yeah, I like it too. I think there's something there. We should work on it together, man. Figure out a way to document it. And I'm sure that we may not be able to control for all the variables, but we could probably put something out there that would be fun for people to read. Yeah, exactly. Experiments are really cool regardless of how far you get or how close you get. It's the journey that's important and the clarity that's important on the way. The ounce of clarity is just as good. yeah it's true it's the hero's journey on some level that's when I when I you know I'm always scared like when I'm gonna take a dose of of mushrooms or something you know I always find myself like oh am I gonna do that right now I'm gonna do right now okay I chop it up I'm looking at it and I'm like okay that's kind of a macro dose you know I like the macro dose I i I feel as if I'm not afraid, then A, I'm not taking it seriously, and B, I'm not taking a big enough dose. Those are the two things that I want to see when I'm looking at it, because I want to be like, all right, I'm taking this seriously, and I want to be able to have a dose in which I'm going to be touching the boundaries. I want to learn something more, and so it's like I got to go a little further out on the edge, and I got to make sure everything's right. So But there's always this sense of like a little bit of fear, which I think is a healthy thing. Like you should be a little bit afraid, right? Like if you're going to be working on things or what's your take on that? I really need to hear that. I'm a musician so the first thing that kind of comes to mind is like music and I've got some people encouraging me to do more at the moment and they were like play that song and I've been working on a song and I'm working on my song inside my room and with my friends like socially you know they were like perform that thing now and I'm like I perform all the time but for some reason it was like That seems scary for a moment. And I can't remember exactly what I did straight away. But the impulse was like to run away or something. Like the impulse was to run. But what I did was put myself like right in the center of the room. where the audience could like fully see me and I just smashed out the song and it was like with live music and stuff sometimes like the first couple cycles are not so sexy but then it becomes sexy and it gets to something and so with me and understanding about testing the boundaries it is just diving in it is just like it's seeing what scares you and then just diving straight in because you know what scares you is going to help you grow yeah Certainly. I really love that. And I love that about your approach as well, George. Many of your insights today, I know they're going to be useful to me in some way. So thank you. Vice versa. That's why I love doing this, talking to people. As a musician, I'm curious, do you think that your way you live your life is analogous to the music you make? I'm curious to that relationship. Like our... What is that relationship between the music you make and the life you live? What's that relationship between the music I make and the life I live? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I write lyrics. I write lyrics and I sing and I play guitar and stuff. And so I write. in a way that is about my my life experience but it's also uh to help people like overcome stuff so yeah I write almost like almost like how some people may write to themselves in a journal when they want to like pick themselves up that's that's That's how I want to speak to myself and that's how I speak to myself in my songs and that's how I speak to my audience through my music as well. I have lots of different types of people around me in my life. I'm a sort of medical friend, so it's also a bit like this kind of thing, it's the way that I hold space, I teach Tai Chi, so I guess not only am I working on this, but I'm also just a normal guy who is a bit of a hippie as well, and likes to teach, and likes to hold space, and likes to live from the heart and stuff, so it does reflect in my music, and people won't touch me, so it's a bit like that. Yeah. music is a really powerful thing. I encourage anybody who has ever thought about learning a musical instrument or learning how to sing or something, I'm telling you it's human-made but it's actually within you and you can totally recover from it obviously. and just know that you're not unfamiliar with music because everybody's been listening to music since forever. Music and rhythm is really just a part of our lives. Some people say that some people are more tapped into it than others, but truly the synapses in your brain are really unique and you can hook everything up. You can get your system fully on board, don't have to have a phone. and music is huge. I would say that learning to play guitar nearly two years ago was the biggest thing for me accessing my healing. It's been bigger than anything else. It's been like everything else, it's not disregarding everything else, And it's been like my biggest tool. It's been like my Thor's hammer, you know, like to really get everything to come down in a way that feels right for me. But then I can be like, well, there's a sound check. How's that feel, bro? You know, like this is my message, but how's that message feel? That's the message that I want to bring through. And that really just locks it in. You were playing some reggae on the way where we first got here. Some Bob Marley, I think. It's the one language that does bring us together. It's fascinating to think about. it would be interesting to hook up like a, I forgot what they call them, like an EKG or do like an fMRI or do some sort of like neurofeedback when you're playing music to see what parts of your brain light up and then to see what parts of your brain light up when you talk and then what's on psychedelics and then put all those together and understand like a personal-based interaction you know, language models. to see all the different parts of your brain light up and like, okay, the hypothalamus and then, oh, my prefrontal cortex and like when sound comes in, like, I think you could, I think this is where we're coming to, Rhys. I think we're moving into this space where personalized medicine and the individual can learn in tailored ways that have been unable to them before. That's right. That's right. And that makes me like, if we look at like the broader scope of that, because yes, what you're saying is how it's going to work. it excites me because when we look at how that will affect humanity to me that's really important that we'll have more integrated humans who understand themselves and who can like and understand that these are all humans, so we should be empathetic to all of them, all of our people, because we don't know what's going on with them, but if we have that, they can feel more helped, you know? And I see it every day. times a day where I'm like really hard but it's for certain things but with people I'm kind of like a no pressure kind of person and like to see how anxiety drops off people when I approach life like that like literally I see it drop I'm like that's on the floor now melted like an ice cream on the highway like what