Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life Podcast. I hope everybody is having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining. I hope the birds are singing. I hope the wind is at your back. Some people seek answers. Alexandra Artsoglu seeks the right questions, the ones that crack open perception, dissolve old narratives and invite true transformation. Armed with a background in psychology, Alexandra quickly realized that understanding the mind wasn't enough. The real magic lay in the lived experience, the felt sense of becoming. Since twenty seventeen, she's been deep in the work of integration, not just of ideas, but of self. blending psychology, embodiment practices, and the cutting edge of psychedelic exploration to bridge the gap between knowledge and knowing. Her philosophy, self-actualization isn't a peak to be reached, it's a fluid, ever-unfolding process of stepping into deeper alignment. For those who feel the pull, who know there's more, but haven't quite found the map, Alexandra offers a rare kind of guidance, one that doesn't just prepare you for transformation, but helps you live it. Through personalized coaching, integration support, and microdosing guidance, she helps others navigate the delicate dance between surrender and intention. between insight and embodiment. Because the real journey isn't about finding something outside of yourself. It's about remembering, reclaiming and becoming what was always there. So if you're ready to stop searching and start integrating, welcome to this conversation. Welcome to the Alex experience. Alexandra, how are you? Hi, that was so beautiful. Thank you so much. I'm really good. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you very much. I'm so excited you're here. And I gave a little bit of a background to the audience that are listening. And you have got some exciting new stuff. But I thought we'd just maybe kind of flesh out the background a little bit more. You have been traveling and talking to so many people. Maybe you can give us a little bit of a background and some of the journey. Yeah. So, oh, gosh. As you said, two thousand seventeen was when I graduated with my bachelor's in psychology. And I was like, I was twenty one and I thought, I have no idea what I want to do. I don't know if I want to help others. I don't know if I can. I don't think I've learned enough in order to step into helping others. I don't even know who I am. I don't know how to help myself. I don't know what's the point of it all. So I kind of started there. And I thought that, you know, at this stage, I better answer some of those big questions. Like, what's the point? Who am I? How do I unfuck myself? Right. You know, how can I support someone else if I'm not sure who I am and what I want and all of those things? So it started with meditation. Because meditation, I had an experience that changed the course of my life. I realized I'm not just my body. I'm not just what I see in the mirror. I'm consciousness residing inside, like within my body. So the body is just, it's a temple, it's a vehicle. It takes me places, but it's not all there is. And then I've also felt present for the first time in my life as if I'm alive now. now and that's all there is. I forgot what thoughts were. What was I even thinking? Like, it's all here. It's all now. And that kind of took me to exploring meditation, which accidentally almost led to yoga. And then I learned that if I teach yoga, I get more of the benefits of yoga. So then I started teaching yoga because I was so focused for like showing it to other people and explaining it that I was feeling almost stoned, as if I had smoked a joint. And after yoga classes, I would feel like, oh my gosh, I'm just so present. I'm so relaxed. I'm just so chill, as if. And one thing led to the other. I feel like everyone who's seeking more finds their way into psychedelics in one way or another. And they've had the hypothesis that there must be more to life than what we see as examples around us. I feel like there's an itch I'm unable to scratch. And when I tried psychedelics, it was like, yep, I knew it. My hypothesis is confirmed. So then, yeah, I just kept seeking and seeking for years until at some point after a lot of personal development work and taking different courses and trainings and I would always travel for a reason, whether that was for a gathering or a conference or for like an immersive workshop. I've done a few around limiting beliefs and how to be happy. Like that was kind of the point. If I'm not happy, then what's the point? And at some point I was like, I think I'm pretty good. Like I'm enjoying my life. I'm in a happy marriage. I'm getting healthier and healthier. I have a vision for the future. Maybe I can support other people now. So then I started coaching. Then I thought, I realized that many people have trauma from the past that is holding them back so they cannot move forward even though they say they want to move forward. So then I thought I better get trauma informed. So I did compassion and inquiry training. Gabor Maté's approach which was absolutely life-changing both professionally and personally and I also was certified as a psychedelic integration coach so kind of all things combined at some point I realized that it's not the experiences themselves it's actually what do you do in the between it's who you wake up as are you excited do you have purpose do you do you go to sleep with gratitude and waking up kind of not being able to wait for the day to start. If not, we can integrate. And there's ways to do it. But it's like this abstract term that many people don't even know what integration is. And I would love to speak more about that today. But yeah, I could say so much. So please shower me with comments and questions. It is. I just wanted everyone to see and like get a glimpse of who you are and what you've been doing. Like you have been doing a lot of traveling. Like every time I check in with you, you're like, oh, I'm hanging out with Gabriel Mate over here. I'll just talk to Rick Doblin. Like you're sitting with so many people and learning so much. What is that like? What is that like? How do you do that? And what is it like doing that? Yeah, I'm in Cyprus right now, which is strange. I didn't expect to be here. When you messaged me with some dates, I was like, oh, I'll be in Cyprus. I don't know about the Wi-Fi, but let's hope it's going to work. So I used to say traveling before we get too comfortable, before we stop learning. So to me, like it started with I'm originally from Greece and I it felt like and I'm from a small town. So I'm not from a bigger city. I'm not from Athens. So it felt as if there's a lot of um narrow-mindedness to be honest around people and generally around those who who were in my city and it felt as if there's greatness inside us I don't know I just gotta get out there into the world and immerse myself in something I felt like I am the experienced type not so much the studying the thing to understand it more about I will understand it once I try it on And everything I teach and coach on comes from experience. I've practiced it myself. It worked. And that's why I want to share it. So that's why my business is called the Alex experience. Everything is embodied, I feel. And otherwise I wouldn't be teaching it. And yeah, I just, one thing left to another, I would stay in places for long enough. until my visa expired, as long as I could in order to understand the culture. If I could learn the language, I would hang out with the locals, but always get involved with something. And whether that was like yoga classes or attend some, again, gathering or workshop or volunteer in a conference. Like it was in Australia last year, I was volunteering in embodying psychedelia. I come to the US for something. There's so many like nice conferences, like MAP, Psychedelic Sciences coming up again in June. So there was always a reason and then I would go. But I felt like very early in my journey, I realized that, A lot of what I think I know is either cultural beliefs or my parents' beliefs. So it was like, what is even me or mine? Like, do I really want that? Or did my mom brainwash me to want it because she wanted it? And we spend a lot of time together. So it was a lot of unlearning. I remember I was in Mexico when I had that realization. I was, again, like, twenty-two. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm literally unlearning. And like shedding layer. Is this mine? That's not mine. That's not mine. That maybe I agree with. So I will keep that whether it's mine or not. So it feels like and I made this post once, like the first stage of healing is unlearning. Get rid of everything. And then from there. So what I wanted to do was like, let me do as much personal development as I can early on so that I can build my life off of that. And then I realized that, oh, we never arrive. Like we constantly arrive and never arrive. So it's like an ever becoming, an ever shedding of what's not ours and ever becoming what is really us. And that is kind of the journey. So it never ends. So I'm still on it and I will probably forever be on it because I got nothing better to do. I love it. It's such an interesting thought to think about unlearning. Most people spend their whole life, I got to learn this. I want to learn that. Here's what I'm learning. I'm learning this. I'm taking this class. I'm doing this. But the concept of unlearning, like that's a whole nother ballgame. And I really think that that's got to be partial to integration on some level. What is the relationship between unlearning and integration? Yeah. Well, it depends. Integration can also be very personalized to people. So it depends on what they're going through, if it's more unlearning or learning. To me, integration, and I looked up the word, essentially means coming into wholeness. And Gabor Mate, when he, module one of Compassion Inquiry, he was like, what is healing? He started with that. And healing comes coming into wholeness, like making something whole again. And Gabor asks, so why is it that people are not whole? Like, why is it that we need to heal? And that's where childhood trauma comes and we get disconnected from ourselves. So the essence of trauma is that we got disconnected from ourselves. So healing is to reconnect with ourselves, to see ourselves, so that we don't need other people to see us, finally. So that is kind of the essence. So I feel like integration and healing, in a way, are synonyms. Hmm. So it depends on what someone, the process that they're on and what healing means for them at that moment. We always meet people and ourselves where we're at. And we're always healing if we are on this journey of living consciously. So we're always dealing with something. