Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the true life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. Hope the sun is shining. I hope the birds are singing. Hope the wind is at your back. Got a great show for you today. In a world caught between collapsing systems and rising possibilities, one voice cuts through the noise, measured, visionary, unafraid. Remzi is not just an entrepreneur, he's a cartographer of new economies, sketching maps where others see chaos. From data to development, from finance to philosophy, he moves with precision, designing structures that serve people, not control them. A student of systems and a steward of truth, His mission is clear, to build a future where value flows like water, free, fair, and alive. Remzi, thanks for being here today. How are you? Monty, thank you for having me. Wow, that was an incredible introduction. Really appreciate that. Well, I'm stoked you're here, man. I'm stoked you're doing what you're doing, and it's an exciting time. And I know it's not without pain. You and I were talking briefly before the show about sometimes you need the darkness in order to see the light. But let's jump in. Maybe you can give people a little bit more of a background on what it is we're going to get into today and what you're up to and maybe the Denver conference you've been to and what you're working on. Well, I'll give you a really quick overview. I'll start with just describing what Common Planet is, what our project is. Our organization is called Common Planet. And so the structure is essentially we're trying to introduce a new monetary system that we now call creditism, which is a non-debt based currency system. which doesn't exist and has never existed, of course. But the structure, the common planet, what it is, is an umbrella. It is designed to create the decentralized world, a world where individuals are free, they're sovereign. They get to make choices, not just in the political realm, but also in the economic realm. And this is what the credit currency system can do. And so it is an overarching project of how to unite the world under decentralized principles and structures. And this is all possible, by the way, Monty, only because of technology. You and I are only talking really because this is made possible to overcome these issues of trust that humans have had. Now, my journey started because about just over ten years ago, When, you know, just like everyone else, you know, we're all paying attention to the world. We see the problems. We see the accelerating, you know, damages and things that are escalating. And it seems out of control. And it seems like it's, you know, destined for collapse or chaos. And nobody wants that. And so I was busy preparing for collapse, you know, like my wife and I were talking about. bugging out and you know buying land and you know being self-sufficient and that whole concept and but you know my daughter walked in she was sixteen at the time she was our oldest eldest and and she basically said to us you know you guys shut the f up and start looking for solutions because that's not a solution to escape you know to look out for only yourself life isn't about you know you living on your own life is community life is you know living with other people And so like it or not, we're in this together and we have to figure this out. And so that's what we did. We started looking for solutions and we found them pretty quickly because when you ask people what you want universally, it's not a very difficult question. We all pretty much want the same things, right? We recognize you know, what those principles are. I mean, it's the same conversations that, you know, our forefathers, the people who founded this country, asked themselves, what do we want? And they came up with some principles, right? That's how we got the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and all these things, because It's when you when you come down to it, it's it's those principles are pretty self-evident. Now, the economics part about it isn't easy. Like I say, my background is in finance. And so finance and currency and money is only but one branch of economics. Economics is the whole shebang. It's everything. It's life. It's how we interact with each other, you know, with the resources of the world, the labor and the currency. So it's not just the money. But I was in the weeds. I wasn't following that branch of financing and too busy trying to make money and trying to help my clients make money. And then, you know, around that time, I said, wait a minute. What is money? Where does it come from? And so I was asking the wrong questions. How to make money isn't the right answer. The real question is, you know, money is a human construct. Somebody is creating it. These units are increasing in quantity and decreasing. And so what is that nature? How does that happen? What are the rules? Under what conditions are those happening? And what we discovered was, oh, wow. They actually are human-generated, and it's actually rather simple. So we'll get that in a moment. So basically, that's my background. That's how we started this project, and we'll get to, in a moment, to where we are present as well. But I'll let you continue asking the questions. Yeah, I think it's a brilliant intro. And it's interesting that you think that you bring up this idea of, you know, where you were in finance and the questions you were asking and sort of the despair of like, this thing's collapsing. We got to get out of here, man. Get your bug out bag. Maybe you can buy space in a bunker somewhere. You know what I mean? Like, I know so many people, myself included, were like, you just got to get out. You got to leave. And that's the first sort of response you have to a crisis. We got to get out of here. This thing is coming down. But the truth is, I love what you said about community because that's the answer. Relationships are the real currency. And you begin to see that when you get into situations like, oh, my gosh. And your friend calls you and then it dawns on you. Oh, my gosh, that's great advice. Oh, my gosh. I love this person. I'm so thankful I talked to them. And like you start realizing how much chasing money alienates you from everything else. And it just gives you this narrow view. We've done it for so long. And there's a there's a discount rate on money. There's a there's so many people, myself included. You get to an age where you realize money has a discount rate. The older you get, the kind of less it's worth. And the more you start realizing what you left behind. Man, I chased this. I tried to make a million dollars before I was forty. I was a horrible father. I was a horrible husband. All because I wanted to provide. Like it's such a crazy paradox there. But maybe you can talk a little bit more about what you got. Well, we can't escape it, right? It's a natural part of our lives. Currency is the blood of the economic system. Without it, you don't get access to the resources of the world. And it's not like it used to be in mercantilism or in the past when everyone had a little bit of land and they were able to grow some food and exchange in the market. And that's kind of the world that I grew up in, actually. Where I grew up was in Yugoslavia where I was born. I was only there for five years, but what it was it was you know it was essentially people owning their own land and trading with each other but see we you and I we don't own land anymore we don't grow food anymore we're dependent upon this uh jobs on this yeah other uh source of of sustenance um so we we need the currency unit we can't we don't have the the resources to exchange with one another to build community the only resource we have to exchange is our time and our labor if it's needed but that's the that's the that's the that's the problem is that that particular game is like musical chairs right there's only ever going to be a certain quantity of jobs available and as we're seeing right now with the economy well look it's looking like they're going to um that unemployment's going to rise you know businesses are going to in this environment of volatility, uncertainty. Businesses can't operate. How do you operate a business when you have no idea what your costs and inputs are going to be relative to your... This is a nightmare situation that these children in our administration, because that's what they are. They're not serious people. These are not serious people. And so they've lost the plot. But those kinds of problems don't really matter to the upper echelon of this economic game because there is no level of – in the market, if you are on the top and you have a lot of money – there's nothing you can't purchase if the market doesn't produce enough for everybody it's not your problem you're first in line you're always going to have you know be able to get access and so it doesn't matter what the cost is you'll still you'll be fine so this is the problem these guys in the top they truly don't care uh and and we have no choice but to build this alternative structure to escape their their dominant power And if I may just get into maybe a little bit of a conspiracy rant here. I love it, man. Run it. I fundamentally believe at this moment that there is a coordinated effort from the global ruling elites. And I'm talking about the banking dynasties in particular. They say that Elon Musk is the richest person in the world. This is a joke. Let's be real here. This is a bad joke. whose entire net worth is in essentially abstract speculative assets. They're not real assets and they're known. Whereas these banking dynasties that really rule the world and control all of the flows of the resources and labor in the world, they have secret accounts. This is why Switzerland has these privacy rules and secrecy rules on banking, And that's also why they happen to be neutral is because that's where the Bank of International Settlements is located. That's the head of the snake. That's the global central bank of all central banks. And my fear is that they're intentionally causing these conflicts, this chaos in the world that's going to drive the world into recession, possibly depression. probably into wars why also they invest in wars are great for banks by the way they get to invest in construction and then destruction and reconstruction it's a great business model and so my fear is that they're going to use all this to essentially destabilize the world and then uh basically remove the u.s dollar as the reserve currency and possibly create a new global central banking uh you know based currency system That seems to be where they're headed. Maybe conspiracy? I