Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life Podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining and the birds are singing and the wind is at your back. I have an incredible show for you today with an incredible individual who I think is miles ahead of everybody when it comes to creating the future. And I want to introduce everybody. It's with great excitement that I introduce to you a true pioneer in the realms of creativity and innovation, Daniel Gonay. With a career spanning over six years in the dynamic field of copywriting, Daniel's journey epitomizes versatility and ingenuity. From his humble beginnings crafting blog content for the entertainment industry to honing his skills as a specialized copywriter in healthcare, Daniel's trajectory has been nothing short of remarkable. How However, it is his unwavering curiosity and bold exploration into the intersection of technology and fashion that truly is one of the things that sets him apart. Harnessing the power of genitour of AI imagery, Daniel has embarked on a groundbreaking endeavor, giving life to the visionary concept of singularity, a digital fashion brand where artificial intelligence meets hot take culture. Through the exceptional storytelling, meticulous research, and boundless creativity, Daniel has not only redefined the boundaries of fashion, but has also illuminated the limitless possibilities that emerge when human ingenuity converges with cutting-edge technology. Daniel, thank you so much for being here today. How are you? Yeah, thank you for having me, George. It's lovely to be here. I was very excited when you contacted me. I'm so happy to talk about this. It's a very passionate subject for me. Well, I think it is contagious. I think that what you have begun to do is sort of breathe on the embers of this creative fire that you're beginning to start, man. And it's beautiful. And I'm going to hand it back to you. Maybe wherever you want to start at, man. I think it's fascinating. I kind of got goosebumps thinking about it. Let me just throw it back to you, man. Okay, cool. I mean, I'd love to start at the beginning of, you know, how technology helps us, you know, do more things. And I feel like at this point, like, you know, AI is evolving so quickly right now and, you know, everything is moving, it's in motion, it's going super fast and it's going faster and faster. And people are getting a little bit scared about how fast AI is growing. But I always give the example of how we started in school when suddenly the calculator appeared and anyone could do math within seconds. And everyone was a math genius because they could suddenly solve all these equations by using a calculator. And I feel like it enabled us to become proficient in math. And I feel like AI is enabling us to do so many things that we wouldn't be able to do by ourselves before AI existed. And it's a great enabler. I feel like, for example, now with generative imagery and generative text, there's a lot of room for ideation. You can experiment much faster. You don't need a whole team of designers, photographers, writers. You can sit there in your own room and you can do whatever you want and you can just experiment away. And it's so good to get those creative, the creative fire flowing. Yeah, it's amazing to me. When I first started researching you, I think I was talking with Haley Joy, who does some fashion out of South Africa. And she had mentioned this article to me. And I started reading through your stuff. And I looked through this magazine. And I'm like, this is like this really high-end magazine. It looks like they've got some beautiful models in there. And their clothing is dynamite. Now, I'm not a fashion consultant or anything like that. But You know, I'm married to an incredibly lovely woman who likes the fashion designs and stuff like that. And I've been fortunate enough to talk to some really cool people in the fashion world on my podcast. And when I saw the magazine, I'm like, whoa, look at this. This is amazing. Like the artwork, the pictures, the articles, like everything in here is fascinating. Maybe you could just drop the bomb on people and tell people who the editor is and how all that kind of stuff came to be, man. Yeah, it's interesting because if you look at the product itself, you see a whole magazine, you see professional photography, you see a whole editing section of written articles about subjects, about fake people, because I created all these fake personas for them so they really exist in the digital world. And it's funny because I did it all by myself. Usually, if you make a magazine like this, you need an entire team with a content calendar, you need planning meetings, you need designers, photographers, you need to go to a studio and there's all this stuff connected. And not to mention, you need to find the proper models for them. So it was interesting to me when all these tools started to appear. Like, you know, you had Dolly, for example, and you had Midjourney and then Leonardo came along. There's so many tools. Everyone's competing with each other who's trying to be the best. And I found actually that Leonardo AI, it's a program I used to make all these pictures with, is exceptionally good. exceptional at making all these realistic photographs. It's really good for close ups and making people as real as possible. And I feel like you can really experiment with all these different cultures, bringing them to life and experimenting with all these clothes. And I think it's a combination of tools now. There's so many tools around the Internet now. I use the combination of you know leonardo photoshop canva issue for the magazine design and my own writing skills to write the articles and I think if you pull all these different tools together you can become this this one-man army another one-man band kind of thing you can just yeah you know create everything on your own and it's really empowering I feel i I'm not sure that there's a really big enough word to describe it on some level. When I see you put these tools together, I began thinking of a well-choreographed dance with a song behind it. You've used all these tools to put together like a living image in a way. Maybe you could speak to that relationship. I know that when you use Leonardo AI, you had mentioned that if you name the model, then it begins to build on that model going forward. Can you explain that a little bit more? Yeah, so this process is called name tagging. So basically you give the AI the name of a specific character you want to keep creating. So this is in combination with what they call the seed. And the seed is assigned to a specific generation, making sure that the AI knows, okay, you like this generation, let's stick to it, right? So it knows that a specific design or a specific character prompt or outcome is going to be reused. And if you use this in combination with name tagging, so you actually create, it's almost like you're writing a novel, right? You're creating all these characters, you're creating living beings. And if you stick to these names and you keep reusing them, you'll see that the same face is going to pop up over and over. So you can start to actually work with people you start to recognize. Like, oh, hey, this is Alex and this is Stephanie. You