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I'm curious to get your thoughts on that. Because you have traveled so much and because you've taken some giant leaps to go out and see the world in a way that a lot of people haven't, maybe for whatever reason they've been unable to, have you noticed some similarities and differences when helping or volunteering or coaching in different local environments in different parts of the planet? Well, interestingly enough, So many people that come to me are well-traveled. So that is one. Another thing, there's definitely cultural differences. Like I have spent some time in Asia, but not as much as I have spent in Europe or South America, for example. So I wouldn't be able to speak too much on that. There's definitely... So it's very interesting that you asked me that because I feel very international. Yeah. Like in Greece, I feel like a foreigner. I feel like the odd one out. And often, and because my whole work is in English, for instance, when people ask me questions like, what is integration in Greek? And I'm like, I have no idea how to explain this in Greek. So because I feel like I feel like if I had a passport that said super international or like global citizen or something, that would resonate more because I don't identify too much with any... Particular. I mean, places that I've lived more, of course, I understand more. Like a lot of my clients are based in the UK at the moment. And I've lived in the UK for three and a half years. I've studied there. It was my second home away from home. I have a certain familiarity effect. Then Colombia, I spent a lot of time there. It's probably one of my favorite countries, if not my favorite country in the world. So, you know, it depends on who I'm interacting with. Right. I think it's a good segue into a little bit more deeper understanding of integration. Maybe we could talk about what you learned integration was, and then you can move into maybe how you have begun to find a way to create these new techniques in your style of integration. Yeah. So I've always asked after psychedelic experiences, how can we make this last? Like this question is what informed a lot of my journey. and and then when I realized that that's a thing I was like I want to what the reason if there are many reasons why I wanted I wanted to be trained as a psychedelic coach the biggest one being because I think without psychedelics often we never get it we can be years in therapy years in coaching years in practicing yoga but then there's never this point where it clicks And often during psychedelic ceremonies, it does click and something is no longer a cognitive understanding, but it's an embodied knowing. It's like, oh, I get it now. It's like the red pill, blue pill kind of situation. I see it now. The world is not the same. And for that, I wanted to be in this field. Among many reasons, I believe in psychedelics for so many things. But anyway, and then I've always had this question of like, how can we make this last? Because ideally, we don't want to rely on anything outside of ourselves to have this experience of being so open, having clarity, having all those insights, feeling as if what I see now, including my future and myself is more real than real. and to me has always been difficult to get access to psychedelics my friends were not into it my boyfriends weren't into it it felt as if I need to speak to someone that is a bit of a dodgy person you know it felt like I don't want to go through this process yeah so um so then I did my training and I got some frameworks which I definitely refer back to and it wasn't until I pissed it to I started piecing it all together around september of when I once again in I also attended some workshops that I've had on my bucket list for years like joe dispenza um which absolutely saved my relationship and I say manifesting abundance that I didn't even know was possible before I speak about that in my classes so much, absolutely transformational work. Then Tony Robbins. Then I went to Argentina for a conference. Then I went to US for a conference. Then I went to Romania to meet Gabor Mate for Compassion Inquiry Conference. So it was like this mini hero's journey in twenty twenty four. And then I realized once again, it was like, oh, how can I make this last? Because now I'm learning, I'm attending all these things. It's not just psychedelics that we need to integrate. It's anything worth remembering. anything that has the potential to change our lives and we want it to change our lives. So then I thought that, but then I reflected on, hey, my life has actually been getting better and better and I have been doing things. So it wasn't just psychedelics and it was a lot of the habits that I've had on the last few years. Consistency, a lot of the connections, I have better relationships, more aligned with who I wanna be. So it's like practicing a few things long term. Then the mindset shifts. It's like, oh, I'm starting to identify as a person that is capable of helping others transfer like taking the psychedelic industry to the next level like playing my part obviously I don't want to be arrogant but I'm like I believe in my passion in my training in in my experience in contributing to something bigger than myself And before that wasn't always the case. So there was definitely like an identity upgrade that I went through. So I kind of started piecing things together and realizing integration is not just meditation and journaling and having a few sessions to unpack the experience that we often do, like what happened during the experience? How can we translate that into action? But it's like, what happens after the afterglow? What happens months after the experience? Do you remember the ceremony? Do you remember that connection with yourself that you tapped into? To me, that's integration. It's long term. It's the opposite of quick fix. It takes community. There's been studies around that. If we look at the indigenous way of living, they're always living in community. Their life is integration. So we can't... And we're constantly trying to figure things out on our own. We're constantly... We constantly want to do more things that... than we can realistically schedule in a day. So it's like, hey, why are we even trying to figure it out on our own? Like it does take community. So that was like, okay, let's kind of create a different model of integration that's more long-term community driven. And I've started piecing also elements from my different teachers and mentors, my personal coaches, things that have really helped my life into lectures that can brainwash people into believing in themselves believing in their potential being patient with healing continuing to put in the daily actions that get them to where they want to go because often we think what we do every day doesn't matter but three years down the line if we're still stuck it's because we haven't changed anything in the last three years and if we had changed a few small actions we would have been in a whole different trajectory of life So yeah, does that answer the question at all? Yeah, that's a beautiful answer. And that's exactly why I wanted to talk to you. It seems that you've definitely gone and studied and gotten all these different pieces of the puzzle. And for me, I'm like, oh, look, Alexander's putting this whole puzzle together. So often you talk to people, oh, I went to this retreat and I had some integration. Integration is so important. But it seems to me the majority of people are talking about like the McDonald's of transformation. Like I'm going to have integration for a day or two. I'm going to get that, and then I'll be good. No, you won't. You're not going to get anything from that. I mean, you might get a little bit, but the truth is integration could be synonymous with doing the work or coming down from the mountaintop. It's a lifetime gig once you get that figured out. You seem to be one of the first people in the new wave. It's like integration isn't a weekend. It's not a month. It's a whole period of time. Maybe you could speak more on that. Yeah, that's why I want to – Yeah, that's why I'm so passionate about this, because I don't think not everyone, not enough people are speaking about this enough. And it's like, what's the point of a breakthrough if you're left hanging in that open, expansive state right after? When you most need support, holding someone to carry you through that and help, because often the gap between our life the life that we left before we entered into the ceremony space before we had a psychedelic journey is very different than you know you you leave the ceremony space and and you have often I I have one-to-ones with clients where they have clarity about what steps to take next and others like I'm just thinking to some of my clients now it's like I really tapped into who I really am, like my true self. And one of my clients said, you know, and she was funny and sassy. And I like that version of me. And I'm not like that in daily life. And then when we return to the life that we had before, it feels like our life is designed to keep us in the old self. The predictors of who we are are the environment and the people. we do become the five percent of people the five people that we hang out with as they say there's so many sayings around that like show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are so because we as gabor puts it the essence of trauma is that we got disconnected from ourselves. So we live lives that are largely disconnected, which is why we end up seeking psychedelics for healing or whichever other modality. We want to wake up. We want to break free, break out of the matrix, and we want liberation. We want to have fun. We want to be happy because we weren't before. So our lives are pretty much disconnected, right? And then we go into a psychedelic space and then we come back to the structure that we've had while we were disconnected. And many of our relationships don't serve us anymore. Maybe the job that we do doesn't serve us, the work environment, our habits. But because the environment is really a big force, a very powerful force, it's really easy to be dragged back into that. It's... In Atomic Habits, for instance, James Clear talks a lot about that. like how to break out of habits that no longer serve us and into those that do. But that also starts with identity because I mean, I can't get deeper or not into this. Often I speak about this. So like habits inform who we are and who we are informs our habits. So it's kind of like