don't know. It doesn't matter. What is obvious is that chaos is at our door, and nobody wants that. And unfortunately, the economic game that we're playing can only ever offer chaos because it is a war. It's a constant battle. Every single day, you and I are competing and fighting with our brothers and sisters, with our neighbors and communities because somebody is going to win that economic exchange game. That's what this terror war is about. It's a game of winners and losers. And so why does there have to be winners and losers in exchange? It's nonsense. The whole structure is bad. I love it. I think it speaks to the idea of scarcity and it's a false scarcity. And I love that you brought up the BIA. And I think that when you start looking at these institutions, I think crypto, Bitcoin, Ethereum, and a few others, they really rattled the cage of the people that have been in positions of authority. If you want a good example, you know what was the greatest example was the Wall Street bets guys. Like here, here's a group of like-minded people that get together. Shout out to roaring kitty. The guy's a genius and all the apes out there. So stoked. You guys are here. It's so amazing to see what these people did. They did what the big guys always do. And it was so interesting. I remember watching, like I was watching some news channel somewhere. And as soon as like they disrupted GameStop, all of a sudden they wheel out some guy in switch. I'm like, I've never seen him in my life. And he's like, we had to shut it down. And then he walks off the camera. Like, who's that guy? Who is that guy? That guy just shut down the entire market. Like all these hedge funds are crying. We're losing. They're doing it. They're doing it themselves. It obviously in the background, that's their entire business model is control destruction. Yeah, absolutely. They get to control the direction of the volume flow. They don't want us interrupting in that. Cause you know, that would be, uh, that would be, you know, cutting in the near turf and they can lose to us. So I know that's, It is amazing what they've done. And the whole crypto universe has opened the door for people really to take control of this. But still, at present, we're still operating on their game, right? Their game is asset exchange. And so the currency doesn't necessarily need to be an asset in the sense of... I mean, it is... at present, and it will still be a tool of value of exchange. But it's fundamentally different than a real asset. So an abstract asset, because it can be created. And this is what makes Bitcoin one of the premier cryptos is that it has specific protocols on the quantity, on its creation. And so that is unique. That's what gives it that value, that scarcity as an asset. So that's kind of neat. But at present, though, it is still playing in their sandbox. It's still an asset exchange game. is a good decentralized tool that we could modify and adopt to take away the centralized power. But at present, it hasn't done that yet. That's not where we're at right now with the crypto space and the blockchain space is that we're developing the tools of disruption and distribution, but they haven't yet quite been fine tuned and implemented. And so that's what we hope to do. That's part of our project is to condition and to design those decentralized principles so that we can actually do those on the blockchain. We can actually do those structurally with agreements without the centralized powers of the world dictating terms to us and dictating and forcing their central bank, digital currency on us and protocols. And so it's a battle for freedom between us and the centralized powers of the world. And they want to maintain their power at any cost. And that sucks. Yeah, it's interesting. Like if you look at the war in Ukraine and you start peeling back a little bit, you're like, oh, I see what's happening. We take all the money from from poor people in rich countries and give it to rich people in poor countries. And then they buy the weapons and then they destroy everything and they build it back up with the new supply chains in for the next hundred years. Oh, it's this great game that's happening. But let's tell me about creditivism. And like, like, let's first off, tell me about creditivism. And then I would like you to try to figure out what happens when they try to shut it down. Like, how do you build something that a centralized power can't come in and buy all of it? Or how do you build something that can't be shut down? Start with creditivism though. There's numerous questions there, but let's start with the basics of credit. So at present, we know that the money, the currency, is basically flowing to... A group of people who happen to own all the resources, right? Oil, the trees, base materials of the world, which the nations are embroiled in wars over. It is a fundamental source of the currency. So anyone who extracts the stuff can exchange it for currency. And they're getting this for nothing, by the way, because who did they buy that land from? Nobody. To start the game, somebody has to claim it and steal it basically and say, this is mine. And they get that money. Same thing with the banks. Fundamentally, they are creating the currency as credit. They get it as zero percent interest, and they're using it to buy assets and put us in debt, loan contracts and bonds. And they're collecting free interest on that portion. And then what does that leave? That leaves the rest of us, the entrepreneurs and the laborers who are producing the real value, who are producing the real creativity in the real production, are left with a little piece. But that piece that we get is never enough to cover the entire portion of the price. Because some of that price is always going to go to the interest. and to those owners and both of those people didn't do anything to deserve it of course they just claim it as theirs so this is fundamental problem of capitalism it distributes the currency in such a ways that these owners and these banks are always going to be in privileged positions who use those uh you know profits and earnings to you know to buy more privileges and purchase more property and purchase more of the ownership stake and so that game is fundamentally already dysfunctional, bad. So what credit is saying, hey, look, let's separate the distribution of the currency away from the exchange of assets and recognize that what's truly valuable is humans, right? And say, okay, so why don't we distribute the currency directly to humans as a universal basic income? an amount of currency that every single person gets that would be enough for them at least to be able to choose what resources they want at a bare minimum and then the second portion is that we can actually create the currency as a proof of participation so every time a person lives they work they play um you know or um work play uh wow I'm drawing a blank right now this is work, play, contribute, they pay bills, live their life. No, no, there's only a third one. I cannot believe I'm blanking. I cut this part out. Wow. Oh, work, play, learn, my bad. There you go. Every time a person works, plays, or learns, they're contributing to society. That's valuable, right? We're investing the currency. We're investing in humans. And the return that we get as a society is more wealth in the form of smarter people, healthier people, and more productive people. And the more productive the people are, the bigger the pie is. The bigger the pie of stuff and services is, the happier everyone is, the more there is for everyone. And then the third part is a little bit trickier, but essentially it's a bonus. And so it would be a fair competition between various industries and co-ops and clubs competing towards new metrics instead of saying the winners of who you know the the companies that get the most money are the ones who sell the most based on exchange prices instead we say no what is it that you're trying to do you're a bike manufacturer okay well can you reduce how much uh energy it takes to produce the bikes so we can reduce energy uh you know costs yes the winners of that particular game get a little bit more uh profit can we reduce the amount of labor that's embedded in the production of the bikes those people those industries those co-ops would earn more they would win so to speak that year can we um increase uh the longevity of the bike can we make it more durable can we make it you know recyclable all these other features and purposes which actually meet and are designed to you know, to do something rather than just pure profit. Profit is just one metric that is flawed, that worked in mercantilism, right? It worked in the past when you have distribution, equal distribution of the stuff. But today, the stuff and the power is all concentrated, ownership is concentrated, and the privileges are concentrated. So you can't do that. You can't run that for profit game anymore. Anyway, so... Basically, creditism is a distribution of recognizing that all money has always been, at least at modern times, credit-based. It is something that humans create. We can design it. We can distribute it. And so the neat function here is that because the credit is being created and it's raining down on society, on people, literally raining, like, here's more, here's more, here's more. But what's interesting about this model, what makes it stable? and infinite, meaning you can play this forever, is that when you distribute the currency units to the population, to the people, and to the co-ops, what's happening is that when you use the currency to purchase something from the market, it simply deletes. There are no more owners, right? Because the currency has already been distributed to the individuals, to the workers, and to the co-ops based on those new profit metrics. And so there are no... absentee owners or banks who are sucking, leeching off, parasiting off the currency unit for doing nothing. Everyone who's collecting the currency here is doing something. And so the products that are in the market are basically owned by society. No one owns them yet because they have yet to be purchased. once they're purchased the currency that is used to to buy it deletes and that's that and now you have the good of course you can always sell your good exchange it for the currency but over time we know things deteriorate right this cup eventually will be worth worthless and so that those currencies that were embedded in the production of this disappear so the whole system is a flow currency it flows some of it circulates obviously through used goods but the majority of it deletes when we purchase new stuff in