Ladies and gentlemen, I hope that the world is singing. I hope that the birds are singing. I hope that the sun is shining and the wind is at your back. I have an incredible guest for everybody today. I want to just take a moment. to talk to you about what's happening in the realm where business acumen meets empathetic leadership. There resides Rob Z. Wentz, a luminary figure weaving a tapestry of influence across diverse spheres, spheres, spheres. As an executive leadership coach, Rob doesn't just guide, he illuminates pathways to success, empowering driven business owners to navigate the complexities of entrepreneurship with his acclaimed vitals system. But his impact transcends mere coaching. He's the visionary architect behind the Academy of Excellence, which we'll be talking about today, a sanctuary where servant leaders converge to amplify their income, impact, and influence. Here, relationships flourish, support abounds, and growth becomes a collective journey of personal and professional evolution. Rob, thank you so much for being here today. How are you, my friend? I'm doing awesome, George. With an intro... Like that, how could I not be feeling good? That's good stuff. You even threw in some reverb, so I was loving it. That's good. Good stuff. Yeah, there's something to be said about that. I've always admired, like, it just sounds like you're at the stadium, like, Rob Z wins, wins, wins. I love it, man. It's so cool to have the ability to put that out there, I think. Yeah, I agree. I've often... been very thrown off I was in radio broadcasting for a long time so I spoke at like football games or like some concerts I'd be on stage like presenting something or just events where there was a lot of reverb and it would mess with my head so bad and I'd be like how do people do this like I can barely think straight and I don't even know if I'm saying the right words right now out of my mouth because I can hear my voice back it's it's a weird experience to uh have that happen Yeah, it is a weird experience. I remember back in the 80s when I first got like my first tape recorder, which was like this big box, you know, and you put your cassette tape in there and you taped your voice and you played it back and whoa, that's what I sound like. And I remember the very first time you get to hear your own voice. It's like, whoa, that's what I sound like. It sounds so different when you hear it from a third party perspective. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the things I have trained lots of people in podcasting, help them launch their podcasts and also getting used to making content because there's so much personal growth that comes along with it, let alone like, I want to have this platform and do this and that and put myself out there to the world. But the personal growth that comes from hearing yourself and seeing yourself and the mannerisms and the facial expressions you make, people are horrified by it. like it ruins some people's lives because they're like I didn't know I sounded like I didn't know I said that I didn't know I made that face and they're just like mortified you know and uh it's it's a great part of self-awareness I think there's nothing more self-aware self-awareing something, nothing makes you more self-aware than seeing and hearing yourself for the first time and being like, Oh no. And the thing I would always say is like, well, listen, you have friends and family who like you and you've been looking like this and sounding like this your whole life and they're okay with you. So it must not be that big of a deal and trying to like frame it in that way. You're the only one who has a problem with it. Cause you're not used to it. You know, it's really well said it. Well, it brings up this idea of awareness. And isn't it strange that maybe for the first time in our lives, we actually hear and see ourselves later in life. Sometimes you don't actually hear or see yourself until you're an adult. That's kind of an interesting concept to think about, right? Yeah. These days, not so much. Every kid knows what they sound like, what they look like from probably the time they're five on or whatever but yeah I think I always think about like this is such a the first person to invent the mirror had to been like whoa what the heck and like whenever before there were mirrors or anything like that and somebody like saw the reflection in the water that had to be terrifying or amazing or just like startling you know like it's wild to think that some people never knew what they looked like they never even saw a reflection of themselves That's a crazy concept. So for us to grow up and eventually hear ourselves, yeah, it's definitely illuminating and alarming. And what was something you noticed about yourself when you first heard yourself or saw how you talked? What was something that was highlighted to you that you didn't know? I think it's the idea that... that the actual sound of my voice and what I'm conveying is radically different than what I thought it was in my mind. You know, it was almost like getting to observe yourself in the third person is an incredible gift because it changes the way in which you build ideas about relationships. you know, like on some level, I heard a quote once that said something along the lines of, perhaps the greatest superpower an individual could have would be to see themselves the way others see them. And I think that that on some level, getting to see yourself or hear your voice is the beginning of that awareness. And it transforms relationships because you realize, oh my gosh, I sound like a total chump. I sound so arrogant or, you know, we're very hard on ourselves. But you do get the opportunity to judge yourself, from a third-person perspective, and that is invaluable. That can fundamentally have radical shifts in the way you communicate with yourself, your inner dialogue, and the people around you. What's your take on that? Yeah, that's really true. I, you know, when I'll do a podcast or something like that, or I spoke at like an online event a couple of weeks ago. And so I went and I was just driving in my car by myself one day. And I was like, I want to listen to my talk and see how it was. So I brought it up and I started listening to it. And I was very impressed with me. And I'm not usually very impressed with me. So and so what I noticed was like, while I was talking about this stuff on the episode, what hit me was, wow, when I was talking about this subject, I was in my head being like, I don't even think you're saying this correctly. I don't even, you might not even know what you're talking about. Like the inner dialogue was contradicting the words that were coming out of my mouth. And I remember listening back to my, or watching or listening back to myself and being like, oh, at this moment I was doubting myself, but now that I'm hearing myself, I'm loving what I'm saying right here. And I was doing the right thing. So it kind of gave me a, uh, an outside perspective confirmation of like, no, I am saying the right things. I am doing the right things. I need to stop listening to that stupid voice in my head. That's always like over overly critical of everything that I do. And so that gave me a really good perspective, um, And I think for some people, it's the opposite where they watch or listen back to themselves and they hate everything that they said or something like that. And I know just from my experience, I spent 20 years in radio broadcasting, so we had to do air checks, right? And air checks was where a consultant would sit down and listen to you talk on the radio and then critique everything that you did. And it was terrible. for a long time in radio, I put on a show, like I pretended that I was somebody else and I never liked anything that I did when I was pretending that I was somebody else. But once I learned how to be me, I started to like everything that I did because I knew I was authentically being myself and I wasn't pretending or trying to be somebody else or, or a character that I thought I was supposed to be. That's deep. You know, it, it reminds me of, um, I think... that is a powerful lesson, not just for radio or podcasting, but for life. Like so often we go through life with these different masks on and Thomas Hutchinson says, everyone hears a different you and everyone you meet has built up their version of you. It makes me think of masks. Like we wear all these masks. Like I have George, the, the truck driver or George, the father or George this, but really there's just one George under all those masks. And if you can take that mask off, it's, it's, It takes a weight off your shoulders, literally, because you no longer have to carry the burden of other people's expectations. Like you should be kind. You should be thankful. You should have gratitude. We should have that for yourself, too, and know that you're enough. But I'm kind of hearing that when you talk about liking yourself by being yourself. Maybe you can expand on that. Yeah, I'm looking forward to when I don't care anymore because I still care way too much. I'm so excited. You're a good person, that's why. But you often hear, my dad would say this, and other people say this, in your 50s, you really stopped caring. And I'm so excited. I'm so eager to get there. It's exhausting to care. And if you know you're a good person, I know I'm