Ladies and gentlemen, it's Friday. I'm so stoked you guys are here, man. I hope the birds are singing. I hope the sun is shining. I hope the wind is just at your back. Ladies and gentlemen, today's guest doesn't just make music. He summons it. From the concrete cracks of rebellion and the sacred chaos of altered states, Joshua Moyer is that rare breed. Part street poet, part sonic alchemist, part underground prophet. He built, ladies and gentlemen, for so many people that have been checking out my podcast, this gentleman built the full soundtrack to the Psychedelic Science Art Challenge. He played every instrument, wrote every lyric, and bled every note like a sermon on the run. Guitar riffs like back alley prayers, handpan rhythms that echo in the bones. It was so incredible to me, and I'm so grateful for that. Also, I want to say that Joshua is just not here to perform. He's here to ignite. He walks with the ones who speak in flame, those born from womb, not womb. He doesn't ask permission from the institutions. He builds temples in the ruins they left behind. His art is rebellion. It's remembrance. It's resistance wrapped in melody. If you're looking for safe, skip this one, because if you're ready to rewire your sense and meet a man who turns suffering into symphony, welcome to this transmission joshua moyer thank you so much for being here today my friend how are you uh I'm good man I've never in my entire life had an intro like that um that is just like the most beautiful I'm gonna have you write every intro I ever have ever in my life that's miraculous uh that you came up with that that's so cool yeah well I had some help you know and I uh I know this man like I that's the way I see you man and I'm so grateful for the work that you're doing and I I want everybody within the sound of my voice to get to see what I see man and uh that's what I see brother so thank you Well, I really appreciate that. And, you know, the other day I was messaging you and I'm not, I'm not blowing smoke at all. You know, I think when I asked you about giving you some music, right. And I just sent you, I think I sent you the binaurals, right. And the chakra tone stuff. Yeah. But then, you know, you had mentioned like, Hey, do some electronic stuff for specifically for psychedelic science. Right. Right. And, um, I think, especially when you're like a creative person, you go through these ebbs and flows, right. you're not creative all the time, whatever. If someone tells you that they're full of crap, you have these ebbs and flows to it. And, you know, I think just you saying that has launched me back into this huge, like just cranky material out, you know, um, I had a similar situation a couple of years ago. I bought a new guitar and, um, not that the songs were in the guitar, but like, you know, I just bought it and it was just kind of that impetus to like just crank shit out, you know? Yeah. Because there's always like, there's so many, like so many songs that are in, different stages of completion and they're all like stuck in here and I feel like uh I have to get them out at some point you know and then but then I think what am I gonna do when they're all out you know what are you gonna do then I'm fucked after that and I got any more I'm like yeah then it's quiet then my ears then I'll be able to sleep at night my ears won't be like full of you know I'm like am I hearing that music outside my head or inside my head I'm not quite sure like you know, um, I do, but no, I, I really appreciate the challenge of it. And, um, I think they turned out cool, man. I think they turned out real cool. I, uh, yeah George thank you that's right I'm telling you man I really appreciate your writing George I wish you say a lot of the things that I think and I really wish like I had the bandwidth to put words down for it but I could never do it as eloquently as you especially you know some of these posts on LinkedIn like the the um the Jim Jones post oh my god don't get me started on Jim Jones like I am a cult like nerd I'm such a cult nerd man my like half my library of books is on like cult mentality and stuff like that I love it man me too and then there's the uh yeah the mk ultra post you know right it's right there man it's happening these are things I talk about all the time and like you know like next post is like time isn't real right then I'm then you'll have my whole like conversational textbook like whatever you know the conversations that alienate people and make them walk away, you know, but yeah, it's, it's really cool. I appreciate, I appreciate that you have, that you're able to verbalize that. It's pretty neat. You know, I appreciate it, man. I feel like, Our language attracts those that are like-minded, whether it's just the phraseology that you use, whether it's the poetic cadence you use, or whether it's the ideas that you talk about. I'm fascinated by cults. I'm fascinated by language. I'm fascinated by psychedelics. And for me, I sort of see this thing happening on some level where like, holy shit you know if if if history doesn't repeat but it rhymes like I can see on some level if you start you know you go back and you look at that book inside the canyon or um chaos that manson book all of a sudden you can kind of see like how the parts may have been moved into position and stuff like that and I see echoes of it today on some levels you