a vicious loop and it's like, well, how do we get out of the loop? Because it's an identity, a system of beliefs behind the habits, behind the actions that we take. If I don't work out, it's because I don't believe I'm a fit person or that I can never be a fit person. And if I wanna be that, I need to start going to the gym. And when I do, it's gonna feel out of character. Like me, the lazy person who never works out and has always been bullied for being chubby or whatever is gonna go to the gym, yes. So it's gonna feel out of character really. But then the more we do it consistently enough, it takes two to eight months to form new habits, research says, depends on the person and the intention. But the more we do it, we collect evidence that, hey, I've literally went to the gym three times a week for two months. I guess maybe I can do that now. And then over time, I guess I'm the kind of person who works out now. So all of these things are really important when we're integrating. Because maybe we tapped into who we want to be during this psychedelic experience, but do we feed that and reinforce that when we walk out? because it might feel too far out and energy is so important. So in psychedelic spaces, we are in a high energy state. We can change our lives when we're in a high energy state. But then what happens? We come back and we contract. We're like, oh, well, I was high. I said, but you know, you know how I am. So then we just go back and then it's really important to keep that energy high. Tony Robbins in the workshops have you jump up and down all the time. We're like high five everyone around you. But also being around people that are high on energy can elevate you. That's why group settings are great. That's why integration happens in a group. But people can also self organize. And often being around the people that we've shared the psychedelic experience with, feels aligned because they were there, they went through the experience together. So if you can continue meeting up and helping each other with whatever goals and identity you were wanting to engrave, the energy of the group elevates the individual. So continuing to be on a high energy state is really important. Continuing to be in the momentum. Without momentum, we can't take action. And it's really difficult to generate that momentum on our own. If it dies out, it dies out. Psychedelic experiences create momentum. But if we don't take massive action, if we don't schedule something to do later when we're not going to have the momentum, it's really hard to pick that up. And it's really hard to change. So there's all these little things like being on a high energy state, like regenerating momentum, taking action while you're in the momentum, how your habits inform your identity and vice versa. Not enough people speak about that. I see a lot of like retreats and individuals organizing beautiful ceremonies. And it's like, yeah, but what happens after? Of course, gaining awareness is one thing. It's wonderful. You probably cannot forget that. But if it doesn't change your behavior, What's the point? You had a cool experience, but then what's the point? So that's why I'm really passionate about that. Yeah, it's a great answer. What role does psychedelics play long-term? We talk about raising energy, finding community, working towards becoming a better version of yourself. Is psychedelics, in your opinion or maybe in your methods, something that people go to on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis? Is there any kind of basis? How do you continue to use psychedelics in these altered states to keep that momentum going? that's a really good question and I think I think so many people will have different answers while I was in uh during my psychedelic coach training we went to costa rica and with for the experiential part of the training and with many of my course mates we were discussing that and we were talking talking about creating a hedonic calendar of like so people can do that for their own practice or with their coach I mean it's often good to have support with that because some might over exaggerate their need to take psilocybin more often than necessary I think it really depends on the intentions that some people that it depends so for example I know I know people who really have a lot of healing to do either because they have gone through, they've been through serious mental health issues and they're coming out of them and there's been decades of living with depression, for instance. Sometimes it's even multi-generational trauma that people feel like I'm just caring a lot and I need to heal it and clean that out. I think like trusting your gut is really important. If not, again, working, there's so many beautiful psychedelic professionals these days. So I wouldn't be able to give any schedule that applies to everybody. For example, MDMA definitely needs to be limited to four times a year, once in three months, because otherwise the effects diminish. They're never the same again. I wouldn't want to mess with that. I wouldn't want to have an MDMA journey and not be in its full spectrum as great as it could be. So maximum once in three months if not less personally I would do it maybe once a year or half a year it depends it's for example mdma is beautiful for healing relationships I think couples would massively benefit and I definitely have from having like a Even DIY, especially if you're experienced with the medicine before, just sit at home and talk for eight hours with your partner and it can be a really beautiful experience. Also with relationship to oneself, enhancing self-love and so on. But it always depends on what someone is looking to address or heal or what do they want more of if someone wants more. A vision for the future that gets them out of bed in the morning. Maybe LSD would be a beautiful medicine for that because it gets to help us dream and it creates a lot of energy. Mushrooms can be a bit more therapeutic, very grounding. Someone can work with their body as well if there's trauma stuck in the body. Oh, Cesar is here. Hey. Shout out to Cesar. Oh, it's not Caesar. I call it in Spanish pronunciation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same, same. So, yeah, it depends. You know, Alexandra. Yeah. No, go for it. sometimes psychedelic experiences can be really shattering or boundary dissolving. And sometimes people can get into trouble. I know I have, like I've been in some deep stuff before and you just got to kind of sit with it, but I've never had to work with somebody the way in which you do. Like sometimes, I guess this could be considered harm reduction or maybe I'm just purely curious. Like, have you ever been in relationship with somebody? You're working with them and like, oh, you get into some uncharted territories. First off, how does that feel? And what do you do as someone who's supporting that person? Yeah, so preparation to begin with. I don't facilitate, so everything I do is legal. That's why I'm also very loud and proud because I help. I prepare people to go into ceremony, ideally months in advance. And even though many people reach out like two days before the ceremony. Very common, I understand. And then help them integrate to make the effects last, to understand the experience. So if it's a challenging experience, it's probably there's trauma there that hadn't been processed before. So we would work with that unless it is undiagnosed mental health issues. That's why preparation is often like we have intake forms. And one of the questions is, have you had any of the following happen to you? And there's a few traumatic events. And if so, have you dealt with that and how and to what extent does it still affect your life today so then you know if someone is ready for a higher dose ceremony or not maybe you want to start without psychedelics maybe you want to start with micro dosing micro dosing this beautiful very safe way to enter this this world then it could also be with hypnotherapy with breath work, there's different modalities that can get one in an altered state almost in a trance without the full blown psychedelic experience, which is always the most extreme. And I understand that many people are very excited to have the psychedelic experience and they have no idea that this would happen. A lot of shadow would come up. I've had personally, one ayahuasca experience that was really, really dark, but then I trusted the medicine and I trusted my titus, the shamans in Colombia and I continued and then it became beautiful. So I always emphasize like learning how to hold yourself is really important or coming back to the breath. That's why meditation can be really good. Parts work can be really good. Understanding where you are and where the part is, that the thing that is happening can happen and it's allowed to happen, but it's not all that you are and you can take it. There's no greater power than our ability to hold their own pain. I think we can hold all of it and educating someone on that and working with someone on their traumatic experiences before the psychedelic experience can be beautiful. I've had a client like that, that she's had a lot happen to her as a child. And I wasn't the first point of contact. She had worked with various therapists before and then she needed to prepare for an ayahuasca ceremony. And we sat with darkness, we sat with people that harmed her in the past, then she could do it. So I was also confident that she will be able to do it. And she had a beautiful ayahuasca ceremony. She forgave the person that harmed her. Preparation is beautiful. I had a client once tell me, you know what I realized? Best preparation for ayahuasca is two years in therapy. Meditation also is. So it's like any modality that helps one get to know themselves, get to know their demons, their light, their shadow, and understand that I am the observer, not all of that. and then be able to hold oneself during the experience. Yeah, I like that. The idea of the observer, that is a really interesting one, right? When you begin to think like, okay, I am George's awareness, or I am this, or you start seeing not only yourself in a different way, but you start seeing these possibilities that might be a course you can chart. Maybe you could speak a little bit more about this observer effect and how it interacts in integration. Yeah, we do a lot on that. That's my favorite work. There's something that Gabor Maté said once that really resonated with me. And he was talking about an emotion, say when we're angry and anger takes over. And after we calm down for a bit, we can reflect on that there's anger, there it is, and here I am. So there it is, not