Ladies and gentlemen, I hope the world is treating you well. I hope that the sun is shining and the birds are singing and the wind is at your back. Got a great show for you today. Back again with the legendary Kevin Holt. And for those of you who may not know, Kevin has been on the show quite a few times. He's an enigmatic character, a soul who dances to the rhythm of life's melodies and explores the mysteries of existence with an insatiable curiosity. An author, a traveler, and a connoisseur of life's wonders. Kevin embodies the essence of freedom, weaving his own narrative amidst the vast expanse of existence. With each step of his journey, he embraces the sweet nectar of liberation, allowing the winds of fate to guide him through the tapestry of experiences. Kevin Holt, thank you for being here today, my friend. How are you? You always manage to embarrass me with your introductions. Did you write that? Because that's certainly not from any of my marketing. That's really good, man. It's true, man. I think that you have like this incredible curiosity that leads you on all these adventures. And every time I talk to you, you know, last time you were like underwater the time before that you're like in this cabin in the woods and now you're back in Bali, man. yeah last time we talked I was doing the dive training in norway and I think it was right before the end and um it was fun but it ended on a kind of stressful note my very last dive was super stressful and I used to have I used to have a big beard because I thought you know I'm in norway I'm living in a cabin I'm gonna grow a beard just it's a stupid man thing but you know some men are gonna get that But then I realized why divers don't wear beards. And I didn't find out until the last day that all divers I've met since then are like clean shaven, buzz cut. And this, so I'm not going to take, make this a very long story, but we wear these helmets and underneath it, there's a chin strap that kind of keeps it from floating up because when you're in, it's buoyant. So when you're in the water, the helmet keeps like floating up. And because of the beard, it wasn't tied tightly around my chin because the fluffiness of the beard gave it this little buffer. So what happened was, and we were doing some work underwater. It was probably about a 40-minute dive. and we were working with airlift bags. So there is a steel one ton frame, like a cube. And then we were attaching these airlift bags and then you basically you fill it with air and then it lifts the frame so you can move it around so it moves stuff underwater. And I was almost done with the project about halfway through and the chin strap came loose and started riding up into my mouth. And it sounds like a stupid thing. But what happens is when that gets in your mouth, first of all, it's super uncomfortable and it's hard to talk. And it was it was covering the air regulator. So because you need suction for the air regulator to work. So every like third of I would be able to take three, four breaths and then the air would stop. And I'd be like, oh, shit. Right. And then so it's super uncomfortable. And then I had to finish the work and stuff. So I was real stressful. But anyway, that's that was my last dive of that So yeah, I finished that I haven't found any work in that domain. It's quite difficult to find work So I'm back in Bali doing what I was doing before I'm kind of like back in the teaching space now like online teaching so yeah Back in Bali just came back in Thailand. Yeah, what's going on in Thailand? What are you doing over there? Oh uh I just had to do a visa run so if you choose to move to indonesia they have there's like different visas you can be on so if you were to come let's say next week you would be able to stay on a visa on arrival for 60 days but then you have to leave and come back So, and you can do that pretty much indefinitely. You could just keep leaving and coming back. So I've turned it into a little excuse for like mini vacations. Somehow I have to leave for 60 days. And then I decided to do just two, three weeks in Thailand and check it out and come back. And Thailand is a bit, it's interesting now because Southeast Asia typically has very strict drug laws. Yeah. I mean, Philippines, when you get to the Manila airport, there's a sign. It literally says right when you arrive, death to all drug traffickers. So I believe they have the death penalty for even minor offenses. And the president, Duterte, he was literally just killing drug dealers. That was his drug policy. he's like you want to sell drugs I'll kill you and you literally send hit squads out and kill these guys wow um that's the most extreme country uh singapore I don't think they have the death penalty but um they'll like cane you and stuff publicly sometimes uh they'll give you several years in jail thailand is I think similar you get jail time for you for just you know possession of minor amounts but last year they made it com they made marijuana completely legal out of nowhere. They went from this harsh drug policy. Now it's legal everywhere. There's dispensaries everywhere. It's insane. Like every block. Wow. And you can go in there. They got all kinds of strains. They've got gummies. They've got brownies. So I was like a kid in a candy shop because I've never really lived in a country that had that. I mean, I guess in the States, how is it in Hawaii? Is it legal there? It is, but it's still sort of like behind a paywall in a way that you have to get a medical card and you know, you got to go through a lot of sort of song and dance in order to get it. And then you're flagged and, you know, you're still treated somewhat like either, either like a criminal or as if you're mentally deficient or something along those lines. Really? Yeah. But I mean, in Hawaii, like you don't really need, like everybody knows somebody that's selling weed in Hawaii. You can't walk five feet without smelling a bunch of weed. So if you want to do it legally, like, You know, you can get a card and buy it through some dispensers. You know, there's an interesting thing here in Hawaii, though. Even the dispensaries here, there's only one place that actually sells the product that's made in Hawaii. So many of the dispensaries here sell products from out of state, which is kind of its own problem, you know, because Hawaii grows some of the best cannabis in the world. They have such a fertile soil and so many knowledgeable people have been growing for so long and some wildly amazing strains here. You would think that they would, that the majority of cannabis dispensaries here would have contracts with local people, but it's not the case. Only one place that I know of sells stuff specifically from here. And so you can begin to see the political alignment and my brother's got the license and all that kind of stuff. You know, there's all these behind the scenes contracts where most of the stuff they get from out of state. But I mean, if you know somebody, you know, in the US, it's state by state, right? Every state's got their own thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think each state, but I did hear that it seems like this year they're looking to kind of open up interstate commerce, which should fundamentally shift everything, I think. Are you in favor of that? What's your stance? Do you want full legalization? Is that what you agree with? Yeah, I've talked to quite a few people and I think that opening up interstate commerce will, you know, finally allow like the federal, it'll force the federal authorities to see it in a way that is. more of a lucrative than it is um a setback and I think once that begins to happen then that begins to change the hearts and minds of people and there's no longer hiding and that I think in my in my opinion that begins to pave the way for psychedelics and maybe psilocybin and kind of open up this next avenue for commerce so I'm excited for it and I hope it does go through yeah Yeah, me too. It was interesting to see how Thailand was dealing with it because apparently it's only been a year or two since they've done this, but there's already some pushback within government going, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is too much. And I think they're starting to talk about walking it back to maybe medical because it really is everywhere. I'm not exaggerating. Every town I went to, every island, there's more of those almost than convenience stores. It's just all over the place. So obviously you get varied quality cause it's not really controlled, but you could literally just go on Google maps though. And usually Google maps says, you know, which ones are good. yeah but I had a great time I was just like like I said kid in a candy store going and try different things and you know uh then travel different places and I always have my supply it's pretty fun yeah so yeah anybody free to go to thailand now now's the time check it out if you want to do a little cannabis tourism they got mushrooms more or less openly too it's interesting really Yeah, you can't buy it in a store, but certain islands, I was at some beach bar and they just literally had them there in a jar and you could just buy them and they'll even make a little drink out of it for you. Oh, nice. So I was at one beach. The ones I bought were a dud. I think they were there too long. So they lost potency. And that's a problem. You don't know, right? It's not controlled. There's no distributional quality check. But, yeah, they took it and they ground it up and they put it in a little citrus orange juice shot and just serve it to you. And you can just order joints from the bar and they'll roll it, bring it to you, sip a beer, watch the sunset, smoke a joint. I mean, I think it's great. Yeah. Yeah, me too. I, I think it's, um, I think it's about time. You know, it's when I look back on my use and so many people that I've spoken to when I was a kid, you know, you would buy cannabis off the name alone. Like I'm going to get the white widow, but you never knew it was, it was like folklore. You heard stories about it, but that doesn't mean it's the same strain that your uncle Johnny got when he was 12. It ain't the same man. But nowadays you can look at the TURP profile and you can sort of understand, you know, um, what it is you're doing. I had a really great conversation with Sebastian Marincolo, who's pretty knowledgeable about the cannabinoid system. And he was, we got into a really deep discussion and he was saying that think about cannabis, like wine, like what region is it grown in? And you know what, George, you wouldn't leave your wine out in the sun all day, would you? And then drink it and expect it to be good. He's like, it's the same thing with cannabis. Like there's a way to take care of it. You shouldn't leave it out. You know, after a few months, it's probably not very good. Like you probably get rid of it, you know? And, We don't know that. We're still kind of children when it comes to using cannabis in a mature way. And I think that that will change with the legalization too. You'll see that kind of the way craft beers came up. You can see craft cannabis come up and you have a more mature relationship with it. And that should help the way people think about it and act on it and understand what is it a tool for mind enhancement? Can it be? Probably. Probably. Yeah, as with anything, got to be careful. I do notice when I was in Thailand smoking like every day, I definitely got laser in some respects. But not too bad. I think I did all right. I still worked out. I still got some work done. But there is a tendency to just, yeah, it's kind of, I think too much use can sort of mush your brain a little bit in the sense like you're not as sharp. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. I like to think of, I like to think of cannabis and psychedelics as sort of alternate states of awareness. And if you're not used to being in an environment then you're slow in it. If you're not used to being in an environment, you're cautious. If you're not used to being in an environment, you're scared. But if you can be comfortable in an environment and know your way around, you can function really well and probably better. But there is a learning curve. Especially with different elements and different strains or potencies and set and setting. It's very difficult at times to be in an environment with which you're comfortable. But that's why some people microdose, I think. And I think people that do microdose, whether you're doing the Stamens method or whether you have the Kevin Holtz method or You know, the Paula Powell method. I think your method is to drink it in an orange juice shot on the beach in Thailand. I don't know. I tried a brownie while I was there. How do you feel about edibles? Do you like them? I've done them quite a bit, but... These days, I'll occasionally smoke a joint, occasionally, and usually I'll work primarily with psilocybin. I'll do microdosing and some macrodosing here and there, but that's probably the extent of those particular plant medicines. Edibles, I think it changes form, right? When you take the edibles, it drops the hydroxy or something like that, and it fundamentally changes the way your body enhances that high. What's your take on them? Yeah. Well, I think one of the major selling points for legalizing it is the fact that specifically edibles, you don't know what you're getting if you don't have like labeling and somebody's controlling quantity and quality. And when I was kind of experimenting with edibles years ago in a country where it's not freely available like Thailand, I would just, it was always a mixed bag. It would either be not enough or too much. So I really like the way they do it with the gummies where they say, this is a five gram one, this is a nine gram one. And then you can just try and see what your fun limit is. And I had like one time I did get a brownie there that wasn't labeled and it was like, I don't want to say it was bad, but it freaked me out for like an hour where I just was like, oh, my God, what if Google spies on my Gmail account? They're going to see all this shady shit. You know what I mean? I got real scared for a while that I was going to get surveilled and thrown in jail, you know, a little paranoia. Yeah. So that's what I think is good about controlling it so you can figure out your own limit. Yeah. Do you think the paranoia is good? Like I was speaking to some people who call it like greening out. Like, oh, you start greening out. But then they were telling me how that's a good thing. Like on some level, when you green out like that and you get all paranoid, it forces you to look at things in your life that are probably irrational, but it puts them right in front of you. Like, oh, Google's going to look at my stuff. Like on some level, that thought was in the back of your mind, but now it's at the forefront. You can't get rid of it. Yeah, I don't know. At the time, I thought, yeah, maybe it's good that I think about this. But as time goes on, I'm like, what the fuck use was that? Because I can't do anything about it. It's not like I'm going to leave Gmail and suddenly go on this other, like I have, I'm not too lazy to just leave Gmail. So I don't know. And also there's no escaping it. There's absolutely no escaping government tech surveillance on your communication. So just, you know. try to be a decent person stay above board the best you can yeah um so I don't know if it really achieved anything I mean maybe think about certain things but whether I act on it or not this remains to be seen Well, you're still thinking about it now. Like it's still fresh enough in your mind where when you go, it's just as a funny anecdote. I kind of, uh, you don't really think about it anymore because I decided later there's, there's nothing I can do. Yeah. They're going to, they're going to see it. So whatever, uh, open book guys, read my Gmail and you'll see what I'm doing. Just send me a tax bill. Ding. You got mail, right? Your post has blown up. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? On some level, though, I think it teaches empathy because once you're in that situation and you start freaking out, you get all paranoid, you're probably more equipped to help somebody else who gets paranoid because you've been in that situation. You're like, oh, man, I don't know what they're going through. They're acting like a lunatic, but they've been there. On some level, it helps you empathize a little bit. Yeah. When you're in it, though, like it does make me understand anxiety a bit more just from that brief moment of feeling panicky. Yeah. Because when you're in it, it's really hard to turn it off. Yeah. I mean, I managed to do it, but I had to do like a bunch of rounds of shamanic breath work and like take a shower. And then eventually it went away. But if you're in it, it's really hard to see the exit. I understand that better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so yeah, there is a point there. Yeah. I'm hopeful that. know there's a lot of talk right now about the the um endocannabinoid system and they're really there's a lot of people doing lots of work trying to figure out the way in which that particular system works in humans and and and how it works with different types of you know sativa or just different types of cannabinoids and It's interesting, you know, it's possible that we're on the cusp of figuring out how to really dial in these particular cannabinoids and how it makes us feel and maybe allows us to have different states of awareness or consciousness or I don't know, it's kind of the Wild West in some ways, but it's pretty interesting. Yeah. I mean, you've had a lot of these talks. Have you been doing this podcast for at least two, three years now? I feel like we did our first one, I want to say it was almost two years ago. Yeah. Plus or minus. Yeah. Maybe a little over. Yeah. So you've probably, I mean, you must've been talking to talk to hundreds of people by now. I'm coming up on almost 650 episodes. that's, that's insane. And I see you cursing all the time. You're almost like, you're almost daily these days. Yeah. I mean, you're doing at least three, four a week, right? Yeah. For a while. Like I'm in the midst of moving from Hawaii to California. So I've slowed down, but I was doing two a day for, you know, a few months, like last year, just knocking them out back to back. And, you know, it's, it's been a whirlwind. It's exciting. And, and, um, imagine sitting down with fascinating people and just picking their brain and having conversations. And it's been mind blowing, man. I've learned so much about communication, topics I'm fond of, and built some really cool relationships. Yeah. So what's your biggest, I mean, you've been doing this for like three years, talking to hundreds of people. What is this giving you big picture? What is your main takeaway from all these people that you talk to? Has it inspired you towards great life? Are you inspired for humanity or what? What has this done for you? Well, thanks for asking. It's fundamentally changed the way I view communication. How so? While I can't speak for everybody, I know for me, prior to doing so many episodes in the podcast, communication for me was an exchange of words between people, a dialogue. And it lacked a lot of meaning in my life. And now when I have a conversation with you or other people, and because I am not right there next to you, I'm trying to focus not only on what words I choose to speak to you, but on the sound of my voice, the tone of my voice. I'm looking at the way that you move. I'm conscious of the way that I move. And when you talk to me, I'm trying to use... All of my body to listen to what you have to say, because it's important. I want not only you and me to have a good conversation, but I want the listening audience to feel as if they're here and they're part of it and they're learning as well. And so I've learned through this podcast, if you want to have a meaningful dialogue with someone, Not only do you need to be present, but you should try to incorporate all of your senses. And when you do that, it changes your awareness. You can feel it. So many times I get goosebumps when I'm talking to people or I feel like there's a real connection. So it's changed the way I communicate and it's helped not only my conversations here, but it's changed my relationship with my wife and my kid and crucial conversations that I have with other people. And it's kind of really helped me understand meaningful dialogue. And I know that sounds crazy, but it's true. You have that many conversations with that many people. And some are passionate. Some may not be so passionate. And some people have written a book. And you get to see this level of creativity that's sort of just seeping from their pores on some level. And some people are talking about abuse. And it's fascinating to me to really get to be a part of someone else's experience. And they're sharing it with everybody. It's mind-blowing. Yeah, it seems that you've kind of mastered through this process the art of purposeful communication or conscious communication. Because as you said, you know, normally you're just talking about nothings day to day, maybe small talk. but there's something about setting a time and a space and maybe even a topic maybe no topic depends on who you're talking to and how it flows and then that gives a lot more meaning to it because you're going into it already with a certain intention you're like let's meet at this time I'm going to give you such amount of time and here's a few bullets so yeah that it gets through the uh the nonsense and you bring the consciousness to it it seems Yeah, let me throw it back on you a little bit. As an author, you know what it's like to create the written word. I'm sure that you have your own unique process for translating what's inside your mind to a piece of paper and then trying to understand what an audience is gonna think of it. Like that's its own process in itself. And so what happens when you incorporate all those senses together? I think what's happening right now is that we as human beings are beginning to learn how to have purposeful conversation. I think that's why there's so much war. There's so many problems, so much poverty is that we are children and we don't know how to communicate. Only now with the invention of AI are we ready to take this next step where we use imagery, we use tone, we use feeling. And if you think of the spoken word like a verb, images like an adjective, and listening through, listening through, consciously as like an adverb all of a sudden you can put those all together and it's like a real language where we no longer talk past each other but you need all of these elements in order to understand meaning I think poetry is probably the closest thing to it but I think we're moving in that direction interesting Yeah. And as a result of this, you met some interesting people, right? Because I keep seeing you. I didn't get a chance to ask you about it, but you're involved in a couple of things. One you told me about, which is something that Octopus Project. And then there's another one I don't remember the name of, but I remember you were excited about it. So what are these things that you're doing? I mean, I don't even know how you find a time for this stuff, man, because it's like you're a husband, you're a father, you look like kind of jacked sometimes. So you obviously work out and then you're an author and then you're doing this all the time. And now you're doing those other things on the side. So I imagine my picture of you is you sleep five hours a night. I don't know if that's accurate, but what are these other things that you're doing? Well, I recently became a founding member of the Octopus Movement. And the Octopus Movement is a group of people who are neurodivergent. And the way... Retarded? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. I'm just kidding. You can't say retard. Well, it's... You know, growing up, I thought that there was a problem with me. Like, I would always, like, say things and people would be like, dude, what are you talking about, George? Or I would say things that make people feel really uncomfortable. And they'd get mad at me. And I'd be like, what? And they're like, you shouldn't say that. I'm like, why? That's probably true. You think that's true? I'm like, yeah, don't you? And they're like, no. You know, like I remember, I remember thinking like, dude, this guy probably beats his wife, you know? And they're like, what do you, don't say that. I'm like, why? Look at all the bruises on her arm. Don't you think that's a problem? Maybe she gets those, you know? And like my parents be like, dude, you shut up. She falls a lot. Yeah. You're like, that's not true. Come on. And look at this guy. This guy's kind of a dick. man, he's always yelling at people problem. Right. And then other people would be like, well, yeah, like, you know, and it's not like it's some grand vision. Like people see that stuff, but I remember seeing it at a young age and people would just be like, you know, whatever. So yeah, My, the way I think about things, and I think a lot of people are like this, we're not structured to, you know, A then B then C then D. But for me, I would just go off on tangents and it was hard for me to focus and stuff like that. And when I, I talked to a gentleman named Kerry, Kerry, and he's a, he's a film producer, does really cool films. And him and I were just talking about stuff and we ran it up way off on these tangents. And He's like, you know what, George? I'm part of this group. I think you would really fit in there. Why don't you check us out? And so I reached out to him, and then from there I reached out to a guy named Perry, Perry Knopper, who is – he's the founder of it. And he's got a really cool story about being homeless and losing everything and starting this incredible community where he just reaches out to all these people, and they've started this think tank where they're having – you know it turns out people that think differently are kind of a pain in the ass for corporate america you know that happens in my life right you know that right I know that it's like your first book you know uh young successful and miserable that's right But it is. When you work for a corporation, a lot of the times, or if you go to school, you're expected to fit in this box. Here's your job description. You do these things. When you get out of line, it could be a problem, especially when you get out of line and what you're saying is true and it causes problems for people up above, then you become a real problem. And there's a lot of people like that. so this particular group of people in the octopus movement tend to be people like that and so perry took all these people he started he started this like sort of think tank where corporations will come and they will use this particular group of people to brainstorm an idea about how to solve a problem and he builds it like in this incredible way where look You don't want any of these people working for you, but you definitely want them thinking for you because they think outside of the box. So come over here to this group. We'll help you think of and solve problems in ways you didn't know were possible, and you don't got to deal with these knuckleheads. So it's kind of a cool little thing. And I signed up with them, and so many people I met were – were uh just amazing people from like dubai and they had all these amazing stories about how they came to be and so many of their stories resonated with the way I was brought up and it's it's like finding your tribe in some way so that's been a really cool experience for me and and um I try to reach out to as many as I can and have them on the podcast because I think that there's a lot of people out there like you and me and a lot of other people in the octopus movement that see the world in a different way and have not really had the opportunities come their way that they should have. So that's how I kind of met up there. Yeah, that's really cool. That's interesting. And do they ever organize annual meetups or how do they stay in touch? Yeah, so... Much like I think an octopus has a brain in each arm. Is that true? Do you know if that's true? I don't know. I think it sounds good. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's, it's kind of like that. It's like herding cats in a way. Like there's all these different branches of the octopus movement. It was like the founding members. And then all these groups have broken off and, you know, you can migrate towards all the different groups. There's they're working on setting up hubs throughout Europe. There's going to be places to stay. There's people that make movies. There's people that do music. Yeah. It's like, I think that they're working on, on setting up a network of old churches where if you're part of the octopus movement, you can go to those churches like a hostel and stay there with other members and stuff like that. So that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I recommend it. If people are listening to this and you're interested in, in, in neurodivergent thinking, or you don't have to be neurodivergent, but I mean, if you're interested in seeing the world in a different way, go check out the octopus movement and talk to some of the members there. I can't recommend it enough. There's really cool people. And it's been really fascinating to be in there and be part of it. It's really cool. Yeah. And that's cool. That's an example of something that you discovered through this process that you went on, your journey of got to be more to life than this. And then you started this podcast, and then you met somebody that way. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Let me ask you this one. Okay. I've been thinking a lot about magnets lately and you know, you take the magnets and like you push them the opposite poles together and you can, you can't see anything, but you can feel like that sort of field in between that's repulsive. And then when you flip them around, they attract like that. Do you think that we as human beings have that sort of similar magnetism when we're on the right path for our life? And when we're on the wrong path for our life, it's repulsive on the right path. It's attractive. What do you think? i think so I think if you want to get metaphysical and mystical about it it's the same thing as the flow and obstruction if you look at the world in terms of there's only flow and obstruction if you are on the right path it should be flow there should be flow it should be obviously you're gonna have challenges but it should somehow feel there should be an ease to it it shouldn't feel like you're struggling too much whereas if you're on the path that's not aligned with your vibration or magnetism it will feel like there's just constant constant setbacks all the time and maybe like you're trying to put a round peg into a square hole type scenario I don't necessarily know where the, it's hard to say because if you're an entrepreneur, for example, you're obviously going to struggle a great deal. So it's hard to know when you're in the flow but doing normal struggles that are helping you or if you're just really on the wrong path and you need to stop and try something else. I guess that's a hard question for everybody because if it were easy, most businesses would succeed, but they don't. And then there's that question of when do you stop? that's a tough that's a hard one yeah because they always say the people that stop are right before the point where they're going to succeed yeah but then some people really should stop I mean there's a certain point where like you got no cash and you're homeless or whatever uh nobody wants what you're selling you know that's really difficult to to figure out yeah I think everybody who's a, who is on that path feels it because you, you know, if you commit everything you have to something, you know, where's your line when your wife leaves you, when you can't pay for your kid's school, is that, are you, are you on the one yard line when that happens? What do you choose? And if you, you see it all, what do you want more? And why is the other question? Yes. Well said. yeah why do you want that like why are you willing to destroy your you know relationships in life over this thing you're trying to attain is it that important if it's that important then like what is it for because usually people achieve they try to achieve money and status for better relationships but if you're better your relationships are destroyed on the way to get there that to me doesn't make a whole lot of sense but maybe to somebody else it does make sense Yeah. So many people on the path end up divorced or on a level of – I think you end up a different person. And if you go on the path and you become a different person, is it fair to say that you can have your old relationships if you're a new person? Probably not. Probably not. You probably outgrow them. Yeah, without a doubt. Without a doubt. I don't know if outgrowing is always the right word, but I think a lot of the times it's that. Yeah, I think there has to be growth in there because growing apart is still outgrowing, right? Yeah. Yeah, no, growing apart is a good way to say it. The reason I want to take it back is sometimes you can interpret it as saying I outgrew the relationship as meaning like I've become superior to these people, and that's the only nuance I was trying to walk back. But I agree more with the way you said it. Yeah. And that's the struggle right there. And if you look at Jeff Bezos, look back at the pictures of that guy when he was selling books on Amazon and look at his relationships and then look at him now. That guy's almost a different person. Look at Mark Zuckerberg when he started where he is now. That guy is a different people. They may have the same name, but they don't look the same. They don't have the same likes. They don't have the same tastes. They don't have the same pressures. Maybe that's the nature and the pressure of nature that molds you into a different person. Maybe that's what they were called to do. I'm not judging them or saying anything, but I am saying it's fascinating to look at the physical outcomes of who they were and who they are now. They looked like different people, man. Yeah. Well, isn't that the wisdom they say too, when you're on the path, as we call it, it's not about the end. It's about who you become along the way. Yeah. So whether you succeed or fail, you're going to grow, you're going to take risks and you're probably going to have different, different network, different relationships and be a different person at the end. So you should do it. Yeah. Whether, but not worried about success so much. It's so hard. I guess, I guess that's part of the journey because what I learned, I Like I've been away from UPS for over a year now. And what I have learned is that not only the story I told myself about who I was changed, but the people that validated my identity has also changed. People may not think about this, but when you get up and you do something every day, You tell yourself a story. I am George the truck driver. I drive this truck. I do this. Here's my boss. Here's my customer. Here's this package. Everything you do every day validates the story you tell yourself. And when you quit that, now all of a sudden there's a blank page. And it's hard to start writing. You know, you start, you know, you write and you ask a lot like that. I don't like that. That's dumb. You need to start writing and all these voices in your head. Like that's stupid. I know one's going to believe that. Well, you got to believe it. And like, that is like the first step on the path. You got to believe that you can write a new chapter and start it now and start writing, go edit it later, but start it now. Start writing it. And people may not believe the first paragraph, right? But you write enough of that story. You tell yourself that story long enough. You write with passion and kindness and love and excitement. People are going to start gravitating towards you and want to hear your story. And all of a sudden, this new story emerges out of the old story, whether it's a story snake shedding its skin or a butterfly out of a cocoon or a podcaster out of a truck driver you know what I mean like these new things happen and they can happen for all of you if you're willing to be serious about it And be honest about it and confront the problems in your life. Because I think the world wants us to do that. I think the world wants us to become the best versions of ourselves more now than ever. I think it's the opportunities are for everybody. It's hard, but it's worth it. yeah I've become more and more convinced that the only or maybe not the only but the best path towards greater self-awareness to being the best version of you I don't think you can attain that without going into the darkness yeah fully and something like you just described with the losing of the job Obviously, you would prefer not to lose a job. But when you lose a job, now you're thrust into asking these questions and you start deconstructing your identity. Now you have a new identity. You can write a new story. And a lot of people cling onto the story and the safety. And it's kind of ironic that actually the darkness and the pain is sort of the way through. And there's a lot of different ways you can do that, right? This case we're using is the loss of the job. In my past, one of it was going through the divorce. I think unconsciously, I was doing this through travel too. Because if you look at an ego and an identity, It's composed of various things, right? What's my name? What's my family? What's my culture? What's the nation I was born into and live in? We're all defined by these certain things. And one way travel helps deconstruct the ego is when you stay for an extended period in another place, you end up distancing from national identity, cultural identity. You're away from your family. So maybe, obviously, I'm not saying abandoned family. But a lot of people carry stuff with them from their family, from pressure from their parents or trying to trying to please them, meet their expectations. And that's sort of one way, I guess, and unconsciously I distance myself from all that. And then over the almost without realizing it over the years, sort of made my new whatever you want to call it, identity of sorts by shedding the old. And it wasn't always easy right you sometimes. It's uncomfortable. You're far. You're far away at times You're alone a lot of time alone in a strange place But yeah that I think I think that's the best way is like don't avoid Don't avoid the darkness basically maybe lean into it if you can Yeah, it's a great point It sounds a lot like Building or dating uncertainty you know what I mean by that like I so true though, right? Like what is going to happen? I don't know. Just do it anyway. What if it fails? It probably will. So what? And I think it gets harder the older you are. I mean, look at somebody that goes through a crisis in their fifties. You basically, you've been a time bomb your whole life and now you've blown up all like the relationships around you and stuff. Obviously, the younger, the better, you know, it's less damage to others, but I think you got to do it. I think, you know, there are I think I'm going to be 49. And I think that we should begin looking. Maybe we should teach this in schools is that like we teach about adolescence. We should talk about a second adolescence. Like there's a time in your life where you're no longer fit the mold anymore. And if you don't change... Part of you dies. It's like being in a cocoon and never breaking out. And I think that that's what happens. Like that's the midlife crisis is like, I can't do this anymore. And just, I have so much misplaced anger. I hate this. It's not worth it. This is not me. I don't want to do it. And like people, because people are so tough and, They'll fight that. And part of them will die inside. And they do it because they're so dang strong. I know I can get through this. I'm going to do this regardless. I'm going to sacrifice for this. But the truth is you're sacrificing who you could be. You're sacrificing a better version of yourself. You know, and you're telling yourself these things that you, well, if I don't do this, my family is going to suffer. Maybe. but maybe your family would be better. Maybe the world, consciousness, God, Buddha, nature, a higher version of yourself is desperately calling you to change because it knows that you can be better if you're willing to take that chance. I think that there's something real about a second adolescence. And I think psychedelics should be involved. There should be ceremonies and rituals about grown men going away and sitting with something for a week or two weeks or a month or with elders and figuring out what does it mean to be a man that's 50? What does that mean? And part of the – well, one of the biggest problems is that society tells you that there's something wrong with you when you go through that. Yeah. And we use the terms human childhood and human adulthood because that's what you're talking about, right? Yeah. Graduating from spiritual childhood to spiritual adulthood. Yeah. And when I hear somebody say they went through a burnout, I almost want to be like, congratulations. I mean, you're living in an insane world, an insane system, and you just woke up to it. And you one day went, what the hell am I doing? What is this all about? But they treat you like there's something wrong with you because you don't fit the unconscious sleepwalking model that everyone else is in and they want you to be in. Because as long as you stay in it, then it validates their choices. So almost everything is about... People are their main thing they need to survive it seems is to validate their own choices So they want to make sure the people around them do the same kinds of things that they're doing Because that means that they're doing the right thing and then when something like this happens. Oh my god, Ken He just went nuts and didn't come back to work must be something wrong with him. I'm good. I'm gonna stay here I'm miserable, but at least I'm not Ken. Yeah, what it can actually confront his misery. I You know, he looked at it head on. It was scary and it was shit, but he took some time off and he hopefully dealt with it and graduated to human adulthood and made better life choices that are more in aligned with what he really wants and who he really is. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. So yeah, say yes to burnout. Yes to burnout. I congratulate your burnout. Yeah, that's a, I mean... need more burnouts we need more people like looking at it that this is this is fucking insane and I don't want to do this anymore I don't want to be a cog in the wheel I'm tired of my creativity being stifled all the time yep yep yeah but worth and I think that that is what will change the world I think We say all the time, as above, so below. And when I look at my life, maybe it's just the way I see the world or it's the only way I can see the world. I see those same changes happening in our society. The burnout is this constant war machine. And the society that's breaking down is these young kids that are rallying right now at all these colleges that are just like, we ain't going to take it anymore. It's like Kent State all over again. And it's the financial system breaking down. And it's the old ideas of the boomers clashing. clinging on like one more beer, Ron, man, we can do it. You know, and like their ideas are dying. And this new, this new thing is being born with all these kids writing and like their ideas are going to come to life and their ideas are going to bring prosperity and their ideas are going to bring value. But you have to watch this other part of you die. And in some ways I see the kids as the new form eating the detritus of the old sort of detritus. Good word. Isn't that a beautiful word? I've never heard anybody using a sentence. Sorry, continue. Yeah, no, I just see that, you know, I just see that change that happened to me happening to the planet. And it excites me because even though I'm fearful of, even though I see the uncertainty in government, in finance, in people's lives breaking down, and I can see people that are scared, I feel that the planet... in the world is going through the same burnout that I went through and I know how much better it is on the other side I can see it and I know you may not have a lot of tangible things but you have a new idea of who you are and that's that's pretty much everything you have that I think yeah unfortunately I think it's going to drag out because people avoid it and instead of ripping the band-aid and going right into it the people are going to cling on and I think it's going to make the the bad times last longer than they fundamentally need to Yeah. I think we're going through, we're going to go through a darker period first. I don't know. Let me hear what you think. No, I don't know how long it's going to be. I don't know what form it will take. It could take multiple forms. But what I think big picture, the systems have always been corrupt. It's not new. But obviously, it seems to have accelerated in the last four or five years. Or not only accelerated, but become more transparent. So I think they've been doing this kind of stuff all the time. But I think they're doing more of it. I think they're doing it more brazenly. I don't know if they hit it fast forward on some kind of plan that I don't have the details to, but that's what it feels like. Simultaneously, I think more and more people are hip to it. They see it. We see what you guys are doing. We see that you're trying to fuck up the food supply because you don't want people to eat meat anymore we see that your looks like your geoengineering with you know formerly chemtrails as a conspiracy theory it's kind of not really conspiracy theory anymore yeah right um all these different levels the you know the vaccines covid the whole lockdown shit the wars multiple fronts that they don't want to back down from they do not want peace in ukraine They want more war. They want more war profiteering. They want to reconstruct after the fact. They want to make money just reconstructing Ukraine. But we see all this. Not all of us, but I think more and more people are looking at it like, what the hell? And I give credit to certain people. I give a lot of credit to RFK Jr. Because he's been using his platform openly telling people about this. And it's rare to see a politician really break that down. And so the question is... Do we have a critical mass? That's number one. Are there enough people that get it? Two, what can we do about it? And three, what are the leaders going to do about it? Because if we're hip to it, the leaders know we're hip to it, right? So what do we want? We want accountability. We want these people to say, yeah, we screwed you over. We'll stop doing it. We'll actually represent you. They're not going to do that. They're not going to just come out and say, yeah, you're right. You got us. We've been fucking you for decades. We're doing it even more now. We're sorry. We'll give you power back. I don't see it happening. I don't see the system fixing itself. So I think they would rather burn everything down than do that, than say, yeah, you win. We're going to give you power back. So that's why I think it's going down first. I don't know how long. I don't know if we've passed the point where we can't do anything about it. But I think ultimately good wins in the long run. I just don't know how long it's going to take. yeah you know if history is any sort of oh I heard the quote that said uh the best predictor of future behavior is past relevant behavior and I can't think of a time when people who had power relinquished it power is always seized you know that's why you have these uprisings and wars and you know prior to covid the whole world was on fire you had the yellow vests you had the the arab spring you know in the united states we've had all these riots with you know unions and it's the world's on fire and it's it's the people on the bottom that are rising up and they've been doing it for a long time you know it's not like this is just something that's popped up this is something that's getting progressively worse if you look at occupy wall street no wait no it's been building since then and you know some of those some of the people that were kids in 08 you know they're 38, coming up on over 30 years old now, you know, they're beginning to hold the levers of power. And, you know, I don't think too many of those people are being brought into the fold of the old ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, maybe generationally we'll get the old guard out and have new people in there. I'm just concerned that the system will corrupt anybody that wants to. It attracts narcissists and sociopaths, and there's always going to be some of them around. Yeah, I'm curious to see. I'm kind of a little excited, actually. I find it like a... a human drama that we're watching unfold before our eyes. You know, we just happen to be alive in this time of great change and upheaval. And I'm curious to see how it all turns out. I'll do my part, which is basically just telling things the way I see it. Cause I don't think anyone's going to invade my house here, but if it comes to that, it comes to that. Yeah. It's I'm always fascinated by like, people that run for office. I can't imagine being around someone who would be like, hey, Kevin, you know who would be a good president? Me. I would be. I'd be an awesome president. I should control 350 million people. Yeah. I'd be great at it. I know how to do it. You would. Like that should automatically disqualify people, right? Like anybody that wants to run. Raise your hand if you want to run for something. Okay, all you guys over here. Get on this boat. You guys all going for a cruise, man. It's so crazy. I agree. Yeah. Maybe we'll get there one day. You know, there's a great book John Ronson wrote called The Psychopath Test. And in that book, they just talk about the way in which the system self-selects for people without empathy. Oh, yeah. Right? All day long. I mean, we reward that. We reward that person with more and more and more because no one wants to do the dirty work. And the people that do get rewarded. Yeah, and that's why there's going to be a struggle because even if we achieve this future state, which in my maybe naive point of view would be smaller countries, smaller governments, and sort of more locally run democracies that are led by sort of tribal council of sorts of elders. right if you take I like the swiss model they don't have a they have a rotating president and there's just seven people in this council and they switch every year it's like the seven wise people yeah um but like that on a smaller level just sort of autonomous regions but we're not going to have that without the destruction of the big country and again like you said the people running the governments aren't going to just say we're going to give back power to you we don't want to be in control anymore so the only way to do it is to take it and I don't know what that's going to look like yeah I yeah it's not gonna be not gonna be nice yeah I i don't I don't see it I on some level I i gotta think that the financial corruption has to come like I don't know how they continue to paper over all the corruption and everyone just believes like They did whatever they want. They can release reports just the other day. Like every day there's stuff like this coming out. I forget what it was, the CDC or the FDA. There was, I think it was the FDA. They had a study on either COVID and myocarditis or the vaccines and myocarditis. That was over 130 pages. Every word redacted. They put out a report that has no readable words in it. And they're allowed to do that. How are you allowed to do that? Yeah. The people pay for that. The people pay to fund you and you're saying you're not going to read any of this report. That's insane. It's out of control. yeah that's all the time all the time all the time and if it's not redacting paperwork it's like look over here not here you know there's a bank we'll give you the vaccine trial we'll give you the trial information but you got to wait 75 years for it that instills a lot of confidence guys thanks a lot for that right yeah did you know anybody personally that took the vaccine and died my mom's uncle theoretically wow um but the thing is is it question mark because he was pretty old I think he was he was 92 um but he was otherwise okay I mean he didn't really have any uh any chronic illness but he yeah he died like a week or a couple days after it so Could have been a coincidence. We don't know. They didn't do an autopsy. Yeah. Right. They didn't do hardly any autopsies. So we really don't have the full picture of why these people are dying sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I had a friend, one of my best friends, Ruben, that he got vaxxed and two weeks later he died in his sleep, totally healthy. You know, he was two years older than I was. And, you know, it's when I look at Twitter sometimes, like the level of information I see coming out about those is. horrifying, you know, died suddenly, you know, and it's like, you don't, there's almost way too much to be coincidence there. When I look at all these people and there's this one, I think it's called wide awake, this person that I follow. And they always post like a person's tweets, like, And it's usually someone that's like, hey, I got double vacs. And then it reads their obituary. Obviously, I don't do enough work where I'm going to go and look that person up and make sure that's accurate information. I don't do any of that. But the guy posts a lot of them, man. And it's like... Man, I wonder if that's true or it's not true or... There's an upcoming lawsuit in Japan about this. I don't remember which organization is litigating against the Japanese government, but they are litigating because of the links, alleged links between the vaccine and cancer. They've had explosions of cancer, especially around young people. And this is actually, I've seen it also a bunch of different countries posting numbers like this, that it's like a 25% increase in cancers among young people. And you see the chart and it's like, it's a sustained increase over the last, literally since 2021. And it's been going up every year since then. So yeah, there's some pretty prominent medical professionals talking about links to cancer and turbo cancer and things like that. I've seen a few talks about it as well. One guy's name is Ryan Cole, I think is his name. He was talking about that, Dr. Ryan Cole. Yeah, it's just