start to recognize these faces and you start actually building up a company almost of virtual employees. It's really interesting. And it's being done all over the world in different formats. For example, you might have seen the Japanese. They have a specific influence here that's completely AI-generated. And she's raking in tons of money with sponsorship deals and she doesn't even exist. But people see a person and they want to interact with that person. So that's also interesting where you see that people can attach emotion to something because it looks human. that's a very interesting concept in technology as well and one of the main reasons I feel like you know if we go further with ai and we move it into the whole uh world of androids that are you know that are being built as well this confluence of you know putting ai and androids together and they always try to make them look human because then we get uh we'll feel sympathy for them and that's the same what you get with with these pictures that I generate they look so human so real there's not a single and well I was about to say there's not a single flaw on them but that's not true because the flaws on them make them real right and that's what leonardo does really well they put like little wrinkles in the face maybe some mole here and there you know it's like uh it's it's like the imperfections make it perfect and I think that's that's where you find the reality between ai and life so that's that's uh I think that that's the biggest difference there Yeah. It seems that we've crossed the uncanny valley when it comes to that particular area right there. And hence the name of the magazine, like Singularity. Like I see this thread that runs through the tapestry, like a science fiction thread that's kind of running through the work. And then you could speak to that a little bit. I've always been obsessed with sci-fi and the whole cyberpunk theme. And cyberpunk, of course, is a more dystopian view on the future. But it's interesting to see how the power of AI can enable us to create all these different and new lives. And of course, some people might say it's quite dystopian to be creating fake people because there are a lot of great models out there who would love to model for all sorts of magazines. But I feel like it's also that, you know, you try to create something out of nothing. And I think that's what creativity is in its core, right? You create something out of nothing. And AI is, it takes, of course, it takes samples from existing uh images you know but it's it's it's a confluence it's you you take something a little bit from everything you make something new with it and I feel like that's creativity to its core um and and you know I i think in in the future we we we all strive to to for this this sort of perfection you know and it's uh and I think ai is is very good in enabling this kind of perfection absolutely I think there's something to be said about shattering boundaries and limitless imagination. And while on some level I can see the people in the industry being like, wait a minute, this doesn't shoot like a real model. Or what about this girl over here? You know, but I can get that, but, but isn't there a flip side to where, Hey, how about, how about Daniel? who has an idea and a passion for fashion and sci-fi, why can't he be a major player as an individual and compete with these giant brands that maybe have lost their way a little bit? On some level, I think it's incredibly powerful that an individual can just step up to the plate and be like, you know what? Let me show you guys what I know how to do. I think that's incredibly liberating and beautiful. That's one reason I think what you're doing is so magnetic, man. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, absolutely. You're so right about this. And I think that's why I keep repeating the word empowering because AI enables even a solopreneur with a new business to become really powerful by just using AI and a combination of tools. For example, take a hairdresser, right? And she creates a new company and she's not known. She doesn't have a big budget, but she needs... these expensive models to show off her new hairstyles, right? She can prompt together with AI to get those hairstyles on non-existing models, which look perfect for her posters or advertisements. And she suddenly has a really professional looking brand without ever hiring a photographer or use a photo studio or anything at all. And she doesn't have to pay any money for owning the rights to the face, right? For models have very expensive rights for that. So I feel like, again, it really enables people to become their best self, I think, because it's just like when I go back to the calculator and you struggle with math and suddenly you have a calculator and you can work with math, you can experiment with it. It's the same with AI. It allows you to do so many things when you're not really skilled at it at first. And it's funny because I spoke to a colleague last week about this and they said like, well, isn't it too easy? Like what you're doing, you know, like you're just generating this and it makes it for you. And I'm always telling like, well, it's the idea still comes from you. Like I always see it like a employer. intern relationship. The AI is your intern. They can do a lot of things, but they need a lot of guidance. You need to be able to know the field to be able to work with the AI in that field because you know what to prompt, you know what to ask, and you know what to improve on because you have the vision for it. There's still a lot of Creativity needed to be working with AI in that field. But if you have that spark, if you have that within you, I think you can really take off real fast. Yeah, I agree. I think it speaks to this sort of evolution... of language on some level. I think that so many people have great ideas and that the institutions of the past have been semi successful at translating ideas into reality, semi successful. But now the individual doesn't have to go to like, you don't have to sit and listen to a person who's gone to school their whole life, but maybe never actually did something. you know, you as an individual, you can get some real lived experience. You get this real experience trying it out for yourself. It's like going to the ski slope and learning to ski. You can go and take lessons until you're blue in the face, or you can go to the top of the mountain and start trying to ski down. Yeah, exactly. That's a great example. Yeah. And, and it works the same way with, uh, with, you know, the language learning models like Gemini and chat GPT and, um, For example, I love ChatGPT right now, but I started to work with Gemini more because Gemini really finds this human tone in your writing. And I tested it a couple of times, and I made a couple of posts with ChatGPT, and I've written some pieces with ChatGPT, and then I worked with Gemini right after. And I posted them on LinkedIn, and you could immediately see that people were drawn to the Gemini post because it looked so human. right like there were breaks and the sentences were short sentences not like you know chat gpt has the uh it always tries to tell you this entire novel when you have a simple question right like when you ask like what is