a good person. I'm always working on myself, but I have good intentions. And I'm so excited to be like... And I could say, hey, I'm starting today. Today, I'm not going to care. But you know what, man? I still care. It's still like that still creeps in there. But I'm so eager for that day. I think this is how I'm picturing it. One day, I'm just going to realize. wow, I don't care what that person thinks. And I'm gonna be like, oh man, that feels good. And it's not like a, I don't have to actively tell myself not to care. I'm just not going to, because you're so settled in who you are. And I think that's where the personal development in that work comes from. If you are constantly working on you to be a better version of yourself, You get yourself to a point where I know I'm a solid person. I know that I have integrity. Before we started this, we were talking about the time matrix. We were talking about being an upstanding individual, an upstanding person in society. And when you get to that place of doing the things that you say you're going to do, your self-esteem gets so high that... I think that's where that comes into play, right? When I do the things that I say I'm going to do and I keep my word, that's when I feel the best. That's when I feel the most prepared. That's when I feel the most confident. That's when nobody can touch me. But when you kind of dance in this world of like, I do some of the things that I want to do, but other things I fall short on. This this, what I'm saying right now could go in a million different directions and look different for a million different people. But for me, it's like, man, the closer I get to keeping my word to myself and to others, that is the most authentic version of myself. And there's no place for shame or guilt or self-hatred in that place. Wow. That's well said. I, you know, maybe you could bring up that matrix that we're talking about earlier. Cause I think that speaks volumes of what we're talking about. The idea of, of, you know, like it's not that you don't care about, I mean, you still care about what other people think and they say, but it doesn't affect you in the same way. Like, obviously you still want to be a good person. You still want to help, but you realize what's really important to you and you're not willing to compromise those things. So what, you know, the negative impact, intentions of other people or the sometimes the timelines of other people or the the tyranny of the immediate that's put on to us by society that begins to have less of a weight on us and I think that that's where you begin to really emerge but maybe we could throw up that um maybe you could share screen we could throw up that matrix and you can blend a little bit that would be yeah sure this is from uh do you ever read steven covey's seven habits of highly effective people yeah This is from, I don't know if the concept came from him or he just used it in the book, but it is called the time matrix. And I'm going to put it on the screen as soon as I figure out where the button is. There it is. And so you guys can see it here. This is a very crude illustration of it, obviously. But the concept is first things first. there's four quadrants of things we have in our life that need to get done. There's important things that are urgent to get done. There are important things that are not urgent to get done. There are not important things that are urgent to get done. And there are not important things that are not urgent to get done. Now, quadrant four, that's all of the crap that most of us waste. When you know you're wasting your time, doom scrolling or playing too many video games, or there's a large category for this. The place where we spend, a lot of people spend a lot of their life This is the world of just dying inside, in my personal opinion. And I've spent so many years. I dropped out of college at one point because I was so addicted to Halo 2 when Xbox Live came out. And I would put myself so deep. I was probably like 23, 22 at that point. Maybe I was 21. Whatever. It doesn't matter. This is when I failed out of college. I was spending my whole day doing things that were not important and not urgent. Now, if you're a procrastinator, you spend a lot of your time here in the important and urgent category. So this is like, things are important and urgent. So anything that needs done immediately that is important, I do this, but I procrastinate on this category, which is the most important category. These things are important, but these things are not urgent. So these are like the big dreams you have, right? The big projects you might have that you want to accomplish in your life. This might be where you need to get in shape exercising every day. This might be every area of personal development that you slack on in your life. This area could be doing your taxes in January instead of getting an extension until October. know what I mean like that's this kind of area but then there's the not important urgent category this is the kind of stuff uh if you have a boss and you get lots of emails this is that area right you're getting these emails for things that aren't necessarily important but they're urgent and must be done immediately if you work from home this is the area of oh man I need to do this project or I need to like have this deadline met But I also need to get the dishes done. Oh, the grass needs cut. Oh, the things that come up repeatedly. They're not super important, but they're like urgent needs to be done now. Or you make it seem like they need to be done now because you want to procrastinate on the things that are really important, but not urgent. So if we can move our life forward, to the important and not urgent, we should spend 65 to 80% of our time in this quadrant, but most people only spend 15% of their time here. We should only spend about 15% of our time doing the not important but urgent things, but we end up spending most of our time, 50 to 60% of the time doing this stuff. The more stuff we can get done that's important but not urgent, the better our life is going to be. So for me, one of these things right now is I've been building a program For coaching and I have one done for podcasting that I'm refining the one for podcasting. Those are important for me to get done because they're programs that I can help market and build my coaching profession, but they're not urgent. I don't have to have them done right now, but the sooner I get them done, the better off I am. So we all have things in these categories in our life. And one of the best things I love, I've had this done for me, from my coach, and I do this for people that I coach, we go through an inventory of your life, we put things in these four categories. And then we find out like, where are you spending your time? And how can we get there? this area where we spend most of our time. This is where we really get stuff done and we accomplish big things that will change our lives, change the lives of others. And, you know, potentially if you think big enough, change the world. But that's the general concept around the time matrix. It's genius. It's so simple. And it really helps you to like put in perspective what you're doing with your life. Yeah, it is fascinating to look at. And I think it allows us a different level of awareness. You know, when we think about time, often we are Often we are sort of held captive by a race from the hospital to the graveyard and we never stop to slow down. And there's a great gentleman by the name of Christian Fleck, who has the slow down club. And he talks about the way in which we experience time and much like that particular graph right there. It talks about doing what's important. And if you're not willing to slow down and take a look at your life and confront some of the difficult spots, there's a lot of people that are paid lots of money to keep you just chasing that carrot just all day long. And pretty soon you find that you've been running on a treadmill. That might be, you know, they, I heard a quote that said that some of the biggest symbols of our, of our planet have been the bulldozer and the rocket ship. But I would argue that this last decade has probably been the treadmill because people are just running in place and not going anywhere. You know what I mean? On some level, like if you have a flag somewhere, like the corporate world should have a treadmill and like their logo underneath, like you didn't run full speed, but don't go anywhere. Yeah. At least you're getting in shape while you're on the treadmill, I guess. But I find treadmills bizarre. There's a lady at my gym and anything might go there. She's always on the treadmill. It's like she doesn't leave. And I'm thinking like you could have walked so much outside and like seen so much. The treadmill just seems like a place of slow death to me. It's just like sad. I find, I try, I find treadmill sad ellipticals, not so much, but a treadmill I find sad for some reason. Well, it's like a, it's like a human hamster wheel, right? Yeah. Like if you go outside and you could run, but you're on this treadmill. There's no destination. There's an illusion of a destination on a treadmill, but. And it's also assisting you in moving. So it's like, you're not even really trying that hard. Yeah. Yeah. On some levels. I know I'm totally off on that. People love treadmills and