insane. It's insane that they can... I'm not even one of these people that's necessarily arguing that they did it on purpose. Because there's a lot of people that say, yeah, they're trying to depopulate people. Maybe they are. But even if they did it out of incompetence, the fact that they're not investigating and we're not allowed to look at stuff is just... I didn't sign up for this system. Did anybody ever ask you if you wanted to be ruled by people? No. They say, oh, you're allowed to vote. Yeah, but no one asked me if I wanted a leader. No one asked me if I wanted people above me that can tell me what I'm allowed to see and what my voting power goes towards. So I think people just want more personal freedom, like more autonomy. Yeah. I often wonder, like, you know, I think I'm confident in saying that the vaccines, in my opinion, are real-time experimentation on live human beings without them knowing. And you can go back. There's a really interesting talk at the Milken Institute where they had some really top doctors talking about Anthony Fauci was there and there was other prominent doctors from the CDC. And they were talking about, and this was prior to COVID, they said, wouldn't it be amazing if we could get people to see the common flu as an incredible threat, you know, we haven't had any sort of real advancements in vaccine technology. We still grow them from like an egg, you know, and it's such old technology and all these new ideas out there. Like what if we could find a way to get the body to promote its own antibodies for any disease that came in? And you could see the fervor with which they spoke about it. And I don't think that there was maliciousness in some of the ways that they were talking about it. I think that they were genuinely thinking about an incredible breakthrough in medicine that would allow the human being to live a better life. But then they fell back on, like, well, it's unethical. You can never have all these people and just inject them with all these different things. That would be unconstitutional. It would be unethical. You can't do that. You'd be breaking the Hippocratic Oath. And, you know... But you can't imagine. You need look back no further than Dr. Mengele to see all of the incredible medical experiments that were done on people. And no one talks about it, but I'm sure that they've learned quite a bit. You know, it's not something that we talk about, but... You know, the idea of medicine practicing is like they might they should just call it experimenting. You know what I mean? What's the difference between experimenting and practicing? Sounds kind of similar, but it sounds to me like that's never really stopped. Medicine is is a form of experimentation on the human condition, but we just don't see it that way. yeah I mean there's no other way to explain it because every other drug that gets released goes through like eight to ten years of large clinically controlled trials it didn't with this one I mean they had one trial of like three months and they rushed it out And it was crazy. The propaganda at the time was literally insane because I was very vocal at the time. I was on LinkedIn talking all kinds of shit because I was trying to discredit these people because they were saying the dumbest stuff. They're like, yeah. And I don't know if these are their real believers or if they're hired by the FDA or the pharma companies to promote. But they're saying, yeah, it's gone through the same rigorous protocols as every other drug. I'm like, how? It's not possible. If you're saying a normal drug takes eight to 10 years, this is only three months. No one's suggesting otherwise. You can't. Like we were all paying attention. It went through three months, four months of trials. You cannot possibly say it went through the same rigorous safety protocols because you just can't. But yeah, that's what they were trying to tell people. They were like, yeah, it's the same. It's the same as every other thing. It's been available for decades. Well, no, it's been around for decades, but it's never been used in humans before. So that's what it is. It's a massive experiment, and they pushed it out. And is it a coincidence that Pfizer and Moderna and these drug companies are buying up cancer companies now, cancer treatment companies? I think Pfizer just bought one for some insane number. I think they paid tens of billions of dollars for a cancer treatment. Why would they do that unless they thought there was huge profit in it? yeah you know without a doubt it's brought to light just how unspeakably corrupt the whole thing is and how every agency is captured and how um like the war industry war wants perpetual war pharmaceuticals they want perpetually sick people they want to make you sick and then they want the the cure too and the cure has seven other side effects that they can also sell you treatments for yeah right it's it's like a, yeah, somehow we need to get back to more natural living, but that's really hard. Right. Cause land is more expensive. Um, you gotta learn how to farm and stuff and that's a lot of work and most people have bills to pay, you know, but we gotta just, we gotta see if we can, I don't know, maybe the way is to gather up communities, uh, you know, pool resources and then you have a community, uh, plot of land that you all share and at least you have some source of healthy food at least and stay healthy that way, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think the, the first step is, you know, kind of harkens back to what we were saying earlier and that's being honest with yourself. Like, are you happy, thankful and grateful for what you're doing right now? Are you now being the best version of yourself? Is it, you know, for me personally, I went from making pretty decent money to not making any money. And that is a tough thing. In the US, they can fire you at any time, right? Yeah. I'm still in arbitration right now because I'm fighting everything. But there's something... visceral that happens when you go from this idea of someone making money. Now you're no longer this person making money. That means that my wife makes way more money than me. And what does that mean as me being a father? What does that mean me being a husband? What does that mean for my, my duties all the time? And, and you have to go like, like you said, you have to go through this darkness, but one thing that it means is that you get to be home more with your family. Another thing that it means is you'll get to understand what kind of education your daughter is getting. Another thing that it means is that you get to see if the partner you're with really loves you. You know what I mean? Because you've given them a reason to leave. You'll get to see if you really love your partner, if you're willing to have real conversations. Here's the thing. When you have a little bit of money, life's a little bit easier. I'm not saying you're better, but I'm saying life's easier. You don't have to talk about some things, and you can gloss over things both. when there is a problem in your family, be it health or monetary, all of a sudden, all of these, this facade of wellbeing falls aside. And here you're left with the real nuts and bolts of the relationship. Are you going to fix it? And I hope that people understand, I think that's the first stage of us getting out of this sort of servitude that we're in. Like, that's how I saw it. Like now that's how I see my life was like, I was a slave for a long time. And I, it was easier on, I thought it was easier. I thought I didn't have to think for myself. I could go to this place. I'd get a retirement. I'd make money. And, and that would be it. I would have all these people plan it out for me. And I did for a long time. And, and, the older you get, the more you realize what you lost in that process. And I think more people need to figure that out. Like you need, and I'm not saying what I did is right or wrong, but people should come to this road to Damascus moment where they have to think for themselves, what am I going to continue down this path? Or am I going to stop what I'm doing? And is this more important? And I think it is. I think returning to your family, I think maybe returning to intergenerational living is a great way for people to begin to understand the important bonds of family and relationships. And you live a better life that way. In the Western world, we have these ideas like you got to be out on your own at 16 or 17 and have this car, get this apartment, have this job. No, you don't. No, you don't. You know, if you have a kid in your twenties or your parents know so much more about raising a child than you ever will. And the fact that you could have them in the house with you, if you have a grandma that cooks the meals and a dad that works in the yard and you have a job and your wife can be with the kid, like that's way better. You know, when I, maybe you see this, you see that lifestyle in more third world countries, but I, in my opinion, I think it's some sort of hybrid system that I think there's something beautiful about it, man. And we've lost that. Yeah, there's a few things to comment on that. I think what you said about intergenerational living, I don't remember who did this study, but they looked at those blue zones where the people lived the longest. And one of them was in, I think, Sicily. I don't know. I don't remember exactly where she looked but she was looking at different factors and Nutrition was one but she said the biggest factor was social networks were these places that had nutrition and They also lived with people that were close to them or they lived in small towns where they knew everybody and they had that support network and That was an interesting study. I wish I had the link to it, but there's something to us being social animals and wanting to have that social network in our wellbeing, yeah? it's so true what you said about the uh like redefining of not redefining but you ask a lot of questions when you're two income earners and yeah one loser job because I'm going through that now but I'm on the other side okay because my partner lost she was you know kind of living on the edge found a job finally that thought was going to save the situation yeah and then lost it pretty pretty rapidly and I was sort of maintaining throughout the relationship don't want to I don't want to be with I don't want to have a dependent I want my partner to be not doesn't have to be 50-50 but I wanted like someone who's contributing and then we're both like sharing some of the burden and you know growing together and I was saying that like throughout the relationship that that's what I value in a partner And now the thing happens that I didn't want right now. And I don't I don't make a ton of money. I mean, I make enough for myself. Yeah. But now that I've got an extra mouth to feed, I had to decide, well, what am I going to do here? Like, how much do I love this person? Right. Yeah. And to my surprise, I was like, all right, I guess I got to find more work. And I started to find more work. And now, now it seems to be working out that I have enough to kind of float us for a while and let her figure it out. So yeah, those are, there's one other thing I want to comment, but I forgot what it was. Yeah. I, I think it's beautiful. I, you know, shout out to you. What's up, Cherry? So talk to you. Thank you for hanging out with us today. I, here's maybe Cherry could chime in on this too. I think that, One thing that I want to comment to on the idea of intergenerational living is this idea of generational trauma. So many of us, we live our lives and we do things because we hold on to problems that the people before us had. On some level, if you... if you can be in a household, obviously if there's abuse or something like that, that's generational trauma and you don't want to stay in that house. I get it. But on some level, if you as a child of someone who's been in generational trauma can break the cycle, then you have the ability to go back and show the other people how you broke the cycle. And you didn't just break it for yourself. You broke it for the whole family. You know what I mean? And I think that I think on some level, like your chromosomes change when you break cycles like that, because you no longer pass that generational trauma onto the next child, or at least not such a heavy burden of it. Sometimes you don't know until later in life, until you turn 50 and you go, oh, you know, why, why, why do I feel this level of shame? You start looking back on my mom felt that my grandma felt that my dad felt that you wonder how many generations back they felt this. Maybe that's the only reason I feel it now is because my parents felt it or my grandparents felt it. And, you know, there's something beautiful about coming to terms with generational trauma and then going back and talking to the people. that may have had it too, and maybe giving them an opportunity to change that. Just letting the dog in. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, buddy. Hey, Rocky. Is that a lab? No. No, I don't know what kind of dog he is. He's just a Bali dog. Ah, Bali dog. I want to have a look at his face. What's up, buddy? Yeah, he misses his mommy already. I bet. I bet. Sorry. Yeah. And for me, the idea used to be a little too esoteric about intergenerational trauma. But I started to come around to it when I stopped thinking about it in terms of energy and stuff, but more just habits. Right. So the trauma will somebody does trauma and they exhibit a certain response to it in terms of the behavior or habits or the way they talk to people. If they talk to their kids that way, their kids learn that from their parents, then the same thing happens. That's the way I look at it. I can get my head around what the result of such trauma would be. And you're absolutely right. It's like one of the hardest things to deal with as well because it's purely unconscious. And the only way to fight this stuff is to try to make it conscious. And even then it's really hard. So I have to, not that it was trauma based, but my dad was very like, let's say cheap. and uh didn't want to it was always like money counting like counting expenses and that's something I had to uh I've had to fight against like my whole life just yeah you have to be rational with money you can't waste it but you don't need to be as strict as uh as as my dad was you know yeah so yeah it's it's like an ongoing thing you just got to be conscious of it and make a intention to be different it's interesting like I think of uh the same patterns we have in our life, you know, if you look at the way a waterfall pours down a mountain and it creates like a, you know, a groove in the mountain, like that's sort of the similar patterns we have. You know what I mean? Like that waterfall has been pouring for generations. So that groove just cuts deeper and deeper and deeper. So if it's been pouring down that pathway, you know, how do you, how do you change that groove? You may not be able to change that groove, but the point is you can be aware of the patterns in your life by being out in nature and understanding how nature evolves. And I think that that, being aware of how nature evolves, will allow you to be aware of will allow you to be aware of how your nature unfolds. And that can lead you to conscious change, which is not easy. But the moment you become aware of something, now you're beginning to have the freedom to change it. And I think that that is, that's where it's at, man. It's just this level of awareness. If you divert the water flow just a little bit. Yeah. And then you make a new, better groove. Yeah. But it's a lot of work. Yep. A lot of conscious work. Oh, here's the thing I wanted to comment on before where you said one thing that when you lost your job, it made you make space for family and things like that. And I think that's beautiful, first of all, but that's like the key flashpoint. It's understanding we're going to die and we don't know when that is. Yeah. But it's likely we will live to be 80 plus years old. So how do you balance those two things? Right. Yeah. And that's, I think that if you can figure that out, you've won at life pretty much. Yeah. And I think that's what people are trying to do. I think that's where the fear comes in. Cause you want to people hustle, hustle, hustle, make as much money as they can so they can not work. know but what what if your time's up at 45 you know like my dad he died he died at like 58 you know just a few years away from retirement that's I think it's like yeah good no no I was that's it what got me on the same topic I was speaking to denise rue who was a death doula we were just talking about a death doula is like a person who will go and sit with people in convalescent homes or sometimes people will call them if they don't have family and they'll go and they'll just sit with them maybe the week before like hey this person's on their way out you know because you know you must hear a lot of secrets tons and so I was picking her brain I was like so what are they talking what are these people talking to you about how many uh murderers got away with it that you know yeah like what is you know what are they saying and I i asked her that's the exact one I think I'm like denise that's fascinating first off thanks for doing that but what what are they telling you when they're sitting there and she just she paused for a minute She's like, you know, I could tell that she held those conversations sacred in her heart and she didn't want to just start telling me all these things, but she was like, well, I'll tell you what they're not saying. They're not saying they wish they worked more hours. They're not talking about going to Costco or driving a Tesla. They ain't talking about any of that, George. You know, some of them are saying they wish they were better fathers or better mothers or better husbands or better children. They wish that they had more time in their relationships. They despise how they acted and put these material things before people they love. That's what a lot of them are talking about. And that has just stayed with me for so long. And it's been such a huge blessing in this transition that I'm in because I you know, what if we should be learning from the elders? Like I wanted to do a podcast where I brought people on called a gift to give and like people that were going to pass away and have them tell their, tell their stories to everybody else. Cause for me, when I heard that, that made me stop what I'm doing and be like, yeah, Yeah, what am I doing? Maybe I should be spending more time with my wife and my kid. Maybe I should know what my wife's favorite color is. Maybe I should know what my daughter's shoe size is. Maybe I should be the person buying her all. That stuff hit home. And then I started realizing, if I don't know this, how many people in my circle of friends know that? And I just started seeing... for the first time, like the scales ripped from my eyes and being like, man, I don't want to have these regrets that this death duel is telling me about. Like it just, for me, it was such a, I think it was the world talking to me or nature. I think I honestly feel like there's a force greater than me that allowed these things to happen in my life. You know what I mean? You think about losing a job or being fired as something that's this life transforming, horrible thing. But I see it as on some level, as an opportunity to become way better than I've ever been. And I think life like slapped me in the face. It's like, Hey dummy, what are you doing? Here's a death doula. You want to hear her? Okay. Here's your job. You want to do this or you want to do this? You know, how about you? How about you lose all this, this financial stuff, but you gain all this family stuff. Would you take that George? George, would you take that challenge? And I'm like, yeah, I wouldn't. I go, okay, well, we'll see. We're going to keep testing you. And I feel like my life has been a test ever since then. Like I'll give it all up and like, let's see, let's see you do it, you know? And it's like, okay, one more step, one more step. And it's scary. But at the same time, I feel like I've grown in ways that I never would before. And I'm so fortunate to have a partner that I can talk to this about, you know, and is, is willing to support me and help me and grow as different people and have long philosophical conversations about who we are and who we want our daughter to be and what school should she go to? And like, it's, I've had conversations now that I never would have had, and I want more people to do it. You know, not to be sad or anything like that or lose who they were, but I want more people to just take a chance and become the very best version of themselves. And a lot of times that looks like loss. It's very uncomfortable. So I want people to get uncomfortable. Yeah. Comfort is the way. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sort of dealing with similar themes as well because, I mean, I'm going to be 42 this year. Okay. And I've been, you know, I had a good career before and used the money and had the savings and everything. And now I'm sort of living – kind of like a nomad. I make some money, but it's not a lot of money. And I sometimes think about this too. I'm like, well, I love my daily life, but how sustainable is this? What do I do when I'm 65, 70, when they won't let me work anymore? um yeah so idea is just to figure out what's sustainable right yeah like what can you do that can actually sustain you until yeah you're not allowed to work or you can't or whatever yeah um so yeah so figuring that out assembling more pieces but that's my goal is to be able to do this as long as I want you know just make sure I have some more security for for the two of us maybe more if we have kids but at least the two of us for now yeah it's an interesting balance between security and freedom and it's hard to figure out because there's so much bullshit out there um and I got roped into it sometimes too when you start thinking you want to be more free you want to live on your own terms you want to have your own business what can I do and then there's all this stuff on social media people trying to sell you courses about yeah, I could, you know, I got the secret by my course for a freedom lifestyle. I had to build your own business and stuff like that. Yeah. There's a lot of that out there. A lot. Most of it. I've got my own opinions on what I think works and what doesn't. But yeah, it's, you have to sift through quite a bit to, to land on something that works for you morally. And you know, what's, what matches your skillset or maybe you need to learn new skills. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you got a, plug back into the matrix from time to time, you know, and maybe I think about that too. Like maybe going back into the world, but with a different mindset, it's sort of like going into a different world. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. It's, it's interesting to think about it. And yeah, it changes when we're, let's say the situation we're in. Um, and there's, for example, there's some stuff I would like to do, but I don't have the cash for it because they're larger investments. I don't have an extra $100,000 sitting around. So then I think, well, maybe I should go back in the matrix for a while and work for a couple of years. But it's different because now I have a goal. Now I'm going to work and I know that that's for something. So I think that changes the relationship to work and all the bullshit you have to deal with. But most people are not doing it purposefully. They're just looking at it. They're not even looking at it. They're just doing it because that's what they've fallen into. And they're just hanging on until they retire. But what is the money really for? Yeah. It's an illusion, I think. Yeah. It is. It's this thing that you think. It's this transactional device that you're going to. At the end of the day, go to the cage and turn it in for your freedom. Yeah. You know what I mean? I got it all. Can I have one freedom ticket, please? But they don't like the thing is corporations hate hearing this. I mean, it's like a, it's a, it's a career killer. Like imagine you go into a job interview. It's like, yeah, I just need like some cash for a year, 18 months. I'll work for you until I get that. And then I'm going to leave. We don't got a spot for you. You can't say that. Yeah. And I'm at the stage where I'm almost like ruined my career permanently in the corporate world, but let's see what happens. It's been too long. Maybe like the fractional. I've been seeing a lot of people working on fractional teams that go into startups or go into businesses, like someone that has your skill set and is able to go in as a mentor, part of a fractional team, and go in with a group of people, help this new startup or fledgling company get started, and then transition out of there. That seems to be a new thing that's emerging, these fractional positions. I think that you'd be phenomenal at that. always wanted to do project work but nobody I tried to sell this to all my previous employers but nobody nobody took it I'm like hey look you don't have to hire me for a whole year right uh just when you're busy the three to four months you're busy you know I need extra help I'll come in I'll do the project and then I'll leave and then you won't pay me for the other eight months you know yeah I'm really surprised no one took that offer I think they will I think as long as I've known you, Kevin, you're, you've been like, you're like four years ahead of everybody. So sometimes being really early looks a lot like being really wrong. Yeah. So it seems like, you know what I mean? It's true. Like if you think about it, like it's really true. I, I would continue to talk to them about that. Like, I think it's a phenomenal idea. And I've been on the phone with partners of firms trying to pitch this to them. They're like, oh, we never really considered that before. I'm like, yeah, it's a win-win, man. You don't have to pay me for eight months out of the year. I just come, do the work, and I leave. And I don't know. But a lot of these companies are still run by the old guard. They have to go to his boss that's No, we want someone where I can see their way to his life. Or I'll just overload somebody else for the busy time. You know, burn them out as long as they're here. That's their thinking. Yeah. Yeah, that's... It is, but it's changing, I think, you know, with remote work and yeah, yeah, it's slow. It's slow. I was taught, you know, I got an interesting one for you on the topic of workplace attitudes and behavior. This is a really interesting young lady called Sherry Reyes. And she has a company called Enthea. And what they are doing is they're providing, I think, just ketamine now. But they're working on other psychedelics to provide psychedelic therapy for people. and help people's healthcare plans. It's a, it's a, it's a, I guess she's already, they've, they have worked with Dr. Bronner who provides it for their employees now. And they had a really interesting discussion about the future of healthcare and how it could help production. But one of my questions I was talking to her about is, you know, one of the things about psychedelics is you realize that you're unhappy because of the place you're working at. What happens when you provide healthcare for people and they, they take the healthcare and they realize they don't want to work there anymore. that is a major concern yeah right yeah it's interesting that's probably why they don't offer it that's probably why my old company didn't let me coach the employees there there's probably a third of them would just quit and go do something else look this guy coach him this guy not this guy this guy this guy who already quit and came back once and like said he doesn't want to work more than eight months a year you want him coaching the staff yeah no yeah But if you think about it, there would probably be a way better way of production. I heard a good quote that said, employees treat their customer the way the board of directors treats the managers, or something along that line. If you start thinking about it from that angle, if people were happier or more aligned with the place they were working at, then they'd probably be more productive instead of Oh, not probably. Definitely. Definitely. Right. Definitely. Yeah. Like five times more productive. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. It's exponential. Yeah. Yeah. We'll figure it out, George. We'll figure it out. So you're moving to California. I just want to hear about this a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I am. I'm moving to California and, um, not sure I was gonna sell my home I think I might rent it you know but I've been working here um I think anytime you move And you know, this, like you have an opportunity to redefine who you are. The story you tell yourself is now ready for prime time and you're ready to tell a new audience who you are and being the age I am. I feel like it's a new chapter. Like I'm, I'm excited for it. And it's kind of starting from square one. You know, I'm going to move back and I'm going to live with my in-laws and not going to have the financial freedom that I had before. But my daughter's going to go to a phenomenal school. I went and I met with a school. We met with two different schools over there, one we liked and one we loved. And we're going to get into the one that we loved. She's going to be one of nine students in her fifth grade class. We looked at the campus and it has like these doors that like one, you know, like the barn doors, kind of barn, not the right word, but the doors slide open. So one whole, one whole wall opens up to the classroom. And they're talking about the way they do math by, Yeah, what kind of school is this? That sounds interesting. Oh, it's fascinating. It's called the Spring Hill School, and it's sort of like a socio-emotional learning where they incorporate your daily activities into the lessons. It's almost, you know, in my fantasy mind, I'm thinking about, like, young men and women sitting around Socrates asking questions and the teachers being like, who is this young genius here, and what skills do they have, you know? And they kind of grade on a continuum, but... the teachers that were, that I spoke to and the admissions lady that I spoke to in the tour we took, it's, it's so different than the way I went to school and so different than the way I've seen so many kids go to school. And it, it helps reinforce the idea that, man, this move that I'm making, it's not just about me. It's about family. It's about taking care of people that I love. And it's about learning how to take care of other people, man. And that's what's exciting to me. When you can learn to find more love and respect and excitement in what's coming up in your life than what you're leaving behind, Man, I think that's real growth, and that's how I see this trip coming up. In another part, you probably know this too, but for people that have lived in a house for a long time, like I've been in this house for 16 years, the amount of things you accumulate is mind-blowing. It's like all these things stick to you. For me, it's been books. I love books, and I had this phenomenal library of books. And it's been really difficult to get away and give away books. And my wife would be like, dude, why don't you give that book away? And I'm like, that's a first edition. That was one of the hardest things for me, too, to let go of for some reason. Yeah. Yeah. And for me, I think I figured out that everything that I had was tied to an idea or a feeling. And by letting those things go, I thought that I would let that memory go or I would let that feeling go. And some things still are. Like, I'm like, oh, this book was signed by that guy. I got it at this time. And I'm like... I've read it twice. Who cares? You know, or I have a piece of furniture that has been in my family for years. Like my great grandfather bought it, had it come around the horn of Africa. You know, it's his bookcase right behind me. And I'm like, am I going to really take this thing and ship it to California? It's going to cost me like five grand to ship it. Like everything I got from my grandpa is in my jeans. Like it's a cool story. It's a cool heirloom, but yeah, In the grand scheme of things, what am I going to do with it? And then that makes me start thinking, why am I holding on to all these old ideas that belong to my family? Do you think my grandma would care one bit? And that is part of the process of moving on, whether you're moving to a new place, moving in relationships, but coming to grips with why you're not letting go of stuff. that's a big part of becoming a better person, man. And this move has really helped me see that. It's really helped me see some of my flaws, some of my ideas that I mistrust and some of the places where I've been too hard on myself or where I'm not hard enough on myself. And I'm really trying to embrace all of them, man. And I think more people should try to get rid of all their stuff and move. yeah I had to unfortunately switch to an e-reader uh I'm still not I'm still not really used to it um I obviously way prefer having a book but the way I'm living it just doesn't make sense to even buy books yeah because I just yeah I don't have I can't take them with me you know yeah but yeah I do like there's nothing like I know holding a book there's just nothing like it yeah and for some reason with the e-readers it makes me sleepy in a way that books don't Yeah. Maybe my eyes get more tired. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But it's so cool about your daughter's school. Yeah, it's awesome. Education is something that's been very much on my mind lately because I kind of got back into it. Yeah. Into the old system of it. And so I get to see how much it fails and how what you're like, what the kind of school that your daughter is going to is if I ever have kids, like that would be priority number one is to either homeschool them or get a school like that. And there's a lot of them out there. The school she goes to here in Hawaii is called Mid-Pacific. Unbelievable. She's gone there since kindergarten. They work on the Reggio philosophy, which is like, again, a socio-emotional learning process. And there's no grades. It's like a continuum. So you can see where they... Here's a line from... like reading comprehension from here over to here. And on kindergarten, they're here, and then they're down this line. And you can see the progress on it. And when you start thinking about the way in which we grade people, like when you were little and you got a B and your kid, your friend Jason got a D, well, he was kind of cast as a dummy for the next four years because he kept getting Ds, even though he probably wasn't dumb. But if you're on the continuum, you know, maybe one year you're here on the continuum and then you're here on the continuum. It really measures the same way. I used to draw my daughter's height on the door. Sometimes she'd be way up here. Sometimes that's a way that they grade. You'll see your kid here, and then you'll see them way over here. The same way they would be if their height moves, so too does their knowledge move. The way education is changing right now, I think it's fascinating. It excites me for the leaders of tomorrow. They're doing this incredible group work where they sit down and they – They create things together in this group and different parts of them, or they're learning with the land. She was learning to make paper from trees here and the process of doing that and the way that the old Hawaiians did it and the way that people do it now. And here's the difference of it. And here's how it pollutes things. there's some really incredible teachers out there that have found a way to teach people or young kids how to be leaders instead of how to fit into a preconditioned mold for an obedient worker. Yeah. So it's exciting. about you know how high school graduation they often often the valedictorian makes a speech yeah the quote said that's nice but I also want to hear from the guy with the worst grade so I get both viewpoints yeah yeah that's a great point because it is it fails a lot of kids I mean I do one of my I have a couple of a couple of um jobs but one of them is tutoring college student american college students yeah on their essay writing and the stuff I see man you would not believe like they're already in university I mean usually first year but still yeah and it's not even not even an eighth grade level wow by our standards right right yeah so they just like they're just pushing kids through now yeah the grades don't matter there's always a college for somebody as long as you're willing to pay the fee yeah yeah And isn't that the case with even in the workplace? Like, here's a certification for you. You don't have to take the test. Just pay the fee, and we'll give you the certification. A lot of the job certifications are like that. Yeah, yeah. So it all becomes just a giant time waster if you look at it that way. When you have no merit, if you have no merit, it's just all everybody's just wasting time because, you know, the kids are going to get pushed through and the teachers got to show up and just perform their role. And there's no point to it. Yeah. Yeah. yeah it's and I got another I got another job teaching chinese it is a funny one yeah uh they're they're chinese students but they're doing a u.s curriculum because yeah and so it's a weird structure it's they're incorporated in the u.s but all the students are fully in china and all the teachers are remote too And you don't have to be a US citizen to work for them. But they are teaching US curriculum and AP courses to these Chinese students so that they can go to an American college. Wow. yeah and it's all online I mean the kids are probably just playing on their phone the whole time while they're talking you know it's just like again we're just going through them and I'm encouraged like I can't fail anybody I can't you know like be too harsh so yeah we're just everyone's just wasting time I'm going in there I'm doing my part they're doing their part and they get passed and they're going to go on to college in the u.s wow I don't take it. I think it's like hilarious in a way. And it's like, okay, this helps me solve a temporary money situation, but I find it quite, quite sad in another way. Yeah. You know, it's, it just echoes the same system over here. Like, you know, it's, it's kind of mind blowing to think that, what education is. The older I get, the more I think about education as lived experience. And I wish that in the United States, that they would allow people who have worked for say 20 years to have the equivalent of like a bachelor's degree or something like that. Like that should be something that's transferable Because you have such an influx of people that didn't go to school. Or maybe if you've worked 40 years, you have the equivalent of a master's degree. If you've worked at this place for 40 years in communication, you probably have a master's degree. And if you could get people in positions of authority to see this level of lived experience is similar to this degree. I think that you could have a lot of crossover and you could have a lot more alignment and you could have people moving into businesses and, and businesses getting better and fresher people. I think, I think there should be some sort of crossover there. Yeah. we should. Yeah. I'm really, I'm really happy that there are schools like the one your daughter's going to. There's one here in Bali too called the green school that I think is similar. They teach a lot of sustainable practices and nature, nature courses. And I think it's expensive, but it's, it sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. They, it's interesting. Like this, this school is expensive too. And so is one we're at now. And you know, it's, And I don't know if I had multiple kids that I'd be able to send my kid to these schools. It's interesting because it's fascinating to see people that have our second, third, fourth, or fifth generation private school. I'm like, wow. Some of the things that I see, I was talking to a, this is a funny story. When my daughter was going to kindergarten, I was the room parent. And part of the job of the room parent was to get the teachers a gift for Christmas. And I'm like, wait, we're paying like 20 grand in tuition. We're going to get them a gift? we're already paying money. Why don't we get him a gift? And they started laughing at me. They're like, George, you give the teachers a gift, you cheap knucklehead. I'm like, okay, fine, fine. Let's get him a gift. We're paying tons of money. Let's get him a gift. And so I was sitting around with some of the other parents, these couple other dads and, uh, I was like, well, you know what? We can go to Costco and we can get these spa finders for the teachers. They're dealing with kids all day. They probably use a spa a day. So why don't we all pitch in