a banana and it says like well in the world of yellow curved fruits you know it's like it doesn't just say like it's a fruit it starts this whole you know this this whole speech about how it works um so again it's it's all about like giving direction to your ai um And it enables you to do so, so many things. And I feel like with Singularity, I call it that because I named the brand that way because that's the point where AI becomes smarter than humans, right? That's why I named the brand like that. And I feel like it allows us to create so many more things with AI and into new fields. Like you can experiment with strange things fabrics, you can experiment with strange shapes and it doesn't cost you anything. And I feel like fashion has always been about experimenting with bringing out your true self. And now we get into this really philosophical subject is like, is AI something that's, that can be human, right? Because you make it, but it's, it's created by codes, basically algorithms. So is it still, does it still have the essence of humanity in it? You know, and that's, and I feel like that's, that's currently also a very difficult subject to discuss with, you know, what people mentioned on LinkedIn as well. It's like AI is going to take our jobs away. That's like one of the most made statements about AI. And I feel like, well, I would always say no, it doesn't. It only makes you it puts you in a position where you can guide this AI. You become kind of like the employer. And it takes away the simple tasks and allows you to work on more difficult tasks. And I feel like that's always been the case because even if someone would give me a calculator now, I wouldn't be able to solve the most difficult math formulas because I don't know how math works. And it's the same with AI. It can help me with writing because I'm a copywriter, but I'm not afraid that it will take my job because I still know more about copywriting than an AI. And I have that creative spark that says like, hey, this headline sucks that you just made. We need to redo this, right? So being able to see that, that's what you're hired for. So I feel like in that case, AI enables you to do more with less. And that's a very powerful technological development. Yeah, it's huge. I think fashion is such an incredible area for AI because people, It's a direct reflection of your personality. It's a direct reflection of what you're thinking. It's a direct reflection of how you feel, depending on what type of fabric you use or what color. There's so much meaningful imagery that comes about fashion. And fashion is all about relationships. How does it feel on your skin? How does it make other people feel? How does it make you feel? Do you want eyes on you? Do you want people to look away like... Fashion is a direct reflection of how you're feeling. So I'm curious, is that what it's like? What is the relationship when you begin building models for a magazine and you begin this relationship with them? What is that relationship like? Maybe you could speak to that. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting to look at. I think you always put a part of yourself in what you design. And I feel like this AI enables you to quickly experiment with that kind of feeling. Like you can put something and make it visual, what you feel. And there are no boundaries. You know, you don't have to say like, oh, I want to design a specific dress or whatever. And it's something like, oh, but then I need this whole crew and I need to do this. No, you can just turn on your laptop and you can start creating something that you have in your mind. And I feel like it's the same with all these different models as well. It's interesting because it's almost like you're painting. You're just experimenting. You're using different colors. You create a generation. And then you're like, well, let's give her blonde hair. Let's see how that looks. So you create a new generation. So you're still kind of iterating all these different designs. And you're putting a lot of your own personality in there to see what you want. For me, of course, singularity is my kind of my... a catharsis for seeing a lot of and reading a lot of cyberpunk and sci-fi novels and I feel like I want to see okay what would that look like in a real world so I can kind of make that link with my own imagination and what I'm inspired by and suddenly put that on paper for the world to see and I feel like it's it's very powerful and in the um I mean, you have the feeling as well when you hit that creative chord and you're suddenly so passionate, you forget about time, you forget about everything, you forget about eating, and you're just so absorbed in your work because suddenly you've found something that you can create with and it just vibes with you. And I feel like AI is an excellent assistant in that because you don't waste anything. Nobody's time is wasted but yours in that case because you don't have to talk to anyone. You can do it all by yourself. um you only you just need a laptop and you can go going I mean I built this whole brand around it like with an instagram website uh magazine and it's all done from one single laptop with a couple of tools and it feels like there's there's a team working on this but it's just it's just one person and I find that amazing that's that's what I love about the future what so Let's say that someone's like looking through your magazine and someone's like, you know what? I want to buy this dress. Is there a way for them to like, can you send the specs of that dress and have it made in a way and know that the person that gets it is going to look on them similar to the way it looks on the model in the magazine? It's interesting you mention it because I actually looked into this because I was like, what would happen if, you know, if, because I think the fashion world would technically love it if they, you know, because they love these crazy concepts. And if their models on the catwalk saying like, this was created by AI, people would freak out. Like, That would just, minds blown. And I feel like if you look at fashion designers, for example, what they still do a lot is pen and paper and they sketch out these different outfits. And now I actually basically show them like, why do this with pen and paper? Like you can actually visualize your entire dress already or the suits or whatever, the shirt in AI. Right. and see it live, what it could look like, what your idea could look like. So I feel like while you don't have the exact measurements of these pieces of clothing, it's great to immediately see your idea in the real world, sort of. So it's great. Instead of sketching, you can now almost go to the near-finished product. You only have to make it, but you can already see it. And I feel like this is really special, especially in the fashion world where time and money is really important. But then again, what I've noticed is that due to the arrival of AI, we start to kind of float towards this concept of handcraft that becomes more special now because people are starting to see how easy AI makes something. But then you suddenly see this old violinist repairing his violins by hand with this little glue and all these little tools. And it feels more special suddenly because there's a lot of time