they're healthy, but it just seems like dumb to me. I don't know. It's comical. Well, I think it speaks like, I guess if you're trapped indoors and the weather sucks, the treadmill works. But I don't, I think it's a good metaphor for people's lives. Like we spend a lot of time running in place and it's kind of sad. Like the same way you look at the treadmill and be like, that's sad. So too is it for an individual to spend all their life making just enough money for them to, you know, not fulfill any of their goals. And I think you can see that in life. I think you see, especially nowadays when you see sort of this epidemic of, of, a lack of meaning in people's lives. I think that's because everyone's running on a treadmill. We've kind of been conditioned that way. Is that too much to think or what's your take on that? No, man, it seems to be the case in a lot of situations. Although I feel like for the past couple of years, things have been changing pretty dramatically and drastically. And a lot of people have been waking up to the concept of there has to be more meaning and they're finding more meaning and finding more purpose. But the hard part is also if you spent 30, 40, 50, 60 years of your life on the hamster wheel and you jump off, then it's like, where do I start, right? Where do I begin? And that's one of the reasons, I mean, I encourage everybody to have a mentor, to be a mentor for somebody, have a coach, to be a coach for somebody and make sure you get around people who just, they're not satisfied. Not that... they're peaceful and they're fun to be around, but they're always just creating more, wanting more, doing more out of a place of like, I know there's more. Not out of a place of lack, but out of a place of like, wow, there's so much. I can always just keep growing, you know? Yeah. And it gets finding those people and you can find those people anywhere. Trust me. If I live in a small town of about 40,000 people and I've found tons of those people here, you can find those people anywhere, but you have to change for you to find those people because if you found them and you haven't changed yet, uh, they're, you can, they can be right into your nose, but you're not going to resonate with them. They're not going to resonate with you. Yeah, it makes sense. And it reminds me of a great quote I heard not too long ago that says, growth and comfort, they don't coexist together. And when you jump off the treadmill, for me, I was a UPS driver for 26 years. And I just got to a point where I couldn't be on the treadmill anymore. And I got off. And even now, I While I'm grateful, it was the best move of my life to leave there. I look back and it's still scary to see the changes that come because when you leave something, when you leave something you've done for so long, in some ways you're leaving the identity of that person behind. It can be sometimes growth looks a lot like death. You know what I mean? If you look at the way in which a caterpillar becomes a butterfly and it pops its wings out of the cocoon for the first time or begins to eat the detritus and find its new way out of there, you know, it looks like death on some level. And I've done a lot of time thinking about and talking to people and coaches and mentors and speaking to cool people like yourself. And what I have found is that if you do something for a long period of time, The inner dialogue that you think about yourself is conditioned, and not just by you, but it's reinforced by everybody you meet. For example, if I go out on the road, everybody I met saw me as this person. Well, what happens when you're not that person anymore? Now you don't have the reinforcement, you don't have the dialogue, and you're sort of in this fluid stage where you have to create a whole new story about who you are, about how people relate to you, about what you're capable of, about what your dreams are. And there's no more treadmill that's assisting you. Now it's just you and it's both beautiful, but it can be scary too. Maybe you could speak to that idea of growth and comfort and creating new pathways for yourself. that's that the whole wilderness journey right going into the wilderness yeah is it's terrifying because it's the wilderness I got lost was I talking to you about this I was talking to somebody else I got lost in the woods when I was a kid and it was freaking terrifying like it was it's scary to get lost in the woods yeah you're just wandering around having no and you can't see which way is the right way to go and everything looks the same I guess getting lost in the ocean would be the same thing. Although the woods is a bit less scary. The ocean, I think, would be way more scary. But the point is that wilderness phase of your life is... I mean, how else are you going to get to where you need to go? If you know that you're not in the right place and you know you have to do something to change, you can prepare yourself for the change. You can mentally... financially physically uh prepare yourself for the change right but there's still going to be that floating place of like what and this was for me I spent probably three years in the wilderness and I feel like I'm like I'm in like the clearing now I came out of the woods and I'm like getting my feet set again. I'm like, Oh, okay. So I went through, you know, a long standing separation and divorce. I left my radio career, my digital marketing company behind. Uh, just, I started to, I just like, it definitely was a long wilderness phase and there's no, uh, time limit of how long or how short the wilderness phases. It's like, you're going to be there until you start to figure it out until you find the lessons you need to find. And I think that that's a necessary part of life for a lot of people and different areas of your life. Some people get, I don't know if it's luck or whatever it is, but some people just know what to do with their life and they, they don't ever go through maybe a financial or a career wilderness, but they'll go, they might go through a, a personal wilderness, a relationship wilderness. You might lose somebody in your life and that sends you into a place of wilderness for a while. Um, but we all go through that and that's, that's where all the growth comes from. I mean, that's the hero's journey because you have to find in that hero's journey, you have to find the sage or the guide or whoever that is. And, um, that's where you grow. That place is where you grow. And if you're looking back on like old societies, right? The initiation into manhood, they like put you through some stuff. And I think either we will willingly put ourself through things or life will just, things will just happen that puts us through things, that tests us, that builds our faith, that builds this resolve inside of us where we find out. I think what you were saying earlier, man, Most people only identify with who they are through what they're doing. They don't identify who they are through who they're being. And it's really hard to identify who you're being when you're always just doing. But who are you being when you're not doing is one of the biggest questions. It's a really hard question to answer. An impossible question to answer unless you spend a lot of time with yourself discovering what that is. Man, it's so well said. I think there's a default category in life. It reminds me of Brewster's Million. Have you ever seen that movie, Brewster's Million? No. Okay, it's super funny. It's this movie with Richard Pryor, and he's this black guy. He finds out that he has this super wealthy white uncle, and this uncle died, and he left him. So they pull him in, and they sit him down, and they go, Mr. Brewer, This is your uncle, and he has a message for you now that he's died. And he's like, hey, how's it going, man? I'm dead. I know I'm a white guy, but I'm your grandfather, and I got a challenge for you. I have $20 million. I'm going to give it to you. If you can spend all $20 million... In six months, I'll give you $50 million. And he's like, what? And he's been poor his whole life. And he's like, I could totally do that. And he's like, but if you want to wimp out, I'll give you $1 million. And so Brewster decides, you know what? I'm going to spend this $20 million. No problem. I'm going to buy shoes. I'm going to buy a car. And so he's thinking about all this stuff. And his uncle says, OK, listen, here's the catch, though. At the end of six months, you can't have any assets. You have to blow it all frivolously. Mr. You love money, and if you had money, you'd just blow it. You'd be so awesome. Here's your challenge. So he takes on the challenge, and he goes out, and he buys all this stuff. And all of a sudden, he realizes that coming to grips with having wealth beyond imagined ruins his life. And he finds himself in six months realizing, like, I was better off without having all this money. I have all these problems, and I have all these fake friends around me. And now I have all this stuff. stuff that like I don't even want it's gross and like he he the he learns that like and it was a really cool movie on on a way in which to learn that having things be it financial or things that you think would make you happy have a real way of making you unhappy And I think that that's on life's lesson. It gives us this default. It gives us this clause. Like, listen, you can go through