the market and we're always purchasing stuff in the market we're always going to consume we need food we need you know entertainment activities all these things um we need to compete for and what's interesting about this model is that It allows us to bring out the best of capitalism, the entrepreneurs, the creatives, the production. And so we can incentivize that through this structure without creating inequalities, without creating people who can't participate. So everyone is free to participate. And you're also free not to participate if you don't want to. It may be the case where a person is happy and sufficient with what minimal amount they're getting. But we don't know what other things they're going to be able to contribute later on. So investing in that human now, even though they may not be producing for the market. it's okay because maybe one day they come up with some idea that ends up producing ten times more than they would have produced you know in one year so it's important to invest in humans I see humans labor as the most valuable resource in the world and at present We're not utilizing it. We are wasting it. If we are being serious and honest with ourselves, we look at capitalism. We will see that there are there is the equivalence of essentially paying people to dig holes and fill them up. I mean, it's not obviously that direct, but it is in the sense of let's say banking, finance, insurance, all these industries in a creditism system don't exist anymore. There are no more banks. There's no more stock markets. There's no more insurance. None of that is necessary because we figured out the distribution of the currency system outside of that bullshit, complicated scheme that they've created. And so all those people and all those jobs are technically not producing anything for the market. They're just middlemen. They're sucking. They're pretending to add value because we made the game so complex and we made financialization important and critical. It's like designing. It's like going from the combustion engine to an electric engine. You have all these pieces and components that you have to have In the combustion engine. But all of a sudden, you switch to a simpler model and those pieces are unnecessary anymore. So you don't need them. Same thing here. Those pieces of the economic system, because really, what are we talking about? We're talking about labor, resources, and then the pie, right? Those two pieces combined produce the pie. And so what's important about economics? It's the pie. are we focusing on the pie? No, we're not. We're focusing on the numbers, but the numbers don't represent the pie. It's easy for us to say, to increase the numbers and say, we've increased the GDP, but did that result in an increase of the pie or not? And so no one knows because we're too busy looking at the numbers and not actually looking at the pie. Did we grow more food? Do we have more machines? Do we have all the drugs that we need? Like, none of those make up the measurement of the system. Back to creditism. Creditism essentially solves poverty, it solves inequality, it solves the possibility of somebody being able to steal your currency, You wouldn't be able to steal somebody's currency. You wouldn't be able to control somebody with their currency because the way to control people is to incentivize them. So you and I, as members of our community or of the society in this new network, in this new world, would be allowed to say, hey, we see opportunities in the market or I need somebody to do my deck. we're not commanding somebody, you're providing an opportunity for somebody to do something productive and to earn more credit. And so it's an incentive structure rather than a control mechanism. At present, of course, money is used to command and control labor. The person with the money pays you, they get to tell you what to do. That's the rules. Here is the opposite. Anyone can do the labor and that person gets the reward. Anyone can join the co-op and be part of that network. They get the reward. And so it's just a matter of freedom and And dignity and liberty, I like to use the tagline, sovereignty, opportunity, and liberty. Sovereignty in that we're finally free. We get to be members of our community, our clubs, our co-ops, and everything that we're involved in, we have a voice digitally. We can vote or not. It's up to us. But we do get to participate. We do get to either contribute either you know volunteer for or not and so you're not you're not forced and you're not trapped you're not a citizen of just this country under these rules you know like you really get to to to express yourself grow learn and and and basically do what you want to do and live where you want to live uh under conditions of you know that you and your communities get to get to design where at present it's the complete opposite you know top down structure and so yeah that's basically creditism you know like the overall how we get there of course is a different conversation yeah kind of planning on right now I love it I love the idea the forward thinking the ability that you know one vote. It's almost like a direct democracy in a way in which every person is participating in a way that's meaningful, but it does like, how do you, there's a great book by Thomas Piketty called capital. And in that book, he goes back, like it's a tone, man. It's like this giant thing, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, but it's fascinating because it talks about human capital, regular capital. And his thesis is that capital is, the state of capital is for really wealthy and poverty. Like that's how it's always been through history. And he, he tracks it so far back to like the pirates and all this stuff. It's fascinating, but it seems that that is the way in which we operated forever, forever. I mean, there might be some spots where we tried some different things and whenever, whenever we get to a point where I know back in the founding of this country, there were different currencies being floated around it. People came in and put a put a stop on that. Like, how do you how do you institute it, though? These are beautiful ideas and I think they're fantastic. But the same way Yanis Varoufakis went to the finance ministry of Germany said, look, there's one thing you can you can't do is change your debt. He's like, what am I doing here then? How do you bring it? How do you bring change without rebellion? Does it all have to die? It seems to me that that's the only way for it all to die. And then you start over. So ideally, of course, we would like for there not to be a collapse, for there not to be a recession or depression. We want a stable system where it's producing and meeting needs. most people's needs right and that we could uh then you know upgrade and so that it can grow and meet more everyone's needs although that's you know wishful thinking it looks like it's going to be some chaos and potentially so okay so our plan for for the transition is is thus and so what we we're doing right now is we put together a team uh for all the decentralized pieces under the common plan umbrella. We have the decentralized credit system, which is really the crux. Without being able to design a new game, a new economic way of distributing currency that allows for people to contribute their labor and their resources in a cooperative, communal growth, real way, then what are you doing, right? We can have another revolution, flip the board over, restart the game, but it'll produce this inequality all over again. So not only do we need to kind of flip the board, but it's the game that we need to transition. So creditism is that. So we brought in together people for the ID protocols because you need to make sure that a person is a person and that people don't register and pretend to be a hundred people, right? That would destroy the network. So we have that. Then you need some type of a digital blockchain governance protocols, voting. We have that. And there's multiple organizations that also do that, but that's kind of well developed now. So that exists. And then of course, crypto and blockchain and smart contracts ethereum is great at basically unchaining the digital property of the world and so that is also beginning to get mapped out and so that exists and we have those partners and then of course we have the credit so our plan is essentially to produce a a a distributed or decentralized autonomous network some type of a a global member network where people join the network They get the new credit units. We're planning on calling the unit credit. Why not, right? That's what it was called in Star Wars, coincidentally, credits. A friend of mine told me that recently. I was like, oh, wow. I didn't really know. Anyway, so the person would join the network. They'll get their credits, blockchain, digital token. Then they would get more for signing credits. getting their ID, referring people to the network, signing treaties, you know, making declarations, you know, interacting with another. So they would essentially, you know, we would be building and they would be experimenting with these digital tools of governance, of property. And so they would be you know, filling in and building, mapping out all of those architectures. And so that the idea is, is to, if we're successful enough members join, then we can allow them to create federations also in Star Wars. Yeah. which is ironic, but okay. So they would create these federations. Now they have more members in their group. And so it would allow them, you know, for the Dow to issue a treasury to that particular group, they would have some funds, which they would be able to use to, you know, to upgrade their, their system. You know, maybe they could collateralize their property relations that they currently have in this game for the new game. So they, they can begin to use and, and, uh, the properties that they have towards communal purposes. And so ultimately, the hope is that once these decentralized tools are developed and fine-tuned and they work, then they can be adopted at a national level because it is at a national level that countries make the property and the credit rules. At present, of course, every country in the world that is sovereign, that has their own currency, must operate under the principles of the Bank of International Settlements. Those rules dictate credit creation for all banks. It doesn't matter where you are in the world. That's that structure. But a nation could opt out of that because they have their own credit creation. They can still play that game. They can still have, just like they do today, you have your own currency, you