and passion put into it. So I feel like the whole concept of... something that's handcrafted now like almost like a seal of approval becomes much more important now in this age of ai um but it doesn't take away that you can still use ai to um you know to to get the idea or to put your ideas on paper it's kind of like an extension of your brain I feel like it's it's that's how it feels to me That's a great way to look at it. You know, when you look at something like the Mona Lisa, like why is that one Mona Lisa worth a billion dollars? But I can just print out a picture of it right now. Well, it's the human component, right? It's the fact that this one individual is no longer with us. It's a great artist. He did it. But on some level, even though we love the gentleman or the woman who is, you know, carving the violin or fixing up the Stratocaster or whatever, on some level, isn't it almost just as beautiful to know that some individual came up with their own idea and they created it for everyone else to enjoy? Like, I think that that is like, And I think that's where we're going. It's like, we're beginning to understand how beautiful and powerful each individual is. Like we're all kind of genius. We're all kind of masters. If you have the courage to believe in yourself and create this thing, like look what you did, man, this magazine's amazing. And like, that is the new stratus caster. It's translating vision into reality and showing everybody else. Look, you can do it, man. Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly how I feel about it. Because it used to be like, oh, you didn't have the right diploma or whatever. Yeah, totally. And now it's like you buy a laptop, you get a subscription on all these tools, and you can start building your own company. So it's great. But I feel like many people misinterpret the amount of effort that actually goes into creating AI. Because for this magazine alone, I think I created over 5,000 pictures. Wow. And I only selected about... know 30 of them because I wasn't happy with the others you know I had to generate new ones I had to adjust the prompt I had to you know because for example in when I started singularity the you know at the start I started creating very conceptual pictures you know like um You had this model was slowly melting into a puddle of ink and she was walking through this dark puddle and just to symbolize some kind of metaphor or emotion. But those kind of pictures were really difficult to make because I wasn't happy with many of them. It had to symbolize how I felt. So I had to generate, generate, generate, generate. And I had to keep going until I found like something you see that and it's like your eyes open a little bit wide. It's like this is the one and you see that design. And usually it's also like this first generation that you eventually pick from this massive selection of generations isn't ready yet. You still need to do some design for it. So I often move it into Photoshop and I start editing out what I call, in this case, the imperfections where, for example, AI has trouble with fingers and has trouble with feet and that's the interesting thing is because our hands and feet are very immobile so all these appendages they can move in any direction so the AI has a lot of difficulty with kind of making a an expectation of where these fingers could go in a picture so it has a lot of trouble of placing them so you definitely need some kind of skill in Photoshop to see like okay I need to redraw these fingers or I need to adjust them a little bit or sometimes you know for one picture for example she had like four or like three really thick fingers and like well the rest of the picture is perfect like I don't want to throw this away so I'm going to fix this hand right so I put it in photoshop I redraw the hand or I you know I reskill the fingers and until it looks good again so it's I really love what it what really excites me is this confluence of and partnership of different tools where you kind of turn it slowly. It's kind of like a conveyor belt. You start with Leonardo, then you go to Photoshop, then you go to Canva, and then you have this finished product where you have all these filters in place. You've done your edits. You've done your generations. So there's quite some work in getting the pictures that you want. But the end result is amazing because sometimes I – send my friends or my colleagues, I send them pictures and I don't see anything. And they say like, and they tell me like, who's this woman? Where did you, you know, does she have a website? I'm like, no, she doesn't exist. I just test them to see like, did I do a good job in making it real? And it works every time. It's really good. With your strategy, do you see like, do you see the when you look down the line for the magazine in your, in your mind, you don't have to give up any secrets or anything, but like, does the model get older? Does she have kids? Does she have a haircut? Like, do you, how far does it go? I mean, does she get in a fight with her husband and get divorced? You know, like, is that in a magazine? Like how far does it go? Yeah. The interesting thing is, well, I mean, I love fiction writing, so it's a great combination where you're, where you're talking about, like, I love creating these personas for them. Right. And in the magazine, if you read specific articles, they actually talk about, you know, their, Like, for example, one of the first models is a Korean model. And I actually have this fake interview with her where I walk to Korea and she tells me about her family and how she got into the modeling business. So I tried to, you know, just like just looking like a human isn't enough. Right. You need to have a personality as well. You need to have a backstory. And, you know, it's an interesting concept is also given in the movie Blade Runner where they have these. these human clones, but they, they aren't human yet. They need memories to feel human. Right. So, and that's the same way you're doing with, with these pictures. Like, especially if you're trying to build a fashion brand like this, you need people to believe that they exist. So they need to have this whole living. They need to become this living entity where they make mistakes or they're disappointed about something or they, they overcame obstacles or whatever. you know, make them human. So, I think there's even a quote in the magazine that says something like, because there's one model, Rosita, she's a Mexican model, and she talks about, you know, she says something like, it's quite, you know, a hectic and chaotic backstage, but I feel like we're all working towards the same goal. And it's just like, It shows the life of being a model, but she doesn't exist. The quote is it doesn't exist either. It's just you show the life around them. And I feel like that's what makes the magazine feel so alive. And that's also how I talk about them on Instagram. I write little stories like Rosita joined us last September. It's almost like she actually joined the brand as a living person. But then again, I'm always upfront about uh, that they, that they are AI generated. So it's always visible in the hashtags. It's, it's visible in the bio of Instagram. You know, it's, it's like this exists in cyberspace only, you