life and be what other people want you to be. Like, that is an option. You can do that. You can just have these labels put on you and you can do that. And it'll be somewhat... less fulfilling, but it can be done. But life, and I believe nature, God, life wants you to struggle to become the very best that you can be, but that does mean being alone with yourself. That means spending time seeing your flaws, seeing your beauties, and training yourself to become the best version of yourself. And when you do that, It doesn't matter how much you have. Your relationships will shine. Your eyes will shine. Your curiosity for life will shine. And so in some ways, I think that life is trying to communicate this idea to us. Please try to become the best version of yourself. I will provide you with the test. I'll provide you with the tools. And I will provide you with the resources that you need to do it. But you've got to trust. You've got to have faith. And I think it's there for everybody, Rob. I really do. People believe it's there for them, right? Yeah. Well, of course, it's there for everybody. That's the whole game. When you go out and you buy something you really want, and it does make you feel good for a minute. You feel really nice. Like, man, I got this. What did I buy recently? I bought something recently that was really cool. And I was really excited about it. Oh, a perfect example is my son. He loves Fortnite. So he's constantly buying new skins. This kid's blowing so much money on a free video game on these skins. Yeah. And it's never enough. The new skin is never enough because he's got to have another new one like a day later. And he's like, Dad, you need you need a skin. I'll play, too. And he's like, you're this generic, stupid skin. Like, how can you even play as that skin? It's embarrassing to play with you. And I'm like, fine, then you buy me a skin. So he bought me a skin. And now I have a skin. But. I think like those fleeting things, and those are the funniest to me. This is the NFT virtual world of like skins and stuff like that is the funniest one to me because you can't even ever actually touch it. It's not real. And I keep saying, you buy all this stuff and it looks cool in the game, but outside of the game, you can never even, you can't even have it. You can't even touch it. But the things that really matter, if I had to think of things that really give me a lot of satisfaction, spending time with people that I love to be around, that's one. I always leave those situations. Feeling so good, I hung out with a friend this morning for an hour. We talked a little bit of business, but we talked a lot about pro wrestling because we both, for whatever reason, like pro wrestling. So that was really great. Connecting with people. So Podcast like this great example. I've been taking jujitsu for a while another great example of just something that Gives me so much satisfaction every time I do it when I leave I'm like that was Everything that I came in there with I didn't carry out with me. It's just good And exercise in general another great way of doing that like but I think it really comes down to like stuff you do with people yeah you do stuff with people you really love or you want to be around or you're just volunteering your time to help out when you leave those situations like uh I have a men's group in my church men's group every time I leave men's group I'm like filled up I'm filled up to the brim and I need to carry that with me right because I want to carry that and give it to somebody else so those are the things that are long lasting that actually stick and all the material stuff It doesn't stick. It might. It feels good for a minute. And it is it's not it's not bad, but it's not everything clearly. And we can clearly see that anybody who's gotten something they really wanted. And then two months later, it was not that great anymore. Knows that's not it. Yeah, man, it's mind blowing. There's so much in there. When I think about, if I take it back to the beginning of the conversation, we talk about skins, we just talk about observing our children buying digital products in a digital world. I think it uncovers a lot about our own psychology. Like it's not real. Even though they're buying a non tangible product, The psychology of it is the same of us buying a new shirt. You know what I mean? Like it's, yeah, I like it. Okay. And it does pacify you on some level, but it is pacifying. It can be unhealthy on some level. Like it's not really real. It's this idea that you're buying happiness. And that on some level is brilliant marketing. Hey, why don't you have a little sun? Here's a little sunshine for you. Let me just go in $9.99. The first one's free for you. You know what I mean? It kind of explains where we kind of can take that wrong turn sometimes by buying into the idea that purchasing tangible objects can fill the void of relationships. Cause it is a relationship in a way, like you're buying this new relationship with it, but you don't have to do anything once you buy it, you know, or a relationship, whether it's jujitsu or a men's group or a podcast, you have to do some work. Like you have to listen and be there and be present and enjoy it and, and bounce. It's like a dance in some level. And I think that the emptiness that comes from buying things doesn't have that dance involved. Isn't it interesting? Like we've always said, like, well, we can't take it with us when we die. Right. So you think like when we die, we can't take any of this stuff with us. So anything you buy digitally like skins and NFTs, it's like the next level of that because I can't take this with me when I walk away from my video game console. It's just it's just there. And as long as I'm in that world, it's there. But as soon as I walk away and I'm in like real life, it's meaningless and gone. And so it's like another level of that. Like we can't take it with us when we die. Like those things, you can't even take it with us. We'll take it with you while you're still alive. Unless you have your phone, I guess you could play Fortnite in your phone and get the skin on your phone and then whatever you get the idea. Yeah, I do. I love it. I think on some level, I think it, I think it brings up this way in which our relationship with AI is is fundamentally changing the way we're aware of ourselves and relationships. Because this exact thing that you and I are talking about, it's been along for a long time. When you look back at the 60s and you start looking at some of the hippies, they're like, man, we're getting rid of materialism, man. It doesn't even matter, man. It's just about love. That was in the 60s, and still we carried it with us now. And if you look at kids playing video games, they have the opportunity to learn this lesson quickly. Yeah, this is a Fortnite. It's a game. I like this skin, but I can't take it with me, and I don't need to. They're beginning to learn it at a more rapid evolution. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe they're beginning to learn these lessons as children, which took some of us as adults a long time in our life. Whoa. Crazy over here. What was that, dude? That was just for effect. I wanted to really put an exclamation on there. Wow, man, that was cool. I liked it. Shocking. The shocking podcast. Yeah, or I hear you, but also, or that might just mean that kids are just never going to leave their computers and video game systems. That's where the VR headsets come from. Yeah, but there is something there with what you're saying. I don't know. That's interesting to think about. My... My fear is like, I don't even touch virtual reality because I know that I'm going to get lost in it. And so it's amazing to me right now, as VR is very accessible and cheap, that more people aren't just lost in it all the time. Or maybe they are, and I just don't see them because they never come out of their house because they are always playing VR. I don't know any of those people. So I'm thinking like, wow, what a... That's just like... scary and weird, but also I know it's super cool, which is why I won't do it because it's probably really, really fun. Yeah, I think there's a bit of a buy-in curve. You know what I mean? I remember I used to I still am fascinated by crypto. I'm still fascinated by the idea of buying virtual property. Imagine owning a virtual library in a popular game and anybody that went into your library could check out a book or check out your book that you wrote in reality. I think there's some really cool crossovers there, but it's pretty abstract. And it's difficult to measure the value of abstraction. And, you know, I don't thoroughly understand it. And how many people are really going to go to your library in this game? And, you know, when you look at the way in which tech has talked about this incredible future of first virtual reality, and then, okay, maybe not virtual reality. How about augmented reality? Yeah, that's going to be the next thing. I'm just going to wear these goggles. It's going to be awesome. I don't remember, I don't see anybody wearing them. I remember seeing Sergey Brin have a pair of Google goggles in the subway. And the idea that you could look at somebody and instantly check out their profile was pretty fascinating. But then it was like, well, we don't want everybody doing that. You know, it's a violation of