have your own imports and exports, and you have an exchange balance there. And you may have to have your counterparty's currency in order to trade with them. But ultimately, what you're trading with other nations is the stuff. It isn't really the currency, right? We're not getting money from Vietnam. We're getting clothes. We're getting cotton. We're getting their production, their materials. And then, of course, we're producing the money for free and winning that game. But unfortunately, our child of a president doesn't understand that that trade imbalances are actually good for America. What do we produce? We produce fake money and then we get more stuff. That's a good deal. You ask me, but they don't seem to get that part. So basically, that's the game plan. The idea is to build a network a global network of people who come together, join and basically build the digital tools, interact with these new tools and eventually transition from a debt based currency system to the new credit system. And so that's a little bit of a longer, you know, Transition, possibly, but it is, like, on your show, you know, you mentioned, you know, decentralized, Audrey Tang, and all these other countries that are already producing some of these, you know, tools. So it's not that much of a radical shift for these countries to take. America certainly will be one of the last. We're too big, right? And, of course, we're the reserve currency. So I don't see America leading this particular shift into a decentralized world. However, numerous countries can and will. And so they can do it. If they're self-sufficient in water, energy, and they have more exports than imports, they can do it. And that's the case for a lot of these smaller countries. So that's basically the game plan. That's where we're at right now. And we're hoping to ideally launch that member network sometime later this year. Sooner rather than later, but we can only go as fast as we can. I love it. I love it. And we see echoes of it, like you said, with some of the countries. I know El Salvador has been working on Bitcoin. Seems like they've done some pretty cool things. I've got some questions stacking up over here for you, Remzi. This one's coming to us from my friend Clint. He says, do you believe decentralization is the natural evolution of civilization or a rebellion against it? Oh, definitely natural. I mean, for me, in a word, it means freedom, right? What is decentralization? It means sovereignty. You know, you get choice making. And so freedom is the opportunity, the ability to make choices for oneself. Yeah. And so at present, we don't, we have, obviously, we're sovereign, right? We control ourselves. We make a lot of choices, but there's a hell of a lot that the system is already choosing for us and limited us. And so, you know, a lot of people in the systems thinking world call it Moloch, meaning like it's this monster. Oh, that was a great paper. And we can't. And so and that's part of it's true. So it doesn't matter how rich or, you know, you are in this world. You the richer you are, the more options you are. have the more choices you have but you're still not completely free you're still limited and it gets to a certain point actually where if you become too rich or too famous it actually works in the opposite way now you're capturable now you know you're more vulnerable it's in that middle space in that gray space that you're super free but once you get to the extremes boy you know it's bad for Both. So, yeah, definitely. It's the long human project. And I think it's a notion of liberty that America is founded on. My definition of liberty, by the way, is that's what we're producing here. Not necessarily freedom, because freedom is a little bit too extreme. Liberty. equals freedom with responsibility. We live in society, right? I can't, some of my freedoms naturally must be limited, right? I can't be, if you increase Ramsey's freedom to a hundred percent, well, by definition, then you've decreased other people's freedoms because if Ramsey can do whatever he wants, well, then he's going to trample on other people's, you know, choices and options. If I can just, you know, steal and rape and kill whoever I want and have my maximum freedom, well, we can't have society there. But so what we really enjoy in life is liberty, that, you know, freedom with responsibility. That's the social contract that society has made and decentralization, one hundred percent fits that model and is that path. Yeah, I like that. It's a great answer. This one's coming to us from Desiree from Palm Desert. Thank you, Desiree. You're amazing. She says, is democracy failing or is it simply being outgrown by a more evolved form of collective intelligence? Well, I would say it's not failing because it doesn't exist. It's a false notion. I mean, think about it. In the biggest area of our lives, we don't have democracy, which is our jobs. We're not in a cooperative. These are not your colleagues. or right these are your co-workers uh you're you know somebody they're somebody's worker they're not even person they don't even get to make their own choices they have limited this is what you're going to do this one you're going to show up this is how you're going to dress this is how you're going to act this is how you're going to think this is how you're going to speak and and we and we have to fit that mold otherwise we lose that position right you know like noam chomsky famously said said to some you know some guy said to him You don't think that I believe what I believe? He's like, no, no, no, no. You do believe what you believe. It's exactly, it's because you believe what you believe that you are in the position that you're in. If you didn't believe what you believe, you wouldn't be in that position. Meaning like the ruling elite, like for example, like Biden, wouldn't have been in that position if he didn't believe what he believed. Because then they would never have chosen him as a puppet. Right, right. Same thing with Trump. All of them. well jump is a chaos pup is a perfect pup but he doesn't believe anything I don't know I think he believes I think that he believes that the idea of like the America first idea I don't I don't know enough to really thoroughly understand whether it could ever work or whatever. That's why I call them a child, though, because children are that me first. But without recognizing, wait a minute, you go beyond the me first. You go to weed, then the pie grows bigger. And now there's actually more for you. So if you just do me first, it could end up with, oh, crap. It got so extreme that the pie is actually smaller. It's actually not good for me either. And so that's the situation we're entering into right now. If we go down this me first path, well, it's only going to be a smaller pie. Yeah, I think what we've seen is a brilliant divide and conquer strategy by people in the highest positions. We've moved into this idea of scarcity, and I think we're going to move into a world of incredible austerity. That seems to me to be the game. I thought you were going to say abundance. I hope eventually we will, but I don't think we get there without austerity. I think the more people that get laid off from all these places, and there's going to be waves and waves of them, the more people you get that wake up and be like, wait a minute. wait a minute, this is all bullshit. You kind of have to have that stripping away of everything you believe before you can grow into something different and realize what you're giving your life force to. It's crazy to think about how much you learn. Also, I'll give you an example of... I want to underscore what you said about people going to work for a place that doesn't really value them. I used a UPS driver for a long time. And for... There's always these shootings. Like, it happens all the time. And I challenge people to go look at the newspaper and look at UPS shootings. Like, it happens all the time. And I remember... I remember being at work multiple times where guys were like, I'm going to kill you. He would just go out and tell me he was going to murder him. And we have metal detectors, barbed wire fences. And for me, it got to this point where I realized when I would come to work, I'd have to walk through two barbed wire fences, a metal detector. They'd pull out everything out of my bag. I had been here for twenty years. I'm like, what are you doing? I give my life to this company, and you treat me like a criminal? You think I'm going to shoot you? That kind of makes me want to have zero respect for these people. I get why they had to do it. The insurance is involved. All these things are involved. There's real threats happening. But what dawned on me is, where am I working? And I know the guy that wanted to kill the managers, you know, he's like, dude, that guy was having a rough time, man. Like maybe they should have backed off a little bit on that guy instead of like trying to pressure him even more. But it wasn't the management team, but it was like the higher ups. Like this guy's not productive, man. You're going to lose your job if you don't force this guy to do more. And it just flowed downhill until it got to a guy that couldn't take it anymore. He's having problems at home. Kids wasn't, you know, he was never there. Like the guy was just losing it. And it's always interesting to me, too, to hear the way in which the story spun by the HR team. A guy came in and killed all his coworkers. Wait a minute. Now, how come when I'm in here, I have to call this guy my manager, but when he gets shot, you call him your coworker? You know what I mean? Like, they spin it into this way of, like, making it look as if, oh, this guy was a friend. Wait a minute. That was not what happened. Even worse, at UPS, like, so many suicides. I know a guy that jumped off a bridge, and the very next day, everybody came in, and they awarded people for safety. You guys are doing a great job. You know, and it was just this radical campaign of, like, trying to push this guy's suicide to the side. And it's like... oh my gosh, this is not happening just at UPS or FedEx or the post office. This is happening to people all around the world because they hate the position they're in. And it's because of the money. It's because of this idea of competition where, and I love competition. I think it's a good thing. However, when all the spoils go to the people at the very top, Man, that's a recipe for disaster. And I hate to see my friends, my family, any other human being going out and doing something that people treat them for less than who they are. So I'm so for all these systems. I know that's kind of a long