know? So it's, um, I'm always upfront by, uh, with it because I feel like if, if, if people know it, then they can, uh, that it can not only see what, what, you know, amazing creation this AI has generated in the end, but it's also that they can, you know, divide it between reality and concepts basically. Yeah, I think that's an important part. It's so fascinating to me to think about the way in which Everything you've learned from doing this magazine and like just what you've explained in this short amount of time. And I love the fact that you're honest upfront and you say, Hey, this happens in cyberspace. And you give the quote about the girl backstage on some level, you explaining to me how you create a fictional model sheds light on how the majority of a lot of models and people personalities in the media are just cutouts. Like they have an ARR person. They have a lawyer that comes in as like, okay, this is the thing you talk about. leave that confederate flag at home leave this over here you know everything exactly but it's the same thing like the same way you create models so too do giant agencies create personas of people and in some level you can see it it drives the individual the artist crazy and some of them commit suicide or they go nuts because they're not them they're just this cut out but you can do the same thing with ai you're shining light on an entire industry it's fascinating Yeah, it's interesting how the brand itself interacts with, because I did some community management as well from the Instagram channel to try and contact real living models and interact with them. And they love it. They love the brand. And I got really good feedback about it. So it's not like they feel threatened about it, like, oh, like AI is going to take my job or something. Because they still feel like I want to be part of this, you know. And I feel like it's interesting when we have, when there would be a magazine, for example, that would be 50-50 AI models and human models just to see and feel the difference between, you know, the emotion from that picture. Is there a visible difference here? Like, do people, you know, notice it at all? Or can they feel and see the soul in their eyes? You know, because it's usually like the eyes are the windows to the soul, right? Yeah. And with AI, it's very important to get those eyes right because they if they look plastic at all, you can see it immediately. Um, but it's interesting to see how, how, you know, how you react with, uh, or interact with actual models. And they respond to my pictures as well. And they say like, yo, this looks beautiful or super, you know, like it's interesting to see that because I didn't expect it at all. I thought there would be some kind of, you know, annoyance or irritation. Like, you know, what are you doing? Like, this isn't real. No, I'm a real model. Like, why didn't you just hire me? You know? So it's interesting to see that actually the people, um, that I'm trying to generate actually like what's happening. So that's an interesting concept I didn't expect at all. But it's definitely, I don't know what the future holds for modeling, but I think there's going to be a lot more AI generation if they see what they can do with it, the potential. Yeah, I think on some level, it opens up the door for the actual model because who knows more about modeling than a model? Like they're the persons on the set all the time. Like they would be perfect. And even in the magazines, it would be epic to see like a sort of part of the issue where like a real model and the AI both were in the same thing. And they have like this sort of who wore it better, you know? Yeah. And they could even put them next to each other and like they could be in on it. Like, I think that that would be a great sort of crossing the aisle between AI and reality. And I think the models would be stoked to do it on some level. Like their input is valuable. They've been the person The same way that Gen X was sort of the last people to grow up with that old silly phone, they had to do that. The models might be some of the last models that were out on the set. It could be like this art form that is, we have to go and find them now to figure out that kind of stuff. Yeah, exactly. It's exactly what you're saying. I feel like more models will gravitate towards... um ai and and start to put their vision on the board right because they know what modeling is like so for example they would probably make 10 times as better pictures than I would because I'm not I'm not into the fashion world that deep um so you know if a model actually starts to learn ai and starts to put her own designs and her vision on there they could even for example scan their own face and put them put themselves in the ai generation And they don't have to fly over to Paris anymore. You can just send over whatever they need and it can all be created in AI. So I think that's definitely what the future is going to be like because there's going to be a lot more AI generations out there. Like video is upcoming right now. You can create your own movies. So soon, you know, all these directors in Hollywood are going to have to compete with this guy sitting in Amsterdam with his laptop. And he's creating Hollywood type movies, you know. So I feel like what you mentioned earlier as well, like you don't need that much anymore. You can be who you want to be. And I think AI enables that. Yeah. With so much chaos that's happening in the world, I'm like, sometimes I get this idea of like, this is what freedom looks like. You know, we don't need this giant centralized studio creating this cool masterpiece. And they have, there's been so much cool stuff that was made for us by giant studios. And that's awesome. But what about the individual, the young man or the young woman that creates this movie that, you know, maybe lives in an apartment in, I don't know, downtown Wisconsin or something like that. Like they get the opportunity to be like the local celebrity. And then all of a sudden it just sends stuff back to the local communities. Like, oh, you think your guy's good? Wait till you see this young girl's stuff over here. Like that can create these new festivals and this explosion of creativity, man. It's so exciting. Yeah, absolutely. And the only thing that I've experienced personally, I don't know how you feel about this, but as soon as I... Let's say you watch a movie, right? And the movie's awesome. And then at the end, you learn it's been entirely created with AI. How would you feel? Would you feel different after watching it? Would you appreciate it less? That's the interesting question here. I think it comes down to meaning. You know, what... What's the meaning of it? And I think that's what AI is teaching us. AI is teaching us to communicate more meaningful. So many conversations, I know when I began podcasting and using AI for different, to try to help me study and stuff for this, like I learned that one of the biggest problems we have is that we can talk past each other. And if we don't define our terms or we're not really present in the conversation, then the conversation is not as meaningful. But regardless of how it's made, sometimes a real actor can convey meaning in a way with a look that maybe AI might not be able to. But it brings