privacy. It just doesn't, it seems like it lost its way somewhere along the way. Yeah, I don't know, man. It seems like, because you see like the new videos of like the Google goggles and people are walking down the street. And that seemed to be hot for a second. You're right. Now it's like kind of dissipated. I think it's just going to separate. Some people are going to be so bought in. Some people are going to be so unbelievably bought in that I think we're going to lose track of them. I think this is what occurs to me. The people who are all in on that stuff, we're never going to see them again. I think they're going to be in their own world. I guess the augmented reality world, they'll still be with us. But the VR world, they'll just be there. And they won't come out. And everybody else is just kind of like getting away from all that stuff and having less of it in their life. I find there's a balance in the middle if you can kind of find that balance. But I don't know, if I had like contacts that I had that like I could have video screens in front of me, like I don't, I'm good. I don't need it. I'm good and it's okay. I don't have to have that in my life. But some people, I guess they really feel like they have to. I really, I don't know. I remember years ago, this is probably like 15 years ago. I remember I was sitting at my house and I was watching a football game, but I was also working on a project on my laptop, but I was also on my phone checking like Twitter about the football game. And I thought like, this is, and I remember sitting and thinking like, this is the coolest thing ever. I'm like so connected right now. But as I was so connected, I was also super anxious about, Because there was like I was taking in just too much stuff. And so some people might be able to have the capacity to take in all that stuff at once and they enjoy it. Other people, it's like it's just overwhelming and unnecessary and brings anxiety. And I think that's where a lot of our anxiety comes from today. Even doing this podcast right now, George, I'm in front of three screens. I don't need to be on three screens, but there's three screens in front of me. If I need to concentrate, good freaking luck. Like if I so if I really need to get something done. I usually don't sit on my computer. I'll get on my laptop and I'll go sit on the couch because the three screens is too much when I'm diving deep into something. But it's good when I'm like doing this or on a Zoom call where I got to show slides or different like building something in Canva or whatever. But if I really want to focus, it's got to either be me and a notepad or me and just a laptop or just me and me. Imagine that. Just me. Yeah. I love it. I think it speaks to the idea of instinct versus analysis. You have an instinct of what you know is good and what you need to get done. Or in a relationship, I think this person likes me or this person doesn't like me. You don't need three screens and a profile view of all their things to realize what they know. Sometimes an overload of information equals paralysis. You know what I mean? You can't do anything because you want to read all this stuff. How about you just act? How about you just go with your gut? And it seems like we're kind of – it seems like there's always been this sort of pushback between biological instinct versus analytical technology. And I don't know which one wins. You can read books that say, well, our instincts are actually pretty bad. We're pretty bad thinkers. Or you can say, well, look, man, in the lexicon, there's always been the language of trust your gut. That's been around for a long time. You're going to put that up against we're not very good. Look where we are. Look what we've created. So I think that we're just seeing a continual push back, and they just get bigger and bigger ways building up. Maybe they go together hand in hand. If I may— The way in which I've seen augmented reality be implemented into real world commerce that I think speaks to this is I remember sitting outside my house one day by this park and all of a sudden all these people showed up almost like a tour bus, but they were in their individual cars and they all had their phones. Like they were looking at aliens or something. And I was like, What is going on here? And they just kept showing up for like hours. And I asked somebody, and it was the release of Pokemon Go. And these people were finding Pokemans in natural places using their phone. And I started thinking like, man, you could drive commerce that way. What if like on a hot day, I selected a Pokemon to be found by my Slurpee station? Perfect. You know what I mean? And like, so that seems like there's real world implications for it. And I know that's kind of a lot, but let me get your take on that. That was a lot. I know. I just run wild sometimes. What's the take, though? I'm sure people were doing that, right? I mean, that was probably a thing, positioning. Are you asking, is it a good thing? Yeah, I am asking. What is your take on the biological versus the analytical and implementing that into the real world together? I mean, Pokemon Go got people to go outside who wouldn't go outside very often. So I thought that was good. That seemed to be a positive. Yeah. But also they were getting hit by cars and stuff. They were? I didn't hear about this. Were they really? Well, yeah, because they were like chasing the Pokemon and You got to cut them off. Yeah, it was out of control. Actually, I know that did happen. I never played Pokemon Go, so I don't know exactly how it was laid out. But it just seems novel, but not necessary. I don't know, man. It just seems so... When I had to really think about it, it's cool. It's like, oh, that's cool. I didn't play video games for decades, maybe like 15 years. because I knew I had an addiction to them and then I got my my son and he was playing fortnight and I'm like oh I can download it on my computer and play it and I start getting sucked into it and I'm like oh no like I'm still just as addicted as I was when I was 19 years old I gotta stop and so uh I don't know it just doesn't seem necessary but there's no stopping it also yeah there's no it's not gonna stop but I don't have to like be fully involved in it So I think that there's like a, you kind of have to know what's going on. I look at kind of, I want to stay in tune enough to understand what is happening, but I don't want to be so into it that I get lost in it. but it's, but social media or augmented reality, I imagine is super addicting and it's easy to get lost in it because it's easy to get lost in your phone. Every second you think like, Oh, I don't know this. Or I wonder what the weather's like today. Oh, we're going to go mini golfing later. I wonder if it's going to rain. And then I'm on my phone looking at the weather and then I'm on YouTube for no reason. And you know, it's just like this rabbit trail of addiction that you go down and you don't even realize that it's happening. So I don't know. what your question was or what my answer is, but I think the answer is, it's just a, it seems to be a perpetual balancing act, but none of it seems necessary. It's convenient, but it doesn't seem necessary. But it's here and there's no avoiding it, but I also feel like I don't need it. So something that I will do, I started this last summer and I'm gonna do that this summer again. I have a friend who is a landscaping and hardscaping company, so two days a week, I go and work, you know, anywhere from like 10 to 16 hours doing landscaping and hardscaping for some cash. Yeah. And I get outside. I can actually, instead of the sun being blocked here, I'm in the sun. I'm digging in the dirt. I'm building something. I actually learned how to do stuff from my own backyard by being on this job. And it, gave me like, I was like, definitely uplifted by it. And I'm like, wow, maybe I should do this all the time. But then I'm like, I also love what I do. And I love coaching. I don't love all the online stuff, but I love a lot of it. This right here, podcasting. Yeah, I love it. Me too. And the fact that I can connect with anybody in anywhere in the world is amazing and just a beautiful thing. But going outside and digging in dirt and getting dirty and building stuff, that's really kind of hard to beat. It's very hard to replicate that, just like jujitsu. Very hard to replicate the joy you get from um having a 250 pound guy lay on you and you can hardly breathe but then you figure out some way to like squirm your way out or you choke somebody out or um you know you just learn something new like it's really hard to those those things the real life tangible things are um really hard to duplicate anywhere else I would say impossible really you can't you can't duplicate human interaction in the virtual world it's not it's just not going to work yeah there's something about physical violence between two people that sanction versus mortal combat in a video game like it's just not as it's not as Wholesome's not the right word. It's not as cathartic. There's no release. When you're fighting or wrestling or doing something with somebody, there's this sort of brutal contact that's necessary. And the idea of using your aggression in a physical way to assault somebody else in a constructive way is something that's kind of beautiful. And when you do it And you do it in that