rant, but you're right. If I can just say, I'm transitioning a little bit here. I'm a big fan of credit. I see credit as a secret in the world. When we discovered credit, what did it do? It came to America. And they began creating their own currency based on credit. They had a pile of gold and they say, hey, let's pretend like we can create more. So they issue these bills of paper from the bank. And what did that allow them to do? It allowed them to use that newly created money to invest in labor, to Bring in resources and begin production. And so what do you end up with? You end up with more. You end up with the pie. And so the credit is the key. It's like food for a human. If you feed a person, if you invest the food and the resource into a person, what do you get? You get a productive human. You get somebody who's capable. And so same thing in the market. When you invest in the market, the market requires the food in the market is the currency. And what it requires, of course, is the labor and the stuff. But when you combine that, you get the pie. So without the credit, what do you get? You don't get that. You don't get the combination of the labor and the stuff. And it just lays stagnant. It doesn't activate and produce. And so credit is this beautiful invention that basically produces. But So I don't know if your readers or your listeners may know this fact, but almost all the wars are always about credit, money, one sort of another, control of who gets control of credit. And it was in, was it like, something like that, where the UK British Crown banned the colonists from producing from the banks from producing their own notes and they at that point they were forced to use the crowns silver and gold and that's in limited supply and that's that means that you can't invest that means you can't create more to now begin the productive process and they went fallow they you know their economies went down they started to lose money more the money got you know funneled over to the crown. And so that's when the colonists said, we've had enough of this shit. That's when they wrote the Declaration of Independence. And France was the enemy of the UK, said, hey, maybe we can find a position of power here. They loaned the colonists like a billion dollars of gold. Based on that gold, they created another bank in their own currency. Credit, as credit-based, they use that currency to basically provision themselves for the war and win the war. Without credit, there would be no America. The whole entire history of America is based on this notion of who gets to control the credit. And we've gone back and forth in our own country of having nationalized banks, right, where the government has the credit creation and where private banks have the credit creation. So if I can just explain to your listeners really quickly how this process works. It's actually very simple, right? Okay, so in America, we have the US dollar. Now, ignore for a moment the initial distribution of the dollar. Pretend, you know, whatever. It doesn't exist. So the way it works is that... federal reserve is the central bank of the of the country it is owned by america but it's controlled independently this is why they say it's independent and private and all that it has a checking account that it maintains it's its own record and and it has another account it also maintains and that's the u.s treasury checking account of america and those are the only accounts that it has really the checking accounts It has the U.S. 's checking account, the Treasury, and its own checking account for its operations. Because think of the Federal Reserve as a company. That's essentially what it is. It has employees and it has income. We'll talk about that in a moment. But at the end of the year, though, whatever profit that entity, the Federal Reserve, has made actually goes into the Treasury. So that's the structure there. Okay. Now, because of the way that they've written the rules, remember, the banks wrote these rules. Because they wrote these rules, they specifically don't allow the country, America, to directly create the credit as a fiat. So they're clear on that. And so they create it in a complicated manner that they call a bond. But in reality, what it is, is that you can view it this way. From an accounting perspective, what is actually technically happening is that when that bond is created, it actually starts with fiat. Fiat, the dollar, is created. It's used to... Think of the bond as a box. The money is put into the box. So now that new fiat money was created, that box is then given to the treasury. Then the treasury, not to get into the legal details, but essentially it's sold. Yes, they have these... You know, five banks who were, I forgot, they're called the primary dealers, whatever they are. They sell the bonds, keep a little piece, but then they give the money to the Treasury. So the money that the fiat was created to put into the bond, when that bond is sold, that fiat then is taken out and deposited into the Treasury. That's how the government is financed, through the creation of the bonds. They sell the bonds. That money then flows into the treasury. All the money that is created, the so-called national debt, is fiat money. That's the base money circulating in our game right now. So the total bonds are the total fiat, plus whatever original fiat they may have created. That's how much exists as base money. That's the real money of the game. Now, on top of that, you have private banks. Now, people don't know what private banks are. They're two separate businesses, okay? So for simplicity's sake, I'm going to call them a transactional, what everyone thinks of a bank. It's like FinTech. Think of PayPal or Venmo. We all use that, right? What is Venmo? okay that portion of the bank keeps records here's how much this customer has here's how much they have and they just handle transactions and they move the money around that's all it is and so the banking structure of the world and america is this complex scheme of various banks with various members and moving money around between the members and between the accounts and that whole thing is very complicated and there's lots of language there but in the end it's zero sum no money is being created money's just moving around that's it right so that's all you need to know about that part of banking But what separates a corporation or fintech from PayPal, Venmo, from an actual bank is this second feature of what a bank is. So what is a bank? So a bank is a private corporation that has investors. They have money. They take in this investor capital and then that base of capital, that's their bank capital. That's the money that's at risk of winning or losing, not the deposits. The deposits have nothing to do with this. Remember, those are just zero sum. They're just being shuffled back and forth. So based on this bank capital, the Bank of International Settlements, again, in Switzerland, central bank of central banks, they make these capital adequacy rules. And what they say is Because you have this a billion dollars, we're going to allow you to borrow interest-free credit to use up to thirty times how much bank capital you have to purchase assets. But because we're giving you this privilege of leverage, of free money, you can't just buy whatever you want. Otherwise, it would be massive advantage and you would win the game and the game wouldn't work. So you're restricted on what you can purchase. You can only purchase abstract securities like bonds, corporate bonds, treasury bonds, or contracts, loan contracts, auto loans, mortgages, credit cards, business loans, et cetera. But those are all collateralized. So there's no risk there. And so when a bank taps into the credit, what they're technically doing is they're borrowing free interest credit, and they put that on their liability side in their book. This is what's called double entry bookkeeping. They borrow the money for free, interest free, and they use it to purchase assets. And that's the whole entire, that's what a bank is ultimately. None of these other companies, Venmo, PayPal, they're not banks. They're fintech companies. They only manage customer accounts. And the reason they can do that is because all of their company accounts, think about Venmo, for example, when you transfer your money from your bank to Venmo, what you're doing is Venmo's depositing it into their bank account. It's going in a bank account. It's sitting there. So when members transfer money from one member to another, money never moves. It's sitting in that bank account. It's only the records that are changing, but the money never moves. That's why they're not banks. That's why they don't have credit creation power. The banks do. Those are different charters, different rules. They are the ones who ultimately create the credit. Now, here's what's interesting about that game. So the majority of the money ends up being credit because what happens is that what is the credit being used for? It's being used to purchase assets. That's the game that we're playing. Purchase assets for exchange value. And so they always go up in price. It ends up increasing the value of stocks. That's where people end up putting the money into stocks. into companies and into houses, real estate, right? Those are the assets that they purchased. And this is why the amount of credit money in circulation in the world is constantly increasing the debts because the prices always go up. So if I have a mortgage of, you know, five hundred thousand on this house. Yeah. And price of the house doubles after five years. The next person that comes in is going to get a mortgage for eight hundred thousand. And so my five hundred thousand debt gets deleted. That money is now deleted from circulation, gets paid back. The credit that the bank borrowed on their books is deleted. It's no longer in existence, but a new one shows up. Another eight hundred thousand that they just borrowed goes on their liability side. And then, of course, on the asset side is the ownership of the loan contract. That's basically the system that we have. And so the banks, the power of money creation that the banks have is total, but it doesn't have to be that way. And so when people hear when you hear national debt, You should hear actually national savings. If you and I buy a bond, I have treasuries. If I buy treasuries, what that means is that I took my money. This is great. These guys are so freaking genius. I swear to God. Brilliant. So here's the thing. If I have a thousand dollars in my savings account at my bank, my bank is paying me interest on that. That's a losing proposition for them. That sucks