Oh, man. And that kind of world excites me. Yeah, you're right. Me being young and in this space, it's an honour, really, because then I get to see how this is going to shape and I also get to influence the shape of it as well in some way, shape or form. And that's really exciting for me and I'm really just grateful to be here about that. Yeah. Imagine being someone who pioneers a new way of learning. Like imagine singing a song or writing music about quadratic equations and teaching a child that way. So the same way you write music, what if you could write algorithms or what if you could write math problems and teach someone that way? If you could sing division, if you could sing multiplication. you stacking your lyrics like that like that is where we're going and it takes creative people like you to bend the rules and create new pathways man I see it brother I see it with you I feel it brother I love it man why not right yeah right on right talk yeah man yeah And so I guess my question to you is, and it may not be as exciting as we were questioning, but my question to you is, ultimately, what are some of the largest and most easily digestible lessons that you can bring down that you've experienced with dosing that may help some of your viewers? It's a great question, and thanks for asking. I think trust. I think for me, so many of my escapades to the edge of my, you know, the limits of comprehension and understanding, when I finally bring them back, I think they... They speak to me in trust, and I think that's a personal problem that I've had a lot of my life. When I start on some big doses, I realize some of these trust issues that I have are not even mine. My dad was adopted, and I feel like on some level, I'm... i am living his feeling of being abandoned and never being enough and like that is somehow coded into me because he felt so painful about it you know maybe it came from his dad I don't know but like this idea that like it's more than yours like you're holding all this shit it's not even yours man you're holding on to it it's in your genetic code and And sometimes you can, on a really deep dose, man, you can see yourself as a third person from way up here on the mountain. And you go, oh, you know what George's problem might be? He might need to work on this fear of trust, man. It looks like he's alienating himself, you know? And then you come back and you're like, man, I don't even know my wife's favorite color. Jesus, what the hell's wrong with me? I better go figure that out right now. Or you know what? I haven't sat down with my daughter and I don't even know what instrument she wants to play. But sometimes these giant doses show us who we are in a third person perspective. And it can be hard, man. It can show you things that you do not want to see that you've been blocking out because you're afraid to face them, man. So this This intermingling of courage and trust are some of the biggest issues that I've had to integrate in my life. It hasn't been easy. It's been like deep breath and dive in the water, man. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing your insights, man. Yeah. Lance. Yeah. Lance, Lance, Lance. Wow. Wow. Georgia. It's crazy, right? It's interesting to think about. What are some things that you're excited for on the future? So you've got that book out now. Is there going to be like a second edition to it or an appendix to it or groups that come with it? How is that moving along? Yeah. Well, you can reach out to me on LinkedIn. My name is Reece Dunn. It's R-E-E-C-E-D-U-N-N. So what we've been doing is providing the journals for psychedelic therapy spaces, like licensed psychedelic therapy spaces in Canada, in Australia, and also more like retreat centers, so places in Ecuador and in Jamaica. And then like more grassroots healers as well, just getting stuff to them and getting stuff to different core distributors. And yeah, it's been really cool. Just basically creating the journals in bulk, making different covers for people and their communities, making sure that the cover... Because essentially, I need you to know that we started off as formatting specialists because it was just a journaling company for wellness journals. So we're great with design. And so with the design skills that we have, we made the book, but we can also tailor new books to people with our template. We have a phenomenal template. Yeah, that's some of the stuff that we do. We, for example, make like an iboga guidebook. So it's the same kind of thing, but with a particular iboga center's specific protocols and approaches in the guidebook. And we work closely with them to create, you know, something that is for them and for their patients. And so... Yeah, that's one of the things we do. We also just do the microdosing journal, but with like new covers and stuff. But different types of microdosing journals. I'm really open to collaborations because I recognize, like you said, about the macro experience. Safety is still going to be important for that, right? And like getting people to understand what's really going on on the long-term view of them being a doser. But the approach is to be a micro-doser and the approach is to be a macro-doser, two different things, right? So to tailor something around that. is going to be really important and it feels like it's on the horizon as well. So that's the kind of stuff that I do and that we do at Better Energy Books and if there's anybody who's out there who's interested in it please do reach out to me. I'm just a normal guy as you can see from the call and yeah I'm here to help. It's awesome man. Well, Reese, I'm super stoked to hang out with you, man. I know it's probably getting hot over there on top of the building in the middle of the – by the Red Sea over there. And I'm really thankful for your time, man. And we should talk more often and have more conversations about things that are happening. So one more time though for people that are wanting to reach out and maybe get a hold of you. Where can they find you and – So you can find me on LinkedIn at Reece Dunn. That's R-E-E-C-E-D-U-N-N. And yeah, I'm a publishing specialist, Saidi Industry Solutions. And yeah, you could just reach out to me and I'm a cool guy. So just, that's it. And thank you so much, George, for bringing me today because, and big up to Bob Whitty as well. Yeah, shout out to Bob. Yeah, yeah. Did you see that shark that you posted yesterday? Yeah, big shark out there and they still surf, right? Big up. So I'm really honored. It's been a phenomenal conversation, George. I'm so happy. I feel like the diggings have taken place, you know? The diggings, the diggings, the diggings have taken place. So it's good. And if we could come see you in Hawaii sometime, that would be dope as well. Yeah, man. We're building bridges. That would be even more amazing, man. Absolutely, man. Let's build some bridges. Well, hang on briefly afterwards. I'm going to hang up with everybody else, but I'll talk to you just briefly afterwards. To everybody that hung out with us, Bob, Mark, John, everybody that's over in the comments, thank you so much for hanging out. I hope everybody has a beautiful day. And that's all we got. Amazing day. That's all we got. Take care.