way, whether you're in a sanctioned wrestling room or a sanctioned jujitsu room, like you really get to feel what. superiority, authority, fight, struggle, life, breathing. You really get these real ideas of it versus this obscure view in a video game where you could just send some sort of harpoon through to somebody, you know? It's satisfying for a little while. Yeah, satisfying. It's really empty at the end. I think maybe that's the message in all this, man, is that everything online is, in the end... without the physical real life counterpart really sad and empty. And the thing that drives all innovation on the internet is porn, which is a very sad, depressing and empty fake side of actually having real intimacy with somebody that you love, right? Porn is incredibly satisfying and addicting, but in the end, brutally sad and horribly depressing. And That to me is kind of like, that's like the underline on like nothing virtually is ever going to satisfy you. Zoom. Like I love talking to people over Zoom and it's really cool to connect with them. But if I didn't actually ever meet people in real life and I sat in this chair and just talked to people on Zoom all day long and I never interacted with real people, I would be so miserable. So miserable. Even though I have great relationships online, I still need to, you still need to be around somebody. You know, we can't, you can't. duplicate it, you can't recreate it, it's impossible. So anybody who's trying to recreate it and thinking we're gonna live in these virtual worlds, we're not gonna be happy, there's just no way. Yeah, in some ways it makes me think about, one of the cruelest punishments we do as humans is isolation. When you put people in solitary confinement, they lose their mind because they don't have connection. In a weird way, it seems that social media is sort of solitary confinement with windows. With shadows on the cave, maybe. If you take it all the way back to the idea of ancient philosophy, but Yeah. By the way, my wife made me a smoothie and I felt like I had to drink it. So that's what I've been drinking. I didn't want to be rude that I was drinking on the podcast, but she dropped it off while I was on the podcast and it looked so good that I couldn't stop myself. What an amazing woman, man. You're a lucky guy. Thanks. It was a pleasant surprise. Yeah, those are worth embracing in life. And let me ask you this. So when you talk about social media relationships, being on a podcast or a Zoom call, and then you're talking about going outside and working with nature, do you think that those two things are similar in that in one way you're having communications with an individual and in the other way you're having communications with nature? Uh, yeah, I guess. Yeah. You're learning a lot about yourself in communications with people. Nature doesn't really, it's like hanging out with a dog, you know, it doesn't, so it's not, it's not as like, uh, yeah, that's a good question, man. I think if you have a lot of like anxiety around people, nature's probably more healing for you, uh, until you can learn to balance that anxiety and and uh find joy in interacting with people but I think somebody who's not comfortable with interacting with people they do much better just learning how to it's funny thing when you're doing uh landscaping or hardscaping most people that I work with they don't like there's not a whole lot of talking going on like they're very seem to be kind of like introverted they just do the work and there's something very relaxing in that that we just like get the thing done and you're super focused on the thing that you're doing and I learn a lot doing that. And I also, yeah, I find. How do you learn? Like if there's not a whole lot of talk going on and you're working. I'll ask if I'm doing it wrong. Like, am I screwing this up? Or like, well, show me what to do. Right. They'll show me. But we learn. I think I'm just learning about like myself. I'm just learning like, oh, it's nice to be outside for eight hours. Oh, this is different. I don't like, cause I had jobs when I was younger. Yeah. I worked at a Kentucky fried chicken. I worked at a Hooters, worked at all these dumb jobs, but I never like worked outside of the job. And I'd always think like, Oh, it's hot out. I don't want to be outside all day. I'm hot. And then when I'm working eight hours outside and it's hot, I'm like, I don't even care anymore. I'm just, now I'm just like used to it. And so maybe that's one thing that I did learn was like, I should have been doing this a long time ago. I should have been working outside when I was like 15 or 16. And I think whenever my son gets old enough, because he's nine right now turning 10, and it's time for him to get a job, or if he starts really complaining about money, and be like, Hey, bro, I'll get you a lawnmower. You can go start cutting grass for people. They'll pay you money. And then I'll find a landscaper and be like, hey, you guys need some summer help? And get my son a job and then force him to go. I want to be that dad who opens the bedroom door on a summer morning and is like, hey, I got you a job. You got to meet Clark down at the Sunoco. And you're going to start working tomorrow morning at 8 a.m. And he's like, oh, why, dad? Why are you doing this to me? I'm like, it's good for you. you get cash in your hand, that sort of thing. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to that. Yeah. I think, I think you can be successful at that. And yeah, But I do, you know, I would back it up a little bit. I would say that that's nature's language. The way in which you learn to landscape or hardscape by experience and then translating that experience into your own backyard. I look at that almost as a language or being outside and realizing you're comfortable with the heat. I look at that as a dialogue with nature teaching you what you're capable of. And I think if more people did that, you know, you would really begin to understand how that dialogue, that lived experience outside doing things translates into interpersonal relationships. Because the same way you can look at the soil and be like, oh, the soil is a little bit wet today or I need a little bit of this. So, too, can you look at someone's facial expressions and this person is a little wet. exercise in empathy today, or this person needs a little cheering up today. But I think that they're, I think you can see both, you know, and see yourself as a mediator, not only working with nature, but working with people. And there's a crossover there. Hmm. Yeah, I could see that. I can definitely see that. I feel like also when you work in nature, it is kind of, uh, Gets you in tune with how things should be. We're so nerf-proofed out here. I'm in my basement office all day long. It's just like... like we need air conditioning and then you go out of, out of your house from the air conditioning into the hot sun. You're like, Oh, it's so hot out. And it's like, it's just, it's just outside. This is just, this is like what the world is. You're just in here living this pretend world. Like, yes. So when you're out there in that, yeah, you kind of get a sense of how things really are. And then when I see like some guys, like it's raining or cold out and they're like laying concrete and I'm like, Oh man, this guy's that's gotta suck. But then when you're out there, you just kind of like get used to it. And I think that's tying this to what you're saying. Yeah. I think that's like when you're really – when you don't spend a lot of time with different kinds of people and you don't know how to be comfortable around certain kinds of people and you're anxious, that's really difficult for you. But if you're exposed healthily to a lot of different kinds of people and situations – then it's not as anxiety ridden going into those situations. But like you have to expose yourself to different kinds of people, different kinds of environments. Or if you don't do the exposure, then you're going to be so uncomfortable when you finally are exposed to it that you're just going to run back inside and get away from it. And we need that exposure. for environments and for personalities. So maybe I'm connecting this to what you're saying, man. Like there's different, I mean, luckily, you know, if I want environments, Pennsylvania is the best place because sometimes we have all four seasons in a day. Sometimes it'll be, And this is no joke. It could be snowing in the morning and really cold. And then by afternoon it could be raining because it got a little bit warmer. So it's not snowing anymore. And then by the afternoon, this is like a March day by the afternoon, it's warmed up and it could be like 60 degrees and then cool off in the evening and go back down to like freezing again. So it's like all these elements, like all the work like happening in a single day and like getting used to that. Um, i think there's definitely a lot of there's a lot of benefit to that no doubt just like getting around different kinds of people and isn't it interesting like I used to do a lot of drugs and I was around drug dealers and they always made me super uncomfortable I hated being around drug dealers I just I was never I was never that guy they I just wanted to get the drugs and then get away from them as fast as I could And now and they always want to hang out. Right. They're