here I am again, but there's that separation of I am here and there's emotion happening within me. So it's a process like mental health issues, like disorders are a process happening within us. And often we make the mistake of identifying I have ADHD. I am depressed. Instead of it's a process that's happening, it has a good reason why it's happening. And the more we work on things with compassion and get to know our childhood and how things affected us, we can understand why these things showed up. They didn't show up out of nowhere. We're not damaged goods. There's nothing wrong with us. They have a very good reason to show up. So in integration, often I guide people in meditations. Joe Dispenza inspired meditations, to be honest. Again, what changed my life, I share. Otherwise, I'm going to pop. I love sharing what worked. And we help people understand, first of all, a good way is to start with, say, feel the seat that you're sitting on and feel your feet on the ground and kind of ground this way. Can you feel your heart beating? Can you feel your breath somewhere in your body? Can you feel the movement? And then from there, we might take people on a journey. Again, it depends. I often curate the meditation based on the client's intentions and what they're bringing in the session. And if they're integrating something really positive, I help them make more of that and normalize that in their body so that they are in that state on the daily. That is integration. to be in that space less than you are on the space that you no longer want to be in, the disconnected space, to spend more time connected. So if we practice, when we practice during integration sessions to be in self, to be the observer, And to understand that, hey, the thoughts, the emotions, everything that's coming up is not me. It's something that's coming up. But it also will pass. There's nothing that stays. Everything in life is change. Then they also get used to that, that, oh, when this happens, when my eyes are open and I'm dealing with life, That disassociation can happen of I am not this emotion or I am not whatever is going on. I'm the observer. Microdosing can also really help with that. And microdosing is a really good tool for integration for those that are cold, especially if someone had a psilocybin ceremony, they can microdose with psilocybin or an LSD ceremony, microdosing with LSD. And then that bridges the gap between the ceremony and ordinary life, let's say. And it's also easy to tap into the fact that you're just the observer. And like these people are fighting at work but I don't have to get involved. And I understand both of their perspectives actually, but here I am and there they are. And I'm not like interweaved into this other experience. I'm still like sitting in the seat of my awareness, being in self, as we would say in internal family systems. I love it. It gets so deep because we talk about integration seems to be a word that talks about weaving, but then we also talk about, you know, Like I am not this. It's interesting that kind of delicate dance between separating and integrating. It's like, okay, I'm seeing it different. Let's get back in there and move around with it a little bit. It's kind of a tricky concept to understand though, isn't it? Oh, for sure. For sure. And it's all a practice really. And it doesn't have to be perfect and we don't have to be fully integrated. And I don't think it goes from like zero integrated to a hundred percent. It's always a dance between and like we fall off and then that's what reminds us that we have fallen off. So then we get back up and do it, do it again. So it's just a dance. It's just living more consciously and One, realizing that I have choice over everything, like my perceptions, my emotions, my thoughts. I don't have choice over what others will do and how others behave and natural disasters and the economy. I don't have power over those things, but I have power over my internal, my inner world. So the more we become conscious of that, as Dispenza says, become so conscious that you get unconscious less and less. That's the point of meditation to become familiar with, with the thoughts that show up, with the emotions that show up, So the more we practice that, the more we can bring it into life. And the more experiences we have being conscious and less being unconscious, then we are working on being the creator of our lives, the ones that shape our destinies. And that is kind of the path of self-actualization to me. Like we are actually... we're like hey this is my life often we understand that during psychedelic experiences I don't have to do anything I don't have to be anyone I'm not in a rush I don't know why we're always in a rush I have all the time I'm free And then the more we tap into that space, we bring back the felt experience. We bring back the remembrance of the ceremony into daily life. And we recondition ourselves that this is more real. Life as I knew it before is less. I was disconnected from my truth, from myself. I was running on a program of the past, an unconscious program, cultural conditioning and so on. But then we get to recondition ourselves and reprogram our beliefs and rewire our nervous system. And that is integration. Integration is really a practice. So when we learn new bits of information, we double the amount of connections in one part of our brains. And if we don't repeat that information and contemplate on it within hours or days, those connections literally weaken and fade. So we go back to normal. It's easier to forget than to remember. So that's why we need to catch that momentum or to at least have a practice or work with someone or coordinate within ourselves to continually remind ourselves, this is the truth that I choose. I want to be awake. I want to engrave more of that. That is why integration is a practice, but it's also kind of a life path. And that's a beautiful shift. Like it's not something I do for a while after the ceremony. It's just the path that I'm on now. I'm just, I was here. Now I'm here. Now I'm living consciously. I don't have to do it perfectly. I just have to show up similar to going to the gym. It's like, I don't have to live in a gym. I don't have to go every day. I don't have to spend half of my day there, but I have a practice that, that is just forever in my life because this is my identity I'm someone who wants to be conscious I'm someone who wants to have choice over how their destiny is shaped similar to how I'm a fit person and I want to be a fit person I want to be healthy so I will be going to the gym it's just a non-negotiable so it's the same with integration I feel It's such a wonderful answer. It reminds me of that. There's an old story where in India, Mahatma Gandhi is on this train and he's pulling out of the station, but some reporter runs up to him and he's like, Mahatmaji, I know you're leaving, but can you give me a message to give to my people? And he scribbles on a piece of paper and he gives it to him. The message is... My life is my message. And it sounds to me like that's I think that's one of many reasons, Alexander, why you are so on fire right now. Like everyone's kind of like, hey, who's Alexander? You're coming up over here and you're like, I think that your message is your life. And like that is integration. Like you're an example of like, not only am I showing you what I'm doing, but I'm living it. And I think that that is what's different. about a message that resonates with people than someone who's just maybe beyond the path, but they haven't quite figured it out yet. So you really got to live that life, right? You really got to live these things that you're talking about. Did you notice that shifting yourself when that began happening? Or were you always aware of that? Or how does the observer play in that? Yeah, that's a good reflection. It was definitely not a... like a light switch of like again from zero to a hundred percent so let me rearrange how I'm sitting on this like beanbag so i Again, I was really lost. It's very interesting. Now I'm co-facilitating a four month program, which has about two months of shadow work in it. And it's kind of like years of therapy in ten weeks because we look at many of the core limiting beliefs we've had as a child and the core players that led to those beliefs, whether those were different people or ourselves, and different resentments we have towards different people or ourselves. And I went through this program myself before now teaching it to other people. And some of my core themes were I'm lost, I'm confused, I don't trust myself, I'm powerless, I'm weak, nothing I do matters. So I've had, it's very interesting to have that fuel the rest of my life. So I was constantly seeking and there was always this voice like, this can't be the truth. there must be more than this. There must be light in the end of the tunnel. So even though I had a lot of evidence of life is suffering and there's no point and what's the point and people don't change and I'm never going to change. I had eating disorders for many years, around nine years that I was in cycles of anorexia and bulimia. And I thought I would never get out of that. I thought it changes your brain forever. It changes the way you look at the world. And then even that, with various types of work, so many different, like on self-love, on body love, on happiness, on limiting beliefs, many workshops around that, then I literally married someone who's the healthiest person I know. So whether I liked it or not, he's like, you're going to work out and we're going to... do higher protein, lower carbs, because that's what he believes is a healthy way. And there's definitely also healthy, subjective, different people. And many diets work, right? It's just stick to it for long enough. And then I think all of them will work or most of them. And so then a few years down the line, I realized I definitely don't qualify as someone who has an eating disorder anymore. But it wasn't like one thing that I could point my finger to and say that was the thing that did it. It was just a lot of work combined. And also it was, you know, from... Definitely psychedelics opened my eyes to a lot of things, but I think it was just a lot of the practicing things, even on days that I didn't feel like it. Because I think a big problem we have these days is that we wait to do something when we feel like it and we will never always feel like it. So on one hand, that's why I say my clients, fuck your feelings and do things. On the other hand, let's look at your feelings. And process like, you know, either do trauma work or understand what, why are you feeling this emotion and