for them. Yeah. Instead, I take that money and now I buy a government bond, treasury. And now where does my money go? It goes from my private bank to a savings account at the Federal Reserve. Now the Federal Reserve has to pay me interest, not the private bank. But the Federal Reserve member is America. So now the banks have a way of removing what they call excess reserves so that they don't have to pay interest on them. And now the government does. And they don't even need your money. It's not like they don't need your money. They could easily create fiat instead of as a bond, and just pay you back right now instantly. And that would be gone. But that wouldn't serve the functions of the banks in this whole credit creation game that is happening here. So basically, people just don't understand that credit exists and how it operates. This is how it operates. It's these guys under these conditions, under these rules, who get to dictate the terms. And they're always going to win. because of that leverage. Obviously, with that leverage comes danger too, right? In these times of economic uncertainty and chaos, if their losses are greater than their... If they start losing money, well, guess what happens? What happens is their bank capital, their investor capital goes down. But remember, their leverage is based on their bank capital. And so if your bank has a billion dollars of assets, excuse me, a bank capital, but you have thirty billion of assets that you've purchased, loan contracts and bonds, then you're at the maximum. But what happens if your bank capital, if you have a loss from the market and people don't pay your loan, their loans back, they default on their mortgages or you incur some losses on your bonds like Silicon Valley Bank did. And now all of a sudden your bank capital dips now to eight hundred million. Well, guess what? Eight hundred million or thirty billion divided by eight hundred million is more than thirty times. You have too much assets. You're not following the international rules in order to get in accordance with the international rules. You have to sell assets. So who are you going to sell loan contracts and bonds to? Well, the only other people that buy those, majority at least for the loan contracts, it's other banks. But if all the banks are in the same boat as you and they all have to sell assets, who can they sell them to? Nobody. And this is what happened in two thousand eight. Well, guess who came and stepped in and did buy those assets? Federal Reserve. With what money? Fiat doesn't have any money. That's how they did it. And so that whole notion of quantitative easing, whose quantities did they ease? They eased the quantity of the bank capital to be in accordance with the capital adequacy rules of the Bank of International Settlements. That's all that was, that they purchased all the toxic losing assets, mortgages and other bonds from these banks to ease their capital adequacy rules so they can continue being a bank according to international rules. That's exactly what happened. And that's it. And so but but they use these kinds of confusing languages and they and they they don't want people to know for obvious reasons. If people knew that money is just manmade, then they would ask the obvious question. Well, then if it's manmade, can we distribute it more fairly? And the answer is yes, we can. And only because, especially today, because we have finally digital record keeping that blockchain represents, that's trustless, that we can trust, right? That can't be altered, that we know records are records, agreements are agreements, and they can't be related. And you can't just lie and pretend and steal and cheat and kill like you could in the past. And so all of these fundamental human nature, what they call game theoretical dynamics, I don't know if your listeners have heard of the prisoner's dilemma or the race to the bottom or the tragedy of the commons. All of those have to do with trust. you know it's a game that we're playing there's winners and losers and and and if I think that I can cheat to win then I will but but as soon as we have a trusted architecture where cheating and and truthfulness is all coded and guaranteed now all of a sudden we can overcome those game theoretical problems and finally trust one another to build a cooperative distributive decentralized world that was never possible all because of computers. It sounds crazy, but it's just reality. Humans, we're so wonderful, but unfortunately, the coordination problem without having a trusted record-keeping system, It never works. It never has. And so the whole history of humankind, if we think about it, has been what? Record keeping. It's all about records. The earliest writings are about what? Trade. Keeping records. Who did what and who gave what? And so record keeping, accounting, and all these systems that mankind, that we've been developing, have led to this period. And now it's up to us to finally take these tools and do what, they were meant to do which is free everyone decentralize everything that was absolutely brilliant well said well put out there I know we're coming up on an hour you got a few more minutes or you got a hard hour don't have time okay cool I did take the day off today you know it's um It was brilliant the way you put that out there. And I think that that's the foundation of Michael Saylor's quote that it's inevitable. That guy's a brilliant wordsmith. I love listening to the way in which that guy explains things. And he has these wonderful metaphors and analogies. But it does seem like we're at a point where... It's either fish or cut bait. That seems to be what's happening now on some level is this idea of international finance versus national finance. You could argue that's what happened in World War II is that you have these bankers. It seems to me what's happened over the last really blown up since two thousand eight is that the banks in the U.S. were like, we're not we don't want to pay these guys anymore. Like, wait a minute. Like these like you got these Jamie Dimon guys and like these these guys that are kind of national finance that are based in America. They're like, we don't want to give you any more money like you have to. I know we're not going to do it. I think that's sort of the foundation for some of this America first is like, look, let's just stop paying the banks over there. And like the euro is gone. Like that thing is trash. Like that thing is being held together with duct tape. And like, you know, I don't even know how it's surviving. But the dollar is still strong. Like what's wrong with that? What's wrong with just having the Internet or the national finance? Well, OK, so there's nothing wrong with it, of course. But you have to understand what that game is. What it does is it turns. OK, so if you're the Bank of International Settlements, right, these guys are the head. Ultimately, their wealth, by the way, isn't isn't just in the credit. Like they don't they don't just own the banks. Their money isn't just invested in some of these banks. It's actually invested in in it's already cashed out, so to speak. So their investments aren't in the bank capital. Their investments aren't in the bank deposits. That money is theirs. But that money is spread out. So they're secure. The banks may fail, but what the international currencies represent is an asset. they're competing against one another right so when you trade the dollar versus the euro the yen it's like trading silver gold or wheat and like these assets will have an exchange value and and they will heavily depend upon obviously supply and demand pressures right right same thing with currencies they're no different but what's unique about the global structure of currencies is that they typically work in tandem And so when America prints faster, so do the rest of the currencies to keep in balance. Because if America were to print faster, produce more currency, and then the others didn't, well, then their value, their currency would actually would hold. And the value of the dollar relative to theirs would actually get impacted and the exchange value would suffer because it's outpriced. Also, it's an asset. Right. And so but typically these guys are all coordinated. The whole entire structure of the world is coordinated. The global collapse of two thousand and eight affected every currency, every country the same. But the privilege that we have as America with our reserve currencies, even if we do print it faster than other countries, it's OK because we're there. Countries are forced to keep it. Because of the import-export balances, they have to keep a currency in which to execute these transactions. And that's, unfortunately for them, the base currency is the dollar. That's the reserve currency. So that's what they have to hold. But what happens if they change the rules? What happens if they say, you know what, fuck that. Why is the base currency a particular nation's sovereign currency? Why isn't it nobody's or the globe, a global currency? bank you know digital currency and that's my fear is that that's where they're going that that's the model that they're going to intentionally destroy america intentionally destroy the value of our economy and our dollar and say it's no longer stable enough to be the global reserve currency guys but they can do these kinds of things because I mean because they can I mean because this is how the world works like all of a sudden the group makes a decision and and they go with it and uh And who are we to stop them? We have no choice but to operate under their conditions. And so they are fast on track to do those kinds of things. And they have the perfect backdrop to keep us occupied and distracted, which is recessions and depressions and war. And that's the perfect opportunity for them to make that switch. So it almost feels like it's being engineered towards that. We can't let that happen. By the way, creditism. is a global currency now but there's a difference the difference is that is it has distribution uh you know um design where it's just decentralized and distributed equitably without centralized control versus the alternative which is what they're building which is centralized control of credit they get to determine whom they give it to under what conditions and so and it always be for ownership of stuff Again, for basically being able to extract value from the world without doing anything and power. And so I don't want that. I don't want a central power that is basically controlling the whole world. I would rather have a currency... And so some of your listeners may be hearing, oh, shit, it's global. There's only