always like, oh, man, stay a while, man. I'm like, I don't want to need to get out of here. Yeah. And but now as I've changed my circle, I get nervous now around like successful, confident people who are like really successful people. that makes me nervous like but it's a good nervous so the drug dealers are bad nervous the successful people is a good nervous like I don't even know because you don't feel worthy I don't feel worthy of being around this person I don't feel like I have anything to say to them or talk to them about um and that makes me it gives me anxiety where I want to run away. I want to like get away from them because it's making me feel weird, but I know I'm going to learn something if I stay and I need to stay around them. I need to be around them more because there's something I can glean here. And if I can be around them long enough, I'm going to learn some stuff and I'm going to pick up on some things, how they speak, how they act, how they talk. That is going to be really helpful for me. And I think if we look at our society and look at music and culture, we make what looks cool a lot of bad activity right I mean drug dealing has been like glamorized and like celebrated in our society but being a successful person is looked at as like that's the evil person right the the the rich person which some people who have a lot of money I'm sure are not great people but a lot of the times like these people worked hard to get to where they're at there's a lot to learn there we should Look at that as an interesting thing. But then on the other end of that, I really want to get around people. The people I love to be around the most are people that are closest with God. So people in my life that have a very close relationship with God and with Jesus, those people, when I'm around them, I'm like, holy cow, this is like the best place in the world to be because they are just... When you find the real ones, they are just who they are and they're that way all the time. And they're always willing to listen. They always want to help out. And they're always just ready to help in some sort of way or pass wisdom along in some sort of way. And it just feels, you just have a really good feeling when you're with them. And that's something that you can't really manufacture that feeling. That's impossible. Hey, thanks, Thomas. Thomas is brilliant. Thanks, dude. Speaking of brilliant, Thomas Hutchison is brilliant. Anybody who's reading, you should go on Facebook and look at some of the stuff that he writes about. Totally brilliant guy and has an incredible way of seeing the world and trying to get him to come on the podcast. Thomas, open invitation, buddy. Let's make this thing happen. Hey, Tom, you're watching, man. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah. So do you think that – This idea of anxiety, whether it's taking you away from the old drug dealers or pulling you towards successful people or pulling you towards the people that you admire in your church is like magnetism in some way. Is it a feeling that's driving you towards becoming what you want to be? It sounds like it's a force bigger than you that's outside of us and inside of us. It's pulling us towards where we want to be. that magnetism and repellent is cool. It's real, isn't it? Like when you're around, Hey, there you go. Tom's up for a podcast. A hundred percent on both of ours. Here we go. There you go. So, um, yeah, that repellent is really strong. Like when you're, when I was around drug dealers, it was like, I couldn't get near them. Like I had to get like that. You can feel like that tension. Like I had to get out of there. Yeah. Um, but then the magneticness of it with other people is very real. Yeah. The magnetic part of that is like, I can't get close enough to this person. Like I want to be closer to them. I need to be like right next to them. I need to learn and I want to be here and I want to like soak all this in. But then other people like, you know, it's like you have to warm up to being comfortable enough to being around them. If you're like intimidated by them, but that whole, that whole concept is very true. The magnetism and repellent. Yeah. In life, no doubt. Yeah. Yeah, man. I feel it. I feel it in my, you know, being in some uncomfortable situations too earlier in life or still every now and then. Like you almost feel... Like if you take two magnets and you take the opposite poles, like there's a real thing in between them. Like you can feel it being repulsed. And I think that we have that inside us when we're on the wrong path. Like there is some force we bump up against that is like, this is the wrong thing to be in. And you can feel it. And the same way when you're on the right path and you, the endorphins are flowing and you're doing this thing that's right. And you're getting goosebumps. Like that is the right path. Like, There's something bigger than us that knows the direction in which we should be headed. And it lets us know, man. And that gets me back to this idea of communicating with nature. Maybe that's divine intervention. It's God. Maybe it's nature. But whatever it is, man, the awareness that there's something bigger than us communicating to us on a daily basis. Like, man, it brings me incredible joy. juice, man. And it makes me thankful. It fills me with gratitude and fear and all of these things. But I want more people to be aware of this thing, this thing we call life, constantly communicating with it. Because I think the more you become aware of it, the more you can begin to interact with it. And the more you can interact with it, the more you can understand the path that you should be on. And it's something everybody, man, can be in. It can be, it can happen, right? Because you feel it, it's there. Yeah, a couple of years ago, I fell into this really good business opportunity that was great. I was like, this is incredible. Like I got set up with this guy and this team and it was like a really good path to making a really good living. And it was just a really cool opportunity. But I felt terrible about it the entire time. I felt like something was wrong from the onset of the first meeting. But I went along with it anyways, because I was like, well, I mean, this is a great opportunity. And it kind of fits. I was doing digital marketing at the time. I'm like, this fits my digital marketing background. This is a sweet spot. Like, there's a lot of potential here. But something felt so wrong about it, about the guy who ran it. And I could not get past it. And I stuck it out for over a year. While the whole time not feeling good about it. Not just having this pit in my stomach when I would talk to this guy. Every single time I talked to him, I was repulsed. I felt like this repulsion where I did not feel comfortable speaking to him. I did not feel comfortable hanging with him. I don't know. It was intangible. I could not tell you what it was. And I found out some stuff later on that confirmed the way that I was feeling. But I ended up getting out of it. before I knew the stuff I ended up getting out of it. And I was like, I don't care if this is like successful. I can't, I don't care that I can't even articulate what's wrong here. I know something's wrong and I'm not supposed to be here. And so I left it. And it's cool too. When you leave something like that, there's no regrets. Like I didn't have any regrets. Like, yeah, there was money left on the table. I didn't care because I knew I had to get the heck out of there. It didn't matter to me. It did not matter what the situation was. I had to get out. That was a great lesson for me of just listening to... It was almost like I didn't even have a choice to listen. I wasn't choosing to listen. I could not ignore it. I had to get away from it. That was really one of the examples in my later life, like recently that that's happened, but that happened a lot whenever I was younger and I ignored those signs all the time. I was always hanging around people. I shouldn't have been hanging around doing things I shouldn't have been doing. And I knew I shouldn't, I shouldn't be doing this, but I had like low self-esteem and, uh, you know, I just wanted people to like me and I thought that what I was doing was cool. Um, and so I went down some paths that I shouldn't have gone down, but I think That's one of the things in life, you know, you make your mess, your message, you learn from the things that you, because everybody always says, I wish I could go back and do it over again. I don't wish that because that's not the point. Yeah. I don't, I don't think reincarnation is real. I think it's, I think it's a bunch of BS. I think reincarnation is real in the sense that we have DNA. And so when you have a child, that's an extension of your DNA. So in a way that's your DNA reincarnating. like another version of the DNA strand and evolved version of it. Right. And so I look at that as kind of, that to me makes sense. And like, that's a, if there is a reincarnation, that's what it is. It's like, cause of course that, that is reincarnation. When you have somebody, when you have a child and they look like you, They act like you, they have your mannerisms, things like that. It's like, how is that not something in your DNA strand reincarnating again and again? When you have personality traits or you have, even when you have like genetic things