be with it, be with it. That's huge. The day that I accepted to be with sadness and I said, I'll just allow it to exist was the day that I didn't no longer need to eat chocolate to suppress my sadness. I'm like, oh, so now I can eat chocolate just because I want to eat it, but not because I don't want to feel like I don't need to grab my phone because I'm feeling an emotion. I can allow the emotion to exist. And what I've also learned was that the more I allow difficult, heavy emotions to be. the more that increased my bandwidth to feel positive emotions like ecstasy and joy and awe and gratitude I'm like I'm just so much more open to life not because I've had the best life and I had nothing bad happen to me but because it's okay to feel And that is to be integrated, to allow the duality to exist. It doesn't have to be all healed, but I can be with pain. Like this situation is really shitty right now and that's okay. And I can allow that to be and I can accept that this is the way it is. And if I can change it, great. And also I can be grateful for what is working. And so I can hold that duality, which as a child we couldn't do because children cannot understand. Say my mom loves me, but she's the one who is punishing me. And so I don't understand how can someone love me and also punish me. And even as adults, we often struggle with that. So yeah, that's also integration, like being with the duality and allowing our feelings to exist and being with them. So yeah, a lot of definitely, what I teach is very multifaceted. It's like mindset and energetics. And there's, I see a balance of healing the past and building the future to be necessary. Because I've had many clients that would get stuck on healing, like constantly finding a problem to fix. Where does this tendency come from? Constantly overcoming something. And it's like, you don't, you will never finish that work and that's okay. and you can still tap into abundance and you can still re-invite that unconditional love that you felt during integration because that's that is during the ceremony because that's here it wasn't created from the medicine it's here and you're just disconnected from it but you can tap into it again it always exists So that is why it's really good to do both. When something is on the way and we want to weed it out, okay, this, I don't know, whatever, procrastination is coming out or like my perfectionistic tendencies are coming out. It's like we can look into that or whatever it is. A trigger, you know, someone pissed me off or I had a fallout with someone or a breakup or whatever. loss of a loved one of course we can be with that and and and do healing work there but also we don't have to never finish that in order to also build the future and be in the present a lot of healing is just being in the present moment I always go back to meditation it's like being here what is here now and and always inviting people to tap into their possibility to dream, to have a purpose, to have a reason to wake up for in the morning. Without a purpose, people perish. It's really important to have that strong why of like, where is my life going? What can I do? How can I be better? Believe that we can be better. Believe in ourselves more than most people believe in anything. It's just so nice to have all of those. Yeah, I definitely bring a lot in. It's really hard to, again, say this changed my life. And I think many people approach psychedelics with this is going to change my life. And that's a lot to ask. Yeah. You know, especially when it's like a life lived without examination, a life lived unconscious with dysfunction. And it's also important to know what a psychedelic ceremony can do and what it cannot do for us. One of my clients wanted to heal her relationship with her body in an ayahuasca ceremony. And it didn't happen. Ayahuasca took her to very different places. And maybe because different work needs to go there and years of work and different modalities. It could be many things. I know that for me has definitely been different modalities and different mindset work. I didn't know it was called mindset work. But then my beliefs started to change and who I believed to be started to change. I literally went from someone who's felt lost for like, twenty five years and now I'm twenty nine. to now being like I literally know what I'll be doing in four years like I have a rough plan I I think I found my calling I'm really excited I'm excited to do things that are aligned to that and it's like it's been years of being lost and then and oh oh my gosh george this is so funny last night I was dreaming something. I find dreams to be incredible. I cannot wait for the day we will have a dream recorder where we, I don't know, have like a little cable somewhere in our heads and then watch our videos on MP for files the day after. I would love that because we have so much information about the subconscious and our psyche. But last night, the I was dreaming. And right when I woke up, the only sentence that I remembered was, you don't have to know what you want. You just have to keep looking. Hours ago. So it's like, that's something I definitely remember. didn't stop doing. It's like, I know there's more and I know there's a lot of resistance. I used to say resistance is my middle name. I would sign up for various things that it felt like, fuck, fuck, fuck. Am I really going to do this? It feels like I'm going to, I need to change and we want to change, but we also don't want to change. We want to hold on. Resistance was always there, always there. And I realized all you need is one percent more willingness than resistance. One percent. And I was like, no, I will do it. But I never stopped believing that there's more. There's more. There's more in this life. I can be happier. There must be some greater purpose, some greater meaning. And yeah, I haven't arrived. I will forever be arriving, but I'm definitely in a much better place than I used to be. Wow. First off, thank you. Thanks for sharing all that with us. The idea that you can never finish, but you have to keep working. It seems on some level to mean so many different things. And I've often thought about that as well. And to the idea of psychedelics, it does give you that momentary break from That break from being the pain, the break from being the divorce or the cancer or the death, you know, breaking yourself from that trauma just to come up for air a little bit is sometimes enough to be like, wait a minute, wait a minute. What the hell am I doing? Sometimes it's just that little glimmer. Isn't it interesting that the darkness is so necessary? I always tell people, man, are you going through the worst trauma of your life? Congratulations. Yeah, yeah. They're like, what the fuck are you talking about, George? You don't understand this person has died. I'm like, I know. And I love you, but congratulations. Like that darkness allows us on somehow to manifest a spark that will guide us through the rest of our lives. But you have to look for it. Like you can sit in that darkness forever. you have, a lot of us have. And I think it's just so interesting to me that it's that darkness that kind of binds us together. In some ways, you know, I don't want to celebrate sadness or the darkness, but on some level, it's necessary, right? Like the eating disorders or the cancer, these things are necessary for us to become who we're supposed to be. Do you think that's a fair statement? Oh, that's such a great way of putting it. I And I've heard from different teachers and different philosophies that all the struggles that we have and all the specific issues that we have to overcome in life they're specifically curated and placed there because this is exactly for us, exactly for us to flourish into who we really are. And the Kabbalah, for example, which I don't know much about, but from what I've heard is that we even choose our family, who's going to be our mother and our father and maybe our culture, because these are the childhood trauma experiences that we need to have. And that brings peace to me. So in the end of the day, if it... It's all meaning making. It's all meaning making. And we all humans, we're meaning making machines. We need something to mean something. And it helps us survive. I think that's why making meanings that serve us is really good. So for me, when I heard that, it brought me peace. I was like, that makes sense. yeah it does make sense it's it's a great way to begin knowing that you're a not alone and that b you're part of something bigger that we're all connected to you know you spoke about it earlier this sort of community that people are searching for and they find it and it lights them up on some levels I want to ask you this, Alexander, because you have went and studied with so many people, and now it seems to me not only have you brought back all these pieces and you're putting this puzzle together, but you have this long-form integration that you're doing. What else do you see that's changing in the world of integration or psychedelics? You seem to be on the forefront of change, and I'm curious to get your thoughts on some of the other things that you see changing. Well, I think more long-term integration will show up because there's no other way. Like, I'm just like, what are we even, what do you mean one integration circle the day after the ceremony? Like, to me, it blows my freaking mind. What do you mean three integration circles? Like integration is a long term ongoing thing. So I think there's going to be more of that. And when I did speak with Rick Doblin and I asked about integration, he said it's integration happens in communities. So that was like the most important element that he brought that we need to get together and realize we're all in this together. We want to do this work and be less isolated. And there's a big need for that we want to belong we're wired to belong and also having traveled a lot and being close with digital nomad communities you know people who want to live anywhere and travel and you know work remotely and travel nonstop permanently basically but they will all gather in co-working spaces or in co-living they want to live together and I know there's a few initiatives for like communal living but it's really important to align in values and that's a whole other topic But for sure, there's a thirst for people to not be alone. And we want to share the experience. We are pack animals. We're not to be isolated. And we can only heal together. Last night, something pissed me off. Not last night, during the day. And then I shared it with one of my friends. And she sent me like a three-minute voice note in response. And the