one. It sounds terrible. But it's like a coordinating system. Think of it like saying, OK, you know what? The whole world, we're all going to operate under the same principles of all driving on the left lane. Well, that's a coordinating system. There's nothing wrong with that. That allows us to not have to worry about that thing, right? Just go drive. You'll be safe. Don't worry about it. No one's going to drive on the opposite side because we all agreed this is what we're going to do. Same thing here with this currency. We all agreed this is how it's going to be distributed. You don't have to worry about it anymore. And it wouldn't be a tool of power and tool of control. And it doesn't have those, you know, so... If you tell people about some of these features on their own, it may sound dystopian. But in totality, when you look at the structure of what you're proposing, it truly is decentralized and it truly is designed meant to be free. It's designed not to be able to be even captured, to be, you know... dominated by one particular person or a group of people or a geography ever again and so it is the dream it's not a utopia of course there's no such thing we don't know what right we're going to produce we don't know how people are going to combine their labor and their resources and what that pie is going to look like we're not trying to dictate terms from the top down it's not central planning saying this is what the pie is going to be right no What we're saying is that we're going to invest in people. We have the possibility to free people by distributing these currency units and let them interact and let them compete fairly, but let them live and compete. God damn it. And I guarantee what they produce is going to amaze people. All of us, because when we combine that capacity with AI and all these other advanced capabilities of learning and creativity, man, we're at the threshold of a really beautiful world if we want. It's like, I mean, my only wish is that we did it earlier but now that we haven't let's do it as fast as we can and so if any of your listeners are out there who are uh we've Because this project now is going to be tokenized around this new credit token that we're talking about, there is an opportunity and a possibility for investors in the space if they were interested in being at the ground floor, there is that chance. Even though me personally, this project isn't about money, we're not trying to get rich here. Obviously, it's mission-driven. However, recognizing the world that we live in at present and for the time being, is is a win lose is a speculative game there is the possibility that you know the speculators can make some money uh here up front and they would be in a position you know in a privileged position in the new game if we're successful in transitioning so I love it I I wholeheartedly agree that the wave of creativity that can come if we're willing to have the courage to unleash it creates abundance. It's so hard. I feel like we've been conditioned for so long to live in a system that is rigged against you, that most people have zero trust in money. They have zero trust in institutions. They have zero trust that a government official is going to help them do something. And it's not true. Like there's awesome programs out there. I mean, it is true, but it isn't true. There are amazing programs out there for people that need help and we should have those. Definitely. Of course. Here's the thing, you know, I think, um, is that capitalism is a for-profit game, but humans are for purpose. Yeah, I love that. We're still going to do good things. We're still going to do... There's still a lot of people who are not playing the win-lose game of capitalism and losing in capitalism, but they're still winning other features. You know how they always use those, money doesn't buy happiness, this and that, blah, blah, blah, blah. And all that's true. It's true. So we have this... dichotomy we have this duality yes there's you know uh you know greedy people but there's also good people what creditism does this flips that switch and says it makes everything for purpose you do you why are you going to do things it is going to be for a purpose the the uh the profit then just becomes a bonus becomes like an extra but it comes because you did something you know for for for a purpose and your purposes are always going to be you know towards producing what you want and what you think the community wants and what's beneficial, productive, not these controlling and extractive, the for-profit model. And so that's what's interesting about the world today, that we have both. We have that. And that's what makes it possible to transition. If it was only for-profit, oh boy, it would be very difficult, I think, But we do have that duality. We have that hybrid. And so transitioning from that hybrid to full on for purpose is possible. And it can be made possible quicker by the control and realization of this credit of currency, distributing currency in a fair, never ending way. solves that problem of, you know, gets rid of that just for profit game that doesn't serve purposes. And so, yeah. I love it. I'm hopeful that we can see a future. And not only am I hopeful, but you can see it happening already. Like I'm part of an artist community on X and there's so many brilliant artists out there that are selling artwork for NFTs and making a living at it. And it's just this whole, you know, It's this whole different economy that's taking place, and it's happening right now. I see people making their way. They have kind of left, on some level, the system that they were born into and found this whole new ecosystem, this whole new economy, and they're thriving at it. It's amazing to see what is possible if we're willing to imagine and have the courage to try to put it out there. It's just the sheer... weight and the might of the people that are that that hold the dominant power like it's so hard on to see how that that comes down without without some form of critical or chaos or war like those people are not leaving without taking their ball you know what I mean by that Yeah, George, that's, I mean, that's it. The, you know, the, the clarity on the transition and how that's going to inspire is not, it's not, it's not something, it's not easy, man. It's like, uh, it's like, uh, when you begin the war, no, neither side, right. As much as your plans may be so advanced and, uh, and intimate and, uh, expanded they you don't know what is going to transpire and then things change constantly during during that you know right and so the same thing here I see this trend the transition is like is going to be like a war of sorts in that yeah we can make all the plans in the world that we want But are they going to come exactly to fruition? I mean, that's not how things work. That's not how you have to be reactive. We have to change. We have to adapt. But what is different about this particular moment is that your universe, the folks listening to the show, we're a part of this digital architecture, this new digital world. And so we can finally operate under principles of technology. purpose rather than the profit. And so that being said, we can produce different paths and different strategies that are both, that can sustain us. Even in this for-profit model, we can utilize those for-profit kind of circulation tools to circumnavigate and transition over to this system. So we're going to use that gain, use their value, use their assets And build over here. And so that's, it's not going to be easy, of course. Maybe it's already happening, though. You know, I just spoke about one community that I use. And, you know, if you just pan back and you look at what's happening with centralization, like, it seems that, like, take the US going into Afghanistan, like, that was a, that was... The largest military in the world got destroyed by a bunch of people that were fighting for their lives. That seems to me to be – not that I want the US military to lose to a different country or anything like that, but I'm just saying it's inspirational, and I think it serves an incredible purpose. thought experiment. When someone's fighting for their lives versus fighting for something that they don't really believe in, that they were lied to in, the person that's fighting for their life, that's fighting for their family is going to fight a hundred times harder. That's who wins. They're not going to stop. They're not going to stop, ever. That person might stop. Of course. At some point you go, what am I doing? Really? I'm doing this thing? That's not what I'm here for. I thought we were doing this. No, we lied to you. You're doing this. But that's the same thing with centralization. They've been lying to us for so long. People are finding alternative commerce. They're finding alternative ways. They're quiet quitting. They're walking out of their job. They're doing these things that starve the system that desperately needs them. And now that system that desperately needs them is like, Okay, let's get corporations to buy whole housing tracts. That'll be a great idea. But that's a sign of failure. That's a sign of the system failing. If the end result of that particular plan is that a small group of people are going to be able to capture more wealth for themselves, that's terrible. But likewise, you flip that on its head and you say, hey, within the network over here, now you've got a network of people who are going to capture all those resources under different reasons for different purposes and distribute that value. Now all of a sudden, you can win. No, I like what you said about the war. It doesn't matter how powerful these people are. But see, the thing is, too, that they can't shut the network down because their existing game depends upon the technology. You can't just turn off the computers. Because if you turn off the computers, they need to basically shut down the economy. But the economy is their source of power. And the other thing is, I don't actually be hesitant to even say this. Love it. But look, just as Silicon Valley Bank immediately disappeared because of capital flight, because of deposit flight, we can do the same thing. Because the banking international structure has specific rules on how much capital the banks and whatnot have to have, we can disrupt that. Through our simple stuff that doesn't hurt us, like, for example, taking our money out of the banks and maybe putting them into a different bank in a different region that isn't participating in that bullshit and crashing them, not paying our mortgages or student debts, all these things. We're not going to our jobs. All these