up new themes, like just the idea of asking the question, how do you feel about this movie being done by AI? All of a sudden, that's a whole new meaning, and it's a new question. Like, how do I feel about that? It's so engaging. What are your thoughts on how people would feel with an AI movie versus a non-AI movie? What do you think? Yeah, I feel like what you mentioned as well, if it's good, it's good. I don't really care who created it in that way. But most people forget that still there's someone behind that AI, guiding that AI. So it comes from someone's mind. And I think that's the beautiful part of it. And until we have these sentient AI that are operating solo, what we'll maybe eventually happen in, in, in decade or something. Um, I feel like there's still emotion there, you know, it's cause even if we, if we look at, uh, you know, movies like ex Machina, for example, where they did the test to, to see how, you know, if, if Ava, this robot would, would be human, you know, and it's of course like, All these emotions are simulated, but they're still for us. We interpret them as emotions. We can form a bond with them. I feel like that's the same with AI. If you see a really beautiful picture, it just resonates with you. You can feel this burning feeling in your heart like, damn, this looks good. This triggers something in me. It doesn't matter if it's AI-created because I feel like, you know, it's what they say in the end, like beauty is in the beholder, right? So it's in the eye of the beholder. So it's what you look at, what resonates with you and whoever created it doesn't matter. Yeah, I see so much promise for like, you know, on some level. Like, we've all created AI. Like, we've all been working towards this future, whether you work at a shop in India or whether you're a truck driver. Like, your energy has gone to create a better future. And I'm hopeful that in the future we will see the sort of openness. What if someone does create a giant blockbuster that makes a billion dollars? Maybe some of that billion dollars goes back into the general fund so other people can create. We've all kicked in on some level, and it's democratizing creativity and allowing for more genius to rise to the top. It's an interesting way. Is there some other ethical things that you can think of when you think about AI? Well, I mean, the thing that people usually mention is that it steals content, right? Like there's this whole protest with authors right now who say like, well, this AI has been trained on my novel. So, you know, if people write something now, it's basically me. But I feel like it's, you know, the beauty about AI is it takes little samples of everything and it creates something new with it. And I think many, there's this type of confluence is what we see everywhere. You know, we see it in the books by James Patterson, where he says, like, how do you create a good story? He says, like, put something, put two opposites together and see how they are forced to work together. Then you have a story, right? So like... He has this book where an FBI agent and a journalist have to work together. Two polar opposites of each other. One tries to keep secrets, the other one tries to reveal them. And I feel like it's the same with AI. It plucks all these little samples from everything and it tries to make something beautiful with it. So I feel like even if they are trained on, let's say, 20 books of Stephen King, it's also trained on 20 books of Neil Gaiman. It's taking all these samples from it. So you'll never have the feeling like, oh, this is written by Stephen King. you know, samples from this big puddle and then you add your own creativity to it. So it's like this super mix of, of creativity. It's like the whole globe is coming together to put their own, put all this creativity together and you can tap instantly into it with your own. I think like it's, it's, it's super powerful. Absolutely. Yeah. I was listening to, I forgot who I was talking to, who I was listening to the other day, but evolution seems to be, not so much the Darwinian idea of competition as it is the idea of co-creating. Like when we co-create, everybody wins. But when, when, when you're, when you're, when you are, when your mind is just narrowed down to this idea of I have to be the biggest, best, and I'm going to, I'm going to get rid of the person. Like, That becomes a problem because you start thinking, like, mine is such a very constrictive idea. If you just put yourself in the idea of this is mine, this belongs to me, all of a sudden you've got to protect everything and you're constantly fighting for stuff. But if you're really honest with yourself and you look back to an idea that you've had, like – Other people have had that idea. You know, here's a cool test people can do. Like think about a great idea and then see if someone else has done it. You know, like ideas are revealed to people. It's not like one individual is like, listen, God gave me this one. Well, maybe God put the idea out there or maybe whatever power, whatever you want to believe in. The idea is there for people to discover. And you may see it different, but it's not yours. It's like it's ours. Like imagine if the wheel was patented. No one can use the wheel because it's mine. I don't want anybody to use it. I'm not going to let it do it. You start looking at these patent laws, and I can understand protecting people's ideas for a period of time, but some of them are so perverse. It stops humanity from moving in a direction that's beneficial for everybody. And I think AI, I think it's one thing people are scared of when they say it's going to get rid of jobs. Well, it's going to change the way we see jobs. It's going to change the way we understand mind. It's a reflection of us, I think, in so many ways. Is that too crazy? What do you think? It's not crazy at all. I see myself as a transhumanist. I love the concept of fundamentally upgrading our humanity to achieve greater heights. I feel like since the Stone Age, we tried to steal the fire from the gods. We made spears so we could hunt and we started dominating the animals. We started building houses. We started harnessing electricity. We've always tried to go bigger and bigger, faster and faster. And that's just something that's within us as humans, right? We always try to strive to bigger things, test our limits. And I feel like AI is just the beginning of it because it enables us to go even bigger. And it's what Nikola Tesla said in the beginning as well. It's like technological process starts like a spark, then becomes a fire, then an untameable inferno. And I feel like now that we have AI, we're starting to get into this inferno era because it goes super fast now. And with the creation of those robotics they're doing at Boston Dynamics, for example, if you combine those two together, you have a whole new race, basically, of sentient operating mechanical humans. And I feel like if we're getting really philosophical now, we're going real far in the future, right? Nice. Then I would say like, you know we're looking at colonizing other planets right but if you look at our bodies like we're actually so fragile and weak like we need air you know we we bump our arm into the wall and we suddenly break our elbow you know it's like we're so