first thing was like, you have no idea how much I get that. Like I've been through that so many times and that was like, I don't need a therapy session. I just need one friend that gets it. And especially during difficult times, we really need each other. And that's where most of us isolate. We go through something, we're like, something's wrong with me. I'm an idiot. That's one of my go-to beliefs. I'm a freaking idiot. I always say that. I won't even share that because that's such a stupid thing to do. But we all go through very similar human experiences. It's especially, but even something heavier than that, those who go into depressive states or depressive periods for months at a time, and that's when they stop talking to people. That's when they drop off the radar. But that is exactly when we need support. And that's exactly when we need leaders and people who believe in the future better than today. And they can, without having proof that it exists. We don't need leaders when things are good. We need them during challenging times. We want to believe in our potential in a better future. And we want to share that with each other. So definitely integration and the future is in community. Yeah. Hi. Dr. Randall Hanson, for those watching within the sound of my voice, you guys should check out. Everybody should listen to Dr. Randall Hanson. He's got a bunch of cool books out on diet, on psychedelics, on healing wholeness. He's a really interesting individual, and I'll point everybody towards him. And thank you, Dr. Randall, for all the work you're doing. He says, yes, the key is understanding the darkness and finding a way through it. Yeah, I would agree. We also have Clint Kyles right here. Shout out to Clint Kyles. You'll probably be on his podcast next. He's got an amazing podcast, the psychedelic Christian podcast. And he says integration is a journey, not a destination. What do you think? What would you add to that, Alexandra? That's it. It takes the rest of our lives. That's what I said one day. I remember I made a post around that. It was like, this is going to be easy. No, but it's easy. What do we want? like do you want a life that's easy you know we want fulfilling we want everlasting we want deep and then deeper and so it's definitely a journey it takes the rest of our lives but honestly what else do we have to do do we have anything better to do and we all go through that like it's like oh this work never ends and I'm still going through something. And I thought I've healed that. And I can't believe I'm still working on this. I think so many of us have this experience. I've definitely had it. My clients definitely have it. My friends have it. So it's like, I thought I healed that already. And it's like, yes, but what are you going to do? Not do this work? It's like, do you even have the choice? And I don't think, I also think that's another thing on your previous question. More and more of us are going to understand that quick fixes are just, there's no quick fix. There's no quick fix. It's all like you commit to something for long enough, continuity, perseverance, consistency. If we didn't do anything, but we picked one thing and we're consistent with it, what would happen? It would work. So that's really important. Yeah, I agree. It's sort of like when you have kids, they're going to learn to walk, God forbid, unless there's something horrible. But you don't ever say, well, I guess little Georgie, he's been trying for like four months. This kid just can't do it. He's not going to be able to walk. Of course, you're going to learn how to walk. You just have to keep doing it, right? And that's the thing with all of us, whether you're whatever you're doing in life, like you just have to keep doing it and you'll get better and you'll become this thing. You may not become exactly what you thought you were going to be, but you become the person you're supposed to be. If you continue to do the work and it brings up Caesar's calm back here that I, I skipped through shout out to Caesar Marin, incredible podcast, cultivating wisdom. You're going to see him on the big stages, an amazing human being. He says he loves how you say challenging experience instead of bad trip in some way. Maybe you can unpack that for some people, Alexandra. Yeah, there's no such thing as bad trip. And I heard that from someone who was giving a speech in Psychedelic Science, the conference, it's like, And one of my friends used to say, we all just want to feel good. It's not about feeling good all the time. It's about feeling all of it. Another friend of mine used to say, I didn't come here to feel good. I came here to get good at feeling. You know, it's like, be more human. Be human. Feel all of it. Feeling is healing. And yeah, there's... It is a challenging trip because we're definitely going through darkness and shadow and pain and emotions we might have chosen as a child to never feel again. And now they're coming back and we have to feel them because that's the way through. As Dr. Randall said earlier that the only way, he said something along the lines of the only way with shadow is to go through it. Yeah, yeah. And there's nothing as a bad trip because even difficult experiences, we can learn from that and we can finally stop running away from pain. Suffering happens because we resist feeling things we didn't want to feel. We resist feeling pain. And actually, it is when we allow ourselves to be with it and feel all of it, and we also realize that we can hold it, we can hold our own experience and our own emotions, that that thing actually dissolves and we can get to the next stage. We can move through it. We can continue having a beautiful life. But often the same message shows up until we actually look at it. and some will go to different psychedelics they're like oh it gave me this message no no I'll just go do something else and then it's always the same message it's like freaking integrate bro it's like that's the message that's the work let's do that it can be done it really can so there's no such thing as bad trip trips that we don't prepare for can definitely end up bad I've definitely heard of stories where, you know, if there's a harm reduction, like if there's a few things that would be great to do in terms of set and setting, if it's your first experience, maybe don't go to a festival where you can get paranoid. Maybe do it in your own home or in nature with good friends. Maybe get enough water. Maybe you have a nice setting around you. And many do that. everything they weren't supposed to do. Mixing substances, overdoing it around people they don't trust in a new environment that didn't even plan to go there. They weren't in a good mood anyway. There's no intent. And then it's like, I got paranoid. Well, yes. that's likely to happen if you follow this recipe that's likely to happen so blood trips always also happen not always also happen because of lack of preparation or lack of education lack of awareness of what can actually happen in a psychedelic trip which is a big deal it's an experience many of us never had before and it's very difficult to describe it And as much as you prepare for it, you may still not be prepared for it at all. So it's not something to take lightly. I'm definitely one that's always a bit overly cautious. Yeah, I think you have to be. I think there's a healthy dose of respect. Like, I'm always a little frightened. I'm like, oh, man, am I going to do this? Am I going to do this? Then you do it and you're like, oh, I took too much. I shouldn't have done that. But for me, it simulates understanding pain. And maybe that was just my message. But sometimes you'll be pretty deep in something and you'll be like, I don't want to think about this. And you're like, okay, let me turn it on a lot more for you. And the more you say you don't want to do it, like the brighter the picture, the more the pattern, like the deeper it gets until finally you're like, okay, let's think about it. And then you sit with it and then it begins to fade away. You're like, oh, that's all it was. I just had to sit there and face it. And that, that manifests itself in life. Like, okay, that's a lesson in an altered state of consciousness that teaches you in real life. You have to face it. It's not that big. You're making it something way bigger than it is. Stop doing that. Just look at it. Just sit down with it for a little bit and it'll, it'll turn its head. It'll fade away. It's, it's such a brilliant lesson and it's, it is frightening though, right? Like it can be frightening. Oh, for sure. It's like that Shakespeare quote, nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. And definitely darkness magnifies in when we ignore something, the worse it gets and the longer we ignore it, the worse it gets. So there's, yeah, there's definitely a lot of truth in what you said. It's like when we finally, and often that happens in psychedelic experiences, when we're like, okay, fine, show me, I'll speak with the dragon. I'll just, and then it's like, you know, it happens and it moves through and then you can finally change the topic in your psychedelic. But yeah, just being, I think, yeah, if listeners are to only take one thing from this conversation, it's just that, we don't have to resist and run away from what shows up. In fact, my best psychedelic trips personally was when I was like, I can take it, show me, give me more, I can take it. You know what? How bad can it get? And I've had a ceremony on, there's only fear of fear itself, but there was actually nothing to be afraid of because everything can be figured out. So, like having that bravery of I can hold myself, I can hold my experience and anything that comes up, I'm not going to be consumed from it. What we're afraid of is if we sit with pain, with sadness, with grief, then we will be so consumed. We will not be able to come out of it and live our lives again. We won't be able to be creative again or have a job or a relationship because that was our experience as a child. But now we have different resources. We have each other. We have support that we didn't have as a child, possibly. So now we actually can be with the feeling, whatever it is, and then move through it. And that is actually healing. Feeling is healing. I'm reading right now Ryan Holiday's The Obstacle is the Way. Oh, great book. So good. And so... relevant to this conversation yeah it also touches upon and this was going to be my next question for you was this relationship with uncertainty you know we find ourselves in life sometimes be someone you love is going through a really medical condition maybe you yourself are going through a medical for me my wife