people-powered protests of sorts can cause massive disruptions that they just physically, they just simply cannot, they wouldn't be able to deal with. And so they wouldn't be able to stop. Same thing with what you mentioned, the Wall Street apes in the beginning. It's kind of like that. You can't stop people that are coordinated and committed to doing something. How do you stop them? The only method would be to completely shut down the internet, but that's obviously not possible anymore. And so the amount of power that we hold as people when we combine together is greater than all their money and their armies put together will ever be. And so that's the goal. Does that mean that we're not going to have casualties? Oh, man, I don't know. I hope not. But yeah, it's possible that these guys play dirty. And so for the longest time, you know, I feared kind of going public and doing this kind of work because of that, you know, that notion. But that fear now is disappeared because I don't care anymore. Like you said, they're willing to die, and that's where I'm at as well. I'm willing to die for what I believe in, and I believe in freedom for people. I love that. I think so many of us do. I think everyone else does too. Yeah. I'm so tired of seeing my family, myself, my loved ones living a life of servitude to something that doesn't care about them at all. Not one bit. You're a number. You're employee number seven, seven, two, four, three. And you know what? When you don't work, I'll just put somebody else in there. I don't care if your kid died. I don't care if you're getting divorced. You're not productive. Like that's such an incredible catalyst for change. And I don't think I've, To me, it's unbelievable. It's happening right now. We just spoke about it. We don't know what's going to happen, how it's going to work, but we're in the midst of the change right now. We see the economy is changing. We see people walking away. I don't understand. Why are people over getting mad at Tesla when they could be at the banks? That seems organized to me. Hey, go be mad at that guy. This is the face of the problem. Go get with him. That's the guy. Maybe, but what about the banks, man? These guys, why are we all not collectively over there? hundred percent yeah like no they that's right they've got us fighting each other because because it's a win-lose game like yeah we're losing and so we end up having to choose sides that are going to be best for us in order to win in this win-lose game but once there's an alternative that's win-win uh and that that people do on board And they realize, wait a minute, now it's best for all of us. And now you're not longer my enemy anymore. They're the kind of enemy, the structural, centralized, dictatorial, concentrated power. That's the source of our grievances, not each other. But again, it comes down to game theory. It comes down to how I see the world. And at present, these are my only options. My path is either I join a team to win, or I lose. And until that new alternative comes around that gives the people that change, then unfortunately, it makes sense for them to be America first and nationalist because this is our team. I'm part of this team. So if the team wins, I win, or at least, maybe not, but at least I have a chance. But if my team loses, then I'll definitely lose. And so I get – all that makes sense, of course. But we have to overcome all that to realize that, hey, we can actually build a global coordinated structure where everyone is free, where we can – where it's finally based on the truth and openness and trust rather than conflict. That's the key. Competition, still going to be there. We're still going to be competing like mad because that's fun. As long as it's win-win. As long as it's in the end, everybody wins. It's like sports. You compete, you compete, and you lose. It's okay. You still won. You still, you know, there's lots that during that whole process, same thing here in creditism, you know, you're still going to compete. The co-ops are going to be competing to produce things, but that's okay. Everyone's going to be a winner because you're going to get paid for your labor. It's not like you're going to lose. There's no risks. Like today, you know, the entrepreneurs take a risk and they lose, you know, they lose all their money or whatever. That's unnecessary, you know. The plan can fail. The co-op can fail to achieve their mission. But why should the person suffer? Why should they have to lose their livelihood or whatnot just because they attempted to produce something valuable in the world that turned out not to be valuable? No, let's experiment. Let people be more entrepreneurial. So we need people to be creators and let them experiment. And so we live in exciting times. This is definitely a- This year is really critical, I think. And everyone going forward. In our house, I try to preach this mantra, which is create, don't consume. If you just do that, think about how much time people spend consuming media, whether you're doom scrolling or you're checking out. There's nothing wrong with it, but what if... For every hour you spent consuming, you spent creating. And just get a different app instead of like scrolling your news app or something like that. Why don't you get an art app and start making pictures or start doing something like that? And I believe that that simple act of putting creation over consuming will have incredible change in your life. And it helps open up your awareness. Like, hey, I made this thing. I wonder what else I can make. Hey, I made this. Now I made this business. Whoa, hey, people are buying this stuff. But when you shift from creating to consumption, You know, you shift from abundance to scarcity and it's a simple thing that everybody can do and you can do it right now. This podcast, you just start creating something. It doesn't matter what it is. It'd be silly. It can be something awesome. It can be something you've always dreamed of, but just take that first step towards creating it and watch where you end up. Like creation over consumption, I think is a powerful metaphor. What do you think on that? I agree. Oh, no, that's absolutely correct. This is exactly how we see creditism is that, you know, the proof of participation is allowing people to be creative. You get to decide, you get to be creative and you get to, you know, you earn credit, you earn more money. for your creativity and ultimately the market will determine whether or not it was valuable and if it was you gave them more credit and if it wasn't you know no harm you don't get any extra but at least you get to be you get to you get to participate you get yes create and and experiment and so And the more that we do that, the more that the market will discover what creativity actually is valuable. We're at present, we create blocks, right? We have creators, but the audience then can't consume it because they didn't give them the money. So the money has to come first. Get that thing out of the way. Let the person create, let the people consume, and then we can flow the currency and the reward, the credit, determine, you know, based on actual real creativity and real consumption, not these fake, you know, monetary blocks and limitations that we've placed in the marketplace, preventing some creators from being able to showcase their stuff or, you know, you know, you know, uh in marketing and promoting other creators who really are not even that good but for whatever reason because they get all this money and financing and then they get more eyeballs but the actual uh value of it you know it's like a um I I love the uh the website imdb the internet what is it uh international or internet movie database something like that uh where people can rate the movies it's kind of like that you know like let people access the creative uh outputs uh and then we can determine what was valuable or not and so that's the kind of structure that's the kind of world that we're trying to build is basically everyone is a creator everyone is is a is a person everyone is a contributor everyone's sovereign and and anyone can contribute whenever wherever they want and then based on that competition of contribution you can even get more and and it doesn't exclude anyone and it doesn't privilege anyone and no one's necessarily collecting anything and no one's commanding other people it's truly like you said you know it's that creative society Rimsie, I love it, man. I hope everybody takes a moment to go down to the show notes and check out the site. If you're curious, reach out to Rimsie yourself. All the information will be down there. And if you're curious about how you can help, look, there's spots open over there. And I hope everybody listening. Yeah. If you're listening to this podcast, you're on the team. Yeah. This is it. This is the moment. Yeah. So before I land the plane completely here, where can people find you? What do you have coming up? What are you excited about? Well, what we have coming up is the launch of our project, ultimate culmination of ten years of work, not just between me and my daughter and the people in Common Planet, but the people in other organizations, like I mentioned earlier, to build and launch this DAO. This is where we're at. So we have a a moment where this is all going to be come into place and and made real sometime this year um you know we're just at the beginning phases of combining all those groups together and and launching this you know new structure and so there's gonna be lots of changes our website's gonna be changing obviously because at present the website is designed for economists academics and and uh you know the political types it's really more uh uh you know informational and nerd it's not necessarily geared towards the average person to get them excited about what this is and what it represents for them. All that's going to come in time. I'm excited because I feel like all of this work that we've done over all these years is finally going to come into fruition. finally be introduced to the public and they'll be able to have their say and join and help us build this thing because it can only be built by a community. It's not a project that me or our little team even is going to necessarily build. We're just introducing it. The building is going to be everyone. I love it. Ladies and gentlemen, uh, Ramsey, hang on briefly afterwards, but to everybody within the sound of my voice, thanks for participating. Thanks for being here. Thank you for understanding that relationships are real currency. Check out Ramsey and creditivism. That's all we got. Ladies and gentlemen, hope you have a beautiful day. Aloha.