and we can get these spa gift certificates. They're $100 a piece, but we can get them for $80. And we can get five. We can get all the teachers one. Okay, great. And this one guy's like, sorry, George. Did you tell me that you can get gift certificates for $100 for $80? I go, yeah, man, there's tons of different kinds. You go to restaurants or the spa finder. Did you want to, did you not like, what's the problem? And he's like, no, no, I'm just making sure. Can I buy as many as I want? Can you tell me more about this Costco place? And the other parent breaks it and he's like, listen, Dave, Maybe if you didn't have a personal chef and a personal shopper, you would know about Costco and you wouldn't have to ask George about Costco. And he's like, are you serious? You can really get this? It turned into this super funny, just incredible conversation about this person had no idea about Costco. And I'm like, it just hit me. I am dealing with... With an entirely different level of wealth, you know, and that's a funny side of it, you know, but there's other sides of it, too. Like you begin to see the networks of people that have been there for like legacy students. Like there's these terms that like I didn't even know existed. Like this is a legacy family. What's a legacy family? A legacy family is someone whose grandparents graduated from this school. What? They're grandparents from the same school? And you can see these incredible bonds between these people. They're running businesses together. They have all these things together. And for me, it just all hit home like, oh, this is what it's like to be on the ground floor of a country on some level. These people have been here for generations. They know everything about that family. That's that weird vibe I get. Like, hey, who's this outsider? What are you doing? You know, like, but that was the first time in my life I really got to kind of pull back the curtain and see what generational wealth looked like and let in the door a little bit. Like I was allowed to peek in and say, hey, this is kind of interesting. But the level of education that those kids get is, man, it's not even fair. It's not even fair compared to some of the kids that go to public schools. Like, you know, and I'm so thankful that, so thankful on so many levels to get to see that and have my daughter be part of the program. Like, you know, I, it's embarrassing, but I'm thankful on some level, you know, it's crazy. It's, it's not like, if you think about starting like a race and you get to start at the, you get to start at the, almost the finish line or it's like being born on third base and telling everybody you hit a triple. yeah yeah I had an experience like that not in the context that you had it but I had this friend I used to be involved in the in the freemasons I'm not so involved anymore but um one of my lodge brothers uh like I was going through my divorce at the time and uh I was shortly after that I came I was talking about it and we were talking about this because he's also divorced and so he's sort of giving me advice and empathizing and he goes why don't we have lunch I was like yeah sure let's have lunch and he goes well meet me here I'm a member of this business club yeah um and he gives me the address like meet me here on friday uh at 12 30. okay great he's like just make sure you kind of you know like put pants on put uh make sure you have a button button down shirt I said all right no problem and I show up at this place Never heard of it before. It was in the Zurich Old Town, so the really nice part of town. And I forget the name of this club, but I go in there, and he had a meeting with somebody, so I'm waiting for him to be free, and I was looking around, and they had a restaurant there, and there was a cigar lounge kind of room, and they gave me a tour while I was waiting. They had a billiards table. They had all these fancy leather upholstered chairs with dark... red and brown flooring and like kind of a masculine vibe. That's mostly men there. And then, uh, so we have lunch eventually and I'm not trying to sponge off this guy. So after lunch I was like, okay, well let's like, let's split the bill. I'll I'm happy to go, go pay it. And he's like, no, no, no, you don't pay here. I was like, what do you mean you don't pay here? He's like, no, you pay one membership per year and everything's included. So like all he goes there all the time for food, all cigars, all the facilities, everything else, free access for $17,000 a year. And then I started looking it up and it's this elite business club. And he said it took him years to get in. And you can't even apply unless you employ over a thousand people. Wow. Yeah. And he's like, I had to network my ass off to get in here. It took forever. Wow. So, yeah, there are there are groups like that. And then we don't hear about them. They keep out of the press, you know, and these are the guys that who knows what they're, you know, they're probably building economies behind the scenes and manipulating things or whatever. But, yeah, it's like a secret organization almost. Like you said, it revealed the curve. Like, oh, wow, there's this whole rich people society that I never hear about, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you only catch a glimpse of the dimension – Interdimensionality is real. There's people right now living in different dimensions. That club you went to, that exists in a different dimension than you exist in now. It exists in a different dimension than I have. As a UPS driver, I've delivered to some similar clubs, like, what is this place? And they're like, it's not for you. Okay. Whatever that means, it's not for me. It's really nice in here, but it's not for me. Thanks, lady. But it's a different dimension. And if you just think about... interdimensional travel. Like people look at that as like, this guy's a weirdo, interdimensional travel, but you go, go to one of these clubs and then go live in a poor part of town. That's a different dimension. You see the world differently. You exist in the world differently and you speak in a different language, even though it's the same language, the different dimension of language. Like, you know, it takes a while to wrap your head around that. But once you do, you know, you're like, I get it. I get it. There's different dimensions that people live in and it's happening all around us simultaneously. You probably experience time differently if you live a life like that, right? Yeah. It's a great place that people watch. If you're ever in Zurich, Old Town, you go to those old, the section with the old hotels. And I did that once. I sat near one for like a half an hour one day. And you see these families that they basically, they live out of these boutique hotels with the whole family and probably some lavish penthouse apartment at the top that they pay $10,000 a night for or something. And you see how they live and their car comes and they take their kids shopping and everybody's wearing nice clothes and stuff. I'm like, yeah, that is such a different life. Yeah. And I think at that, I mean, it's difficult for that group of people to let anybody in because People on the bottom won't understand that. Like, what do you have in common with someone that has generational wealth? You can talk about things, but on some level, the person below gets a little angry. I mean, I have so much and I have none. Like, that relationship is not going to work. It doesn't work because for them, like a million dollars might be nothing. And for you or me, it would change our lives. A lifetime of work, you know? Yeah. like so there's always that dynamic oh give me some of your wealth and they're like what off you know yeah you peon get out of here you dummy you're not smart enough to have it that's why they only associate with amongst themselves I understand why yeah yeah yeah i You know what a weird and interesting exercise to do is think about some of the wealthiest people. Maybe you're sitting there and you see some people and you're like, man, these people live in a different world. And then think about yourself and some of the poorest countries you've been to. And now you're the wealthiest person. So it allows you to have some empathy and be like, oh, I'm the – I always do that to myself. As soon as I start to find myself thinking bad about people that have wealth more, so I guess I tell them some silly story, I start thinking like, that's me. I'm the person with all the wealth. It's just that the person that's – Think about someone that lives in India, like one of the untouchables or something like that. Like you are here. Like Bali's pretty third world, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like I feel like that here. And there's a problem. There's, there's a gulf. Yeah. Like I can't really make friends in a real way with the locals. Right. And I don't make tons of money, but I make a lot more than your average person. Sure. Sure. They only make like $200 a month. A lot of $300. Yeah. Yeah. You're the wealthy person at the private club over there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it helps to empathize. That's why the expats kind of like hang out because there's that socioeconomic gap. And I've tried before and it just always seems like, not that they're begging me for stuff, but I always feel like there's this obligation to pay for everything or they'll try to find ways to do stuff for me that I might pay for. And it's still more of like a service-oriented relationship. It's just a little bit... awkward you know yeah and all of a sudden here's evidence for a caste system you know like these people will there's no social mobility all of a sudden the noble truth that you can rise to any level is revealed to you no you can't and if you're born in this level you're probably gonna stay at this level you know and that that on some level once you come to terms with that like I think most people should I think that in the united states there's an incredible caste system it is possible to have social mobility, but the majority of people never rise above the caste that they were born into. I'm not saying, obviously it happens. I mean, people do it, but a lot of it is mythological in some ways. But I think that one way to do it is to provide your child with a level of education so that she can be plugged into, or he, she, or he can be plugged into that network at a young age. Yeah. You're doing it. Yeah. That's it. And that means that you sacrifice, you know, more than likely. Yeah. So that's the most important. That's probably one of the most important investments you could make. I think for your kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I would do the same thing as you. I'd try to find every way possible to get my kid in school like that and rub elbows with people that have that perspective because they look at things completely differently. We had a really cool interview with this new school and the admissions officer was telling us, oh, we had an engineer from Boeing come down and take the students to, you know, back to the factory. And they taught about engineering. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You had an executive from Boeing fly down here and then take the kids to like Boeing. Like, yeah, like, okay, just checking. Wow. You know, it's like, wow. Like that's, you're learning some, you're getting some inspiration to be an engineer there. You know what I mean? And you and I know from where we've lived that a lot of the times it's not what you know, it's who you know. How do you get that connection? How do you get that job? Like, I'm plenty smart. Just give me the interview. Oh, sorry. Can't get you the interview. But I'll get this other guy whose dad's part of the group. He'll get the interview, even if you're smarter than him. It doesn't matter. I think you can do it if you're fired up. But you have to be single-mindedly about networking. And you have to have good social skills. And get lucky. And you have to be well-presented. And you've got to get lucky. But start joining a rotary club, joining these clubs where they hang out. and and just being around I think you can get in there but you have to be super motivated you do it's a full-time job the network yeah yeah like this guy said who got in the club he said he had to network constantly just to get invited yeah yeah and he was already well off you know he already had those businesses with a thousand employees yeah it never ends man yeah there's always levels yeah Like they say, it's turtles all the way down. It's ladders all the way up. It's another ladder. Yeah, it's so true, man. It's so true. Epic. Kevin, I love talking to you, man. This is super fun. We got to do it more often and we should get back to bringing some groups in here, but I got a little dinner cooking and today I always feel like I get to walk away. Yeah, man. I always feel like I get to walk away a little bit more informed, man. And I admire what you're doing. I admire the freedom and I admire the thought process and I love bouncing ideas off you, man. So thank you very much for your time today, man. I appreciate it. Still figuring it out. Like we all are. Yeah. Where can people find you, man? What do you got coming up? I don't know. I've pretty much quit most social media because I don't like it, but I'm still on LinkedIn. I have something I'm working on, but I don't want to talk about it because A, I'm embarrassed, and B, I don't want to jinx it. If it comes up, I will tell you, but right now it's very early days. I'm around LinkedIn. I'll respond to DMs or whatever, but I don't post much anymore. All right. Well, fantastic. Okay. Have a beautiful day, man. Talk to you soon. Okay. You too. Okay. Bye.