recently got diagnosed with cancer and it was like you have to sit down and you go and you meet with this team of doctors you have an oncologist and you have a surgeon and And you're in this hospital and you're talking about this disease that kills people. And it's so surreal. And it's such a serious topic on so many ways. And that's just one example of what people may or may not be going through. But there is this sort of cloud of uncertainty that begins to hang over you. Like, are you going to control this one? Now, what are you going to do? Do you realize how serious this is? And like, so this idea of uncertainty is something that we really wrestle with in life, no matter what age you are, if you're a kid, if you're an adult. But what do you think is a way or how have you found to build a relationship with uncertainty, Alexandra? First of all, I'm really sorry you got this news. I really hope everything will be good. Really praying for that. So there's, of course, being with what is, right? So it's not about escaping what is, making something different than what is, but being with what is is one thing, like, again, accepting reality as it is. And then to be a visionary is to hope and pray and live. If we were to do again, dispenser work, which often does help people cure physical diseases or illnesses. And it's like, there is a potential, there is a healing potential and I can tap into that. So I read the other day, Fear and confidence is believing in something that hasn't happened. It's kind of like believing in an imaginary scenario. So we always have a choice and it's really good to focus on things that can help us cope and help us survive and help us fight it, give us strength. So that like having a vision or believing that it will go well. What if it will? I mean, we never know, right? So holding both, like the reality is as it is. I'm not minimizing it. I'm not making it worse than it is because that can also be very tempting to make it worse than it is. And then to be a visionary is to possibly see it as better than it is. What if? I mean, all we can do is hope, right? But again, The Obstacle is the Way is such a good book on that, on like how... people overcame adversity of any kind by realizing I can disidentify myself from the emotion. Like the emotion doesn't need to make a decision. And it's like that thing, was it in the Bible? I'm not sure, I haven't read the Bible of like, give me strength to change the things that I can and to also to be with the things that I cannot change, but then see, is there anything I can do? Because often when we get too immersed in the emotion, it can be really difficult to find a way out. Well, in reality, it's like, can I go to a different doctor? Can I go to a hospital in different countries? Is there any different types of treatment? So this identifying also from the emotion, being with the experience, step one, And then being like, okay, objectively, if that was happening to a friend, what would I tell them? Because often we get so immersed with the experience that it's really hard to think clearly and to see things clearly, to see things objectively. Or having other people, people that we trust, like their perspective, their support, receiving support, allowing support. It's really nice both to receive and to offer support. And again, we're pack animals. Let's do it all together. Yeah. Yeah. It's for me, it, I think that that's sort of how communities begin to build themselves is that you recognize the heartache in someone else because you've been through it and you can see them. And maybe that's the purpose of tragedy sometimes is like, okay, I'm going to go through this thing. And when you come out that other side, you're forever changed and you have this rare ability, this sort of foresight to see someone else who may beginning to go through it is in it or is just coming out of it. And it's like, oh I should help this person because here's what happened to me when I did it and it's sort of like community grows like mycelium and all of a sudden you start finding each other you know and isn't it interesting how community builds itself around that and yeah it's interesting what's your take on that of course and a mentor of mine used to say we all go through the same experience yes And that is why I remember back in the days, I've heard from someone else, everyone, especially women, used to rely on their mothers, their aunties, their sisters. They all went through the same experiences. So that's why it's really important to open ourselves up to receiving support. So many of us find it really difficult. Yeah, the serenity prayer, that was the one. Thank you, Clint. So that's why it's really important to... release that belief of I need to figure it out by myself I can't share this people will think x y z it's like ask ask for support one of the best tips ever given to me was in life you only get what you ask for and if the answer is no then you ask someone else like kids When they go to their mom, mom can't get that number. It's like, no. Then go to the dad. Dad can't get the number. No. Then go to the grandma. And she's like, yes, go get it. Not expecting, not assuming, not making different assumptions about they will think X, Y, and Z, but actually allowing to receive support. and also supporting others when we can. And that it's as if our heart grows bigger. It's just, we become more human and so beautiful to be human, to live human, to, yeah, to connect. Yeah, I think that that takes us full circle back into psychedelics. They've been around forever. People have been using these to sort of break out of isolation or to optimize themselves in a way they didn't know was possible or to see a different future or understand a past relevant event. Do you think this is something that's cyclical? There seems to be these wave of psychedelics. Or is it that just you, yourself, me, and all of our listeners here are sort of seekers and we're finding this thing? Do you have any thoughts on that? that and that's why I believe we need to keep seeking and we will find I from what I know but also from what feels truth to me is that psychedelics have always been around and humans have always had this thirst for more because there is more And the tool is there and our thirst to find it is there. So when those two meet, we get to become more. And yeah, since I think for political reasons and various people's profits, psychedelics are largely illegal. Paul Austin, who was one of my lecturers and also friend, he posted the other day, alcohol is legal and psychedelics are illegal because the government wants you numb, not awake. And I found that to be an excellent post. I love his posts in general. He communicates in five words what I tend to communicate in thirty five minutes. I really appreciate people who can be so precise. And that's the thing, like the secularists have always been around and it's such a pity that so many of us don't know. And we grew up around beliefs that they're bad and we should stay away from them so that we are very much disconnected from so much of our potential. In an MDMA journey, one of my very first MDMA journeys, I had the experience that I was like sober And I think we're not sober now. We're sober when we take the psychedelic because we're more awake. But what I experienced was that we normally stand behind a door that's mainly closed, but slightly open, but mainly closed. And when we take psychedelics, that door of perception opens and we get to see all that is always there. So we're finally like, oh my gosh, it's like that is what makes it feel more true than true. And yeah, that was always the case, I think. And these conversations can hopefully inspire others to go have these experiences, especially with trusted facilitators, always read for reviews. And if you can connect with their facilitator and learn about the center and all of that. You really want to trust the experience. The more we trust, the deeper we go. And that's why often the longer we work with someone, the deeper we go. And the more we know ourselves, the deeper we can go. Because often when we're scared of what can come up and we haven't done too much work, we're kind of like holding on. But also the more we have these experiences, I think the deeper we can go. And then again, we get to experience more from life. Terrence McKenna said once, just like I would feel really bad for someone dying and never having a sexual experience, I would feel really bad someone dying and never having a psychedelic experience. It's like it was there to be had. It's such a beautiful part of life. So why not Yeah, it's a birthright on some level, if you're willing to. I mean, maybe some people, it's not for them at this point in time, or everybody's got their own reasons. But I'm curious... I heard a quote one time that was something like, it's all medicinal. When I look back at the usage and so many people that I've spoken to, it seems to start off as recreational. Like, hey, I'm going to try this thing. And next thing you know, you're at a Grateful Dead show or you're sitting in your Volkswagen bus with your quarter pound of weed buying sheets. I don't know what people are doing, but maybe that was your experience. That was my experience. But these ideas of recreational... are really the relationship is interesting to me because it starts off as this playful thing oh I'm gonna this is a cool tool and then all of a sudden later in life you have this same tool but you're aware of using it in a way that you didn't know was possible earlier you don't have to share but was was your experience in the beginning recreational then it led to more of like sort of a thought process of change or how was how was your beginning relationship with psychedelics What you're saying reminds me of a quote I saw here on LinkedIn, I think, was from G.B. Freeman, which I also love so much. And he posted something among the lines of, you can take psychedelic out of spiritual, but not spiritual out of psychedelic. Something like that. Again, so spot on. And It definitely started with reading about psychedelics for me. So for a couple of years before I could try them, not because I didn't want to, but because I couldn't find them, like I said, didn't know where. And that created a thirst. And I used to think that, hey, we don't know if this is going to be deadly like we you know we got it from some guy and we don't know the guy right you know so like we don't even know the guy who connected us to the guy so I thought like might as well worth might as well make it count so what are we here to do um that was one of my lsd experiences but actually which were recreational but still intentional