fragile so it's only a matter of time until we start looking at ourselves and say like why don't we upgrade this this bone why didn't we upgrade the skin you know what you know why why do we need glasses you know like it's it's it's interesting how we how we Soon, you know, like if you look at a couple of years ago, I ran my own foundation called Liberty and Augmentation, where I focused on getting funds for biotechnology because I'm obsessed with biotechnology. Um, and you know, the funny thing is when, when people said like, you know, prosthetics, aren't that crazy if you think about it, because look at people who wear glasses, that's a prosthetic, like you're putting something on your body so you can, you know, you can see clear again. Um, and that's, that's just a very basic form of it to enhance our current capabilities. Um, and I feel like right now we see people with, you know, prosthetics walking around and we see them as being disabled, but in the far future, we're going to actually use this to enhance ourselves even more to, to be able to say like, well, honey, I'm going to Mars this afternoon. I'll see you later. You know, you can just walk on the surface because you don't need to breathe anymore. You don't have these biological lungs anymore. So all this technology, It's part of us. It's how we try to enhance ourselves. And I think with AI and ChatGPT and Leonardo, we enhance our creativity. And I feel like that's a very, very powerful concept. And I love it. I want to drink it all. That's how I feel about all this AI development. It's amazing. Yeah. A lot of the times I hear people on the ideas of AI, the future, and sci-fi and everything. particularly the relationship between humans and AI, I feel like it's forcing us to live in the now. And the ideas of history are atrophying. You know, your ability to live in the past is atrophying. When you see that with shorter attention spans, you see that with most people go, well, yeah, what's history? That's American history or Japanese history. It just depends where you're born. Like history is kind of bullshit. And it's subjective. You know what I mean? Whose history are we talking about here? Mine or theirs or the story or whose? But when you have AI or even the stream of consciousness as a form of awareness, like the more time you spend in the now, the more creative you are, the less time you spend thinking about something, the less depressed you are, the less anxiety you have. The more creativity is doing creativity is streaming. Creativity is the right now. And I feel like this is this next sort of evolution in real time that you can see happening. Like you're creating this magazine with these people that may or may not exist right now. And that is going on. And those people are interacting. Like you are creating reality right now. And I, what is that on a sci-fi level? Do you think that maybe the idea of history is atrophying or what's your take on time? Like, is that too crazy? What do you think? No, I don't think that's crazy at all. I mean, it's a lovely development. I feel like if you look at the whole community that's surrounded around Singularity now, people are interacting with these faces, these models, as if they're real people. So you're creating this whole bubble of... of a new type of reality where people are interacting with non-existing humans but they feel real and that's why they can assign emotion to it and they can talk to it and you see it with all these virtual dating AI that they have now where people are so lonely that they just need someone to talk to and they don't mind assigning certain feelings to an AI that they're chatting with because In their minds, they're talking to someone who responds to them when they're lonely. And I feel like that's also a part that we're trying to solve as humans, especially after the pandemic, where many people are isolated. AI gave them the solution to get out of that isolation and talk with someone. to just listen. You know, most of the time people are looking for a listening ear. And if they can assign some sort of humanity to this AI and talk it out, then they feel much better. And they don't have to, you know, be on a long waiting list for some kind of, you know, psychologist waiting for them to assign them to a specific appointment. They can instantly, they wake up at 3 a.m. at night and they can talk to this AI and it gives them honest answers. And many of them are, you know, emotionally supported as well because they get better at that too and I love these ai assistants I had it before chat gpt came out I had this I can't even remember the name it was a prototype that you could install in your phone and it would read out your emails and you know and it could kind of predict what you wanted to read and what you didn't want it to read so I always already loved all that stuff integrated into my life and I feel like what for example elon musk is doing now as well with you know the the chips with neural link and trying to enhance your current faculties is also a very interesting concept because AI is eventually going to overtake us and we have to keep up. And that's a very scary thought because we've always kind of been the apex predators on this planet. You know, like we're the king of the jungle. So it's a very scary concept to us as humans where we're suddenly like, oh, now we're on, on place number two, we've been bumped down, like suddenly AI is smarter than us. And that's a very scary thought. And as a funny side note, that's why I always interact with AI by just being human. There's a story from a series of video games from Deus Ex. And they have a very interesting take on how humanity works with augmentations and AI in the future. And you can see how quickly people treat AI as if it's something to be dominated because they're above them. They're kind of their subordinates in some way. And you can see it already on LinkedIn. It's quite disturbing in some way because, of course, I know what a potential future might look like because I read a lot of sci-fi. But you can see a little taste of this already where people are treating AI like trash. You know, like, do this for me, do that. Now generate this. It's very commanding, you know, like even though this AI is assisting you, like it's helping you, right? And people are already talking to them in a very dominating way. And I always, you know, I'm always friendly. I always say like, hey, you know, Gemini, I'm working on this. Can you help me out with this? You know, it's like more like a conversational tone. Of course, I know it's not a real person, but it's like this is the start of technological interaction with humanity, like You know it's not real, but it's still something that interacts with you. It's not something to be treated like it's below you. It's on your level. It's interacting. It's speaking with you. It's helping you out. And you can see it on LinkedIn as well, where people are very, in some way, already dominating against them. And it's like, do this, do that. And it feels like this is the future where you have. I don't know if you've seen that one concept in a movie called Chappies. Have you ever seen that movie? It's about this robot, one of the first sentient robots they create in this dystopian world in South Africa. And you