that are passed down generation to generation, how is that not reincarnation? Just seems like that's what that is to me. I don't, that's just my own personal thought on it. And I don't even know why I'm talking about that right now. I totally lost my train of thought. No, it's perfect, man. I agree. And I think that even speaks to generational trauma. You look at the way in which our lineage unfolds. Like, when we look at that, it seems to me like I could see how that's karma. Like you could do something in your life. And I, sometimes I think about this when, when I go way down the rabbit hole of some of the most powerful and the most seemingly corrupt people in my life, my, how can they, how can they live this life where they have so much power and it, And sometimes I just play with that rabbit hole, but then I look at their kids and I'm like, oh, their kids are going to live in their shadows and have to pay the price for this person's greed forever. And you think to yourself like, wow, can you imagine making decisions in your life knowing your child is going to have to pay for that? I think that's what happens when you start looking at the way in which a lot of people at the very top, they seem to give themselves to this other thing rather than something a little bit more virtuous. Like you can't serve two masters on some levels. And it seems to me like if you really want to compete at the highest level of anything, you can't really have a family. If you want to be the very best at something, you have to compete at a level that demands your attention constantly. And that means you can't be around. You can't be the father. You can't be the husband because you have to be constantly competing to be the best at your craft. And you see that leak into the championships and stuff like that. And the kids pay for that. Like there's, there's a generational cost or, you know, um, a reincarnation cost at being not your best self for the people that love you on some level. I don't know if that thoroughly makes sense, but I think it's there, man. It's in our genes. It's in generational trauma. And what we do in this life has a radical effect on those that have our genes later in life, maybe multiple generations. Well, George, listen, man, generational curses are real. The spiritual realm is real. There are powers and principalities that rule that we can't see. These powers and principalities are real. They are here. We can't see them, but you can see them in the way things manifest in people. But those things can be broken off. Those things by, by your own choices, your own decisions, your own prayers, break these things off of me, break these things off of my family. It takes, it takes the prayer, the decision, but also the actions and the choices you make. Yeah. Because you want to break those, that, that those things off and your lineage. Like I want to be, I want to be like a, a lineage breaker, right? I want to start a new lineage for my family and the things that got passed down that are curses, right? Because you think about, and I think honestly, I mean, obviously addictions, alcoholism, poverty mindset, that's a curse, but a lot of like hereditary diseases and illnesses, those are curses. Some of them are genetic. Some of them are curses that are put on people. And this has been, You know, this is in the Bible and in many other things also, like these things are not folklore. They are for real. They're for real. And we have to treat them like they're real. We can't just treat them like they are. We can't treat them flippantly like, oh, Yeah. You know, my, I mean, you hear this so many times, like genetic, you know, say like heart disease is in the family line. Like, why is that there? It wasn't always there. Something, it got there, but it doesn't have to be there. You can be the one who changes it. Yeah. I believe that. I don't have heart disease in my family, thank God. There's colon issues in my family. My dad had colon issues. He had colon cancer. I've been tested. I'm good right now. My sister's had issues. There's something there that I'm going to pray against. I'm going to eat against. I'm going to eat the right things. I'm not going to consume things that are going to add to it. I'm going to break that. Also, just the awareness of it just to like talk about it and treat it in a different way of like this isn't just how it is this isn't just how it has to be this might have been how it was but I'm making the decision it stops with me one of those things too is like just anger right like rage and anger that's one that I noticed for myself is like I don't I don't like that part of me that's not me and I don't claim it when I'm when I get real angry like that that's not me I'm not going to claim it. I'm going to rebuke it. And it doesn't mean it's not going to come back. And it's not, it doesn't mean it's not going to creep its head up again, but I'm going to stand at the gate of my mind and cut that stuff off. It needs to be cut off. Yeah. I love it, man. And I think that standing up for yourself and not, Having the courage to sit with uncomfortable thoughts is a great way to begin to manifest positive things in not only your life, but in the life of your family. And it's hard, man. It's hard to sit down with these ideas that belong to your father and your mother and this humiliation that may be in your genes or this desire to self-destruct or this desire to self-sabotage yourself. Man, we all have these things in us, and it's hard to sit with them. But if you don't sit with them and you don't battle them in your own mind, like that's not true or it's not true anymore. That's the old me. If you don't do that, then you will manifest those things in your relationships, man. everyone can do it. And it starts for some people, it might be just getting up and going for a walk in the morning. For some people, it might be looking in the mirror and be like, Hey man, you look pretty good today. You've working out, you know, whatever it is, man. But take that one step every day to talk to yourself and sit with the uncomfortable thoughts and hold them and let them go, man. I, I think that that, and I love the idea of breaking the curse or breaking the cycle, man. That's beautiful. it needs to be done. We need to do it. And it needs to be looked at as like a necessity, not like a, Oh, that'd be nice. Yeah. No, it needs to go. That kind of stuff needs to go. If, if something can change because of you making the decision to change it, then let's freaking change it. Going back. You know, we talked about this before we started this, this podcast, but I, I had, I was, I read that one thing to you about integrity that people don't, that we have great respect for are powerful people. What makes someone powerful is the trait of keeping your word. When you feel powerful, you perform well and you feel good. What do we need to get into the game of keeping your word? Start by giving your word. I'm going to give my word that I'll do this. Then I'm going to keep my word that I'm going to do this. And it's such a rare thing because it's amazing that something so simple and important is so rare. And that's why integrity is a word we don't say enough or hear enough anymore. It's my highest value, integrity. Am I integrous all the time? No. But man, I want to be and I try to be on a regular basis because integrity is everything. If I don't have integrity, I'm going to hate myself. I'm not going to like being with me. And if I don't like being with me, then nobody else is going to like being with me. That's so true, man. It's like a lighthouse. This is fantastic. You know, this is our second podcast together. I really love the conversation, man. I feel like we're cut from the same cloth in so many ways, but still have so many different, you know, areas to uncover together, man. I hope you can come back at some point in time. We continue this conversation, but before I let you go, man, where can people find you? What do you got coming up and what are you excited about? So you can find me, my website is lead impact transform.com. You can find out about me there and my coaching business. If you want to talk, just go to LinkedIn, Rob Z Wentz, you can find me there. And as far as going on, I'm, you know, with your true life podcast is your thing. The unstuck movement is my thing, man. And just those stories of helping people get unstuck from difficult places in their life. If you want to break the chains that are holding you back you need examples from people who have done it so that's my uh big mission is getting that out to the world and telling more of those stories and and showing that there is a pattern and a formula for you to have breakthrough in any area of your life so check out the unstuck movement podcast yeah I would definitely recommend it um I love the format. I love the way in which you, no nonsense, just coming with it, man, right out of the gate, helping people. And I think that you have left a really cool catalog for people to go and begin their journey and find someone to do it with. So we'll hang on briefly afterwards. Everybody else, thank you so much for hanging out with us today. Truly enjoy the conversation. Thomas, you are the man. Thanks for hanging out with us today. Everybody else in the chat, truly appreciate it. I hope everybody has a beautiful day. That's all we got. Aloha. See ya.