yeah Like I always wanted to get around to my eating disorders. It was really interesting. It's kind of funny now. It was like, you know, I'm going to, with some of my best friends at the time, I was like, we're going to talk about this. But then I was like, ah, fuck it. But still we would end up having like really good conversations, go much deeper and bond even more with each other. But yeah, the first time, The first, first, first ever was MDMA for me. And I was really impressed with our senses. I was like, I can hear so much deeper and the colors are really interesting. So I was definitely mesmerized by that. And then when I did it, not in the club, but at home with my partner at the time, and we ended up having kind of like resolving months of issues in our relationship in one evening. And I also had that experience that I described where I realized that actually this is the sober, like I'm not sober on normal waking life, which is like, why is it even called normal? It should be called subnormal or something. Like we're underperforming, we're underutilizing our attention, our potential, we're distracted, we're like constantly stuck in our minds, disconnected from what's really going on. But there's, yeah, there's definitely an element of both of both recreational and ooh something bigger is going on here but I also hear a lot of stories from people who are just partying and still like they're not interested in something deeper and again that's fine we always you know everyone is on their own journey with themselves and their karma or whatever. Not that I'm a huge believer in that, but some of it makes sense to me. Maybe I will be in the future. I don't know. I'm always learning something. But yeah, I definitely also hear stories of people who do use and abuse psychedelics for just completely recreational purposes. And it doesn't seem to me like they're getting much out of it. So in the end of the day, there's always like those who want more out of it, those who are on this path of seeking truth, seeking more, I want to discover something or I want to heal something from the past that's pretty much unresolved and stuck and makes my life worse. And those are more the people that we refer to, especially with our LinkedIn posts or those who would be interested in integrating or preparing things. But yeah, of course, like same with like any tool, any modality, it can be used for one purpose or another or no purpose. And again, even if you just have psychedelics just to have fun, I think go do it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's such a, it's such an interesting time. And I'm so thankful that people like you were out there and people like Paul and Clint and Nick and Caesar and Dr. Randall. And there's such a cool community of people out there that have, if people are listening to my voice and you're going through something, you should reach out to somebody because there's plenty of people that have been through what you've been through. And yeah, they have unique ways of handling it. I think if you're seeking integration of some sort, I think that Alexandra has hands down one of the most unique approaches and she's on the cutting edge and she sat with and talked to some of the most knowledgeable minds out there. She's done it. And more than that, she has listened to them and created her own way of helping people, which I think is unique out there. And so- As we're getting ready to land the plane here, Alexander, I want to say thank you for all your time. This conversation was fascinating. I really, really enjoyed it. But before we go, maybe you could just tell people about where they can find you, what you have coming up, what to expect if they were to call you, if they wanted to reach out to you. Do you have any programs coming up? Maybe you could just land the plane and tell us, you know, how do they get a hold of you? And if they do get a hold of you, what can they expect? Of course. And I also know that my approaches will not resonate with everybody. That's why I offer discovery calls if someone wants to see. In the end of the day, it's like, how do you feel during this conversation? Do you feel like I'm the person that could help your journey or not? And do you feel excited or expanded or contracted and overwhelmed or that I have no idea what I'm talking about? And it's all valid in your experience. And very much agree with Cesar. We'll get back around to that. How grateful I am for you in this conversation. And in terms of integration, there's both one to one and a group container that I'm launching now for the first time. And I believe this will be my probably forever program because again, I think that integration happens best in a group. And I've seen in various of my clients, most of them will have one session weekly, which is normally ninety minutes. But by the time of the next session, they have forgotten the last. Because as we've said already, it's easier to forget than to remember if we don't practice all the time and rehearse this information and practice with some action. the identity that we're looking to engrave, it's really hard to stick with it. It's easier to fall out and go back to the life we've always had, which is what inspired me to create a much more intense container. We meet for four hours a week, twice a week, and split between lectures and also hot seat coaching. So everybody gets some support. And it's also the container that I've needed when I had beautiful experiences that were so out of the ordinary. And it felt as if, you know, I was left hanging after like, what do I do now? How can I have someone literally brainwashing me that this is your ceremony. This is what you said you wanted. This is the truth you tapped into. This is what you want more of. So I needed someone to hold me a lot more. at least in the beginning, so that I normalize that and I'm trained. Basically what I say is like the integration program I've created, it starts with three months, but it will probably evolve into six months and maybe longer than that. So it's designed to train you out of the life you no longer want to have and into the life you want to have. So there's a lot of like, Yeah, I love it. There's a lot of contact proximity. It's like, again, four hours a week for two months and then two hours a week in the third month. I'm launching the first round of that in the end of February. So we're starting some pre-course work, the seventeenth of February. That's next week. And then the live call starts on the twenty fifth. And then there's always going to be more of that. It's only going to get better and better. As you've said, I'm piecing different teachers and philosophies and practices into one cohesive program. So there's a balance of healing work and personal development work. There's theory because it's really important to know what you're doing and why you're doing it. Why are you integrating? Why is this important? So there is fifty percent of that and fifty percent of embodiment, practice, guided meditations, actions you got that you decide that you need to take and accountability check it throughout the week. So it's very much a balance of understanding and embodying, because the point is to come into wholeness. That's integration, to be whole, to have a holistic approach. And I found also that challenging experiences, if something was heavy, that's best for one-to-one work so that we can fully unpack it, be with the body. I would use a lot of compassionate inquiry there, among other tools. and that would be best for one-to-one work. Of course, So if it's like really dark, that would be one-to-one. If it's mainly positive experiences that you want to integrate and you want more of that into your life, that's best for the three-month integration container that I have because we will all be tapping into abundance and love and oneness. And those meditations, those sessions, the hot seat coaching sessions that we will do there, they will definitely benefit everybody. And there's also a hybrid model because some of my clients cannot show up for the program, but they might opt to have the lectures of the program as part of the one-to-one. So there's always like some other ways to mix and match. Thealexexperience.com is my website. And I will be posting more about this program this week. And Instagram at The Alex Experience. Here on LinkedIn, Alexandra-Arzoglu, my complicated last name. You probably need to see that written before you try to type it. And yeah, I would be more than happy if people are called to support them through. This is my life's work. For me, it's not all the cool experiences I've had all over the world that made me who I am as much as it was what I did in between, what I chose to continue implementing, what I chose to continue remembering, the things I kept studying, the communities I kept throwing myself in, the relationships I still have. I think this is why People ask me, what are you taking? And it's like, I'm just happy. And it's just good. I'm not on it. I'm not even microdosing. That's the best compliment I get. What are you taking? And I feel like I just want to infect more people with Inspiration to live and a vision. There's lectures around having a vision, finding something to contribute to something bigger than yourself, reconnecting with your spiritual essence, maintaining that spiritual connection. A lot of mindset, identity work, how it's more important than knowing what you want is knowing who you are and who you want to be. So there's lectures and material around that that I help people with. And of course, that's not going to resonate with everyone. But if it does with some, I would love to speak to them and get to know these beautiful souls. And again, thank you so much, George, for this conversation. I'm so, so grateful for you. And I'm honestly wishing all the best for you and your wife and your journey. Really, really hope everything unfolds in a beautiful way. I know so many people who have cured this disease and helped others after, and they're doing incredible things. Yeah. Well, thank you for the kind words and the thoughts and this conversation. And I'm learning a lot right now. So I'm excited to have the opportunity to become the very best version of myself and my family. So thank you for that. And everybody within the sound of my voice, go down, reach out to Alexandra. She's amazing. Talk to her yourself. You'll figure it out. Alexander, hang on briefly afterwards. But to everybody else, we have a beautiful day. Cesar, Clint, Randall, Paul, Nick, everybody in the chat, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I hope everybody has a beautiful day. That's all we got. Aloha. Bye.