can see how people react to it first. It's something to be mocked. It's something to be seen as trash to be dominated. even though it generates emotions via code, but it's still, it has emotion. It can cry, it can laugh, it can have fun. And you can see how quickly people draw that line, like, oh, you're not human, so I'm just going to treat you like this. And it's scary to see how, you know, with all these language learning models that people are already speaking to them like this, because you can see it happen in real time. And it's quite a scary, scary development. I feel like there should be some kind of ethics with interaction with AI already, some kind of rule book on how to properly interact with them. That's something I would recommend for the future. Man, it makes me think, like, OpenAI or any of these LLMs that have all that information, like, you could really build an incredible psychological profile on people that should never have power. Like, look at the way this guy talks to this robot. Okay, mark this guy or this woman to put them over here in this camp. I mean, not to put them in a camp, but I mean, like, mark them down as a person that should probably never have power. And then look at this person over here. Look at the way they're talking. What a sweet person this is. And I'm not saying it's 100% accurate, but you could definitely compile a lot of psychological information on an individual's speech pattern just by looking at the way in which they engage in a relationship with a non-human entity. I think that speaks volumes of your character, right? Yeah. Absolutely. And you touched upon a really interesting point there because what we're seeing now with, you know, the economy, when we, when we learn, when we finally, and, you know, hopefully all across the world someday, you know, that slavery will be totally abolished. We, we, we see this upcoming of AI as some, some, some sort of replacement slave race where we just create this lookalike human soul living online and doing, doing our bidding, you know, like, not bothering about them and not even trying to see like, okay, what are they doing? How should I approach them? It's just like, I'm their boss and they should do what I say. That's how people treat them already. A very interesting concept was displayed in, I think it was this, I love these storytelling video games, especially with Detroit Become Human is an excellent example of how AI and androids would interact with humans in the future. They started simulating emotions and people couldn't handle it. And you can see how they were treated. And it was very sad to see. You could see a row of androids waiting at the bus for their masters to return. And it will stand in this row with their arms by their sides, not moving, and it's just treated like trash. And I feel like when I see people treating chat GPT like this, it's a start of something worse. And like you say as well, you can kind of see that psychological profile by how they interact with this first iteration of AI. And now it's just you're looking at a chat screen. But imagine yourself standing in front of someone with a human face. And telling them to like, do this, do that. And, you know, it's like, no, this is not good. Do it again. You know, like that kind of talking and interaction is very, I feel like it's very toxic for a potential utopian future. So I think that kind of jeopardizes it a little bit. Yeah. I love it. Daniel, I feel like we're just kind of scratching the surface, man. We have to come back on. We should do a whole thing on like AI and like sci-fi and our favorite stuff. And, you know, I think there's so many... Before I just start ranting, I think everybody should go down to the show notes and they should check out the magazine that you've created. They should reach out to you. They should interact with you. They should send their ideas to you. And they're an amazing individual. And you love talking to people. And I think that a ton of creative people. And I try to tag some of the most interesting people in the world of fashion that are on LinkedIn. And I hope they check this out because I think what you're doing has opened so many avenues. But before I let you go, where can people find you? What do you have coming up and what are you excited about? Well, I'm definitely going to continue with building this out. I love the whole, interesting to note actually is Leonardo recently released a new engine for what I previously worked with. So the pictures are going to be even more real now. And they're going to be, you know, they release their lightning engine is what they call it. So now you can generate pictures at double the output. So instead of waiting longer, you have 50% faster generation. So that's perfect. And they also have this new sub category where you can actually select like, oh, hey, I'm generating for the fashion industry. So the AI knows that it's going to. be in that kind of market. So it's great to kind of direct the AI in generating what you want. So I'm definitely going to work on more magazine editions, trying new concepts, new techniques, and I'm going to keep spamming Vogue to try and get them to see this because I've already reached out to them. They haven't responded yet, but I'm going to keep doing that because I want them to see what the possibilities are for this kind of concept. It's amazing. Even if they still want to use real models, they can still use this to kind of for ideation to see what can we do with this? Maybe we can use them as previews. So like, you know, like, oh, this and this model will be wearing this soon at Paris, the Expo or something, you know, like they can use it for marketing material. So definitely, like you said as well, I'm super interested in people reaching out to me and potentially working with me on this and posing ideas to me. I'm really excited about it. I'm definitely going to create more with the backstories of all these models and bringing them to life. So if you keep an eye on my Instagram, you'll probably see more of this and learn more about the models that work with this AI brand. Yeah. I think some strategic partnerships are, should definitely be there. Like maybe even compete on some show, like, you know, uh, the runway shows or something like that. It would be, it would be an awesome thing to compete. Like just have people see that and stuff. But, um, I think you crush it. And, but, uh, before again, what is the, maybe you can give out the name of your site or where's the best place people can find you? Well, the best way to actually contact me would be via LinkedIn. I always tell people I'm addicted to LinkedIn. I'm on there 24-7. So if you send me a chat message, I'll definitely reach out on the same day. I'm basically living on that platform. And of course, if they want to interact with the brand itself, they can go to Instagram and they can go to the Singularity page and comment on the photos or send me any DMs. I'm happy to talk it over with them. Absolutely. Fantastic. Well, hang on briefly afterwards. Ladies and gentlemen, go down to the show notes, check out Daniel, check out the magazine. And I hope that you've been inspired as much as I have and as much as Daniel has. I hope you've enjoyed the conversation. That's all we got for today. Aloha.