know it's like I could see how that could happen you know especially when the the explosion of psychedelics and The well-intentioned ideas of people that want to help provide spirituality to someone who's been living a life without meaning. Whoa, that's a recipe for disaster right there, man. Do you see some of those echoes too, or what are your thoughts? No, I absolutely do. I think... We we live in a time and I blame social media, but whatever. No, we live in a time where there are so many people who think they have the right answer. Yeah. And that which is fine. And you you know, you feel confident in your viewpoint. That's fine. But we We're almost conditioned to follow somebody or something as people. And, you know, you look at these cults from the outside in and it's very textbook, each one, you know, especially if you like nerd out and look at them, you know, as separate entities. But it's always like preying on people who, like you said, are kind of hopeless and kind of really searching. And maybe at the end of their searching journey, they're like, man, I don't know what the hell to do. And you can almost see the writing on the wall. And I think that mentality is dangerous in our space, right in the psychedelic space. Because we are so you're so open to I've always said that psychos open the door right I know a lot of people have said that it's not just me but they don't it's neither a good or a bad thing the door is open regardless and if you are somebody who's sitting sitting with someone in a journey or you know they're deep in a psychedelic experience and if you have any ego or bias at the forefront, right? You're going to kind of skew that person's experience and you're, and afterwards you're going to skew their integration. Um, and I think that's what we're losing right now is that historical shamanic, like walking alongside you type of thing, instead of telling you what to do, walking alongside you. Um, and, uh, I think I hope things go in the right direction. I don't know that they're going to, but I really hope I have faith that they will. But. It's interesting to see and kind of look on the periphery of like because I do social media for a living, I have for many years and like the more and more I do it professionally, the less and less I do it personally. You know, I have to draw back a little bit and just be a casual observer in the background. And I'm fascinated by people. I'm fascinated by what they think and what they believe. But, you know, everybody wants to be famous super quick. Right. Everybody wants to sell something. I don't know how old your little one is, but like my teenagers, like I don't think they want to be YouTube stars, but they're very like cognizant of the fact that they have friends who want to be like that's their career endeavor. Right. And we all want to monetize what we love and what we're good at. And I hate that word, monetize. But, you know, there's a lot of shortcuts being made across the board for everything, whether it be, you know, intellectual pursuits or religious pursuits or you know spiritual spiritual pursuits which I kind of I kind of put in different buckets you know um but if you have the wrong person who's leading the charge and they're doing it from a like a egocentric power hungry stance watch out man watch out yeah because you know jim jones wasn't even a pastor wasn't even a pastor wasn't he wasn't he just kind of found this niche and ran with it for a long time decades yeah yeah decades and that's the thing with with tying it back to cults like when you when you have these incidences that happen with cults you know um jim jones town or like waco or anything like that we feel like it's a short these these cults have been around for decades decades it's not a short thing. We only see the short part of it. Right. And that gets me into the whole like propaganda and what media were shown and stuff like that. So I have my, I'll put it on. Yeah. It's so interesting. Like there was a, when I lived in Hawaii, there's a really small Island off of Hawaii called Molokai. And I went out there and I got, it was very fortunate to get to spend a lot of time out there. And there was like this group of people there. And, like, I remember, like, they were really – like, I just remember meeting a couple of them. And I'm like, I got a really weird vibe from them. And so I asked one of the local guys I was working with. I'm like, hey, what's up with those people? And he's like, oh, I asked a cult, man. I'm like, the cult? He goes, yeah, yeah, that's the cult, man. Those guys are all in a cult, man. It's freaking crazy. And so, like, I went online, and, like, I saw – I looked up, like, there was a legitimate cult, man. And they had, like – it would do these incredible – like weird things where they would separate the kids from the family and then they would have the kid – like they would have the parents sit in a circle and their kids would rail against them and tell them how horrible they were and like why they were horrible people. I remember like reading some of the stuff that escaped that cult, like what they were doing. I was like, oh my gosh, that's so trippy to see. But it's so – on some level, it's so fascinating to see the way in which people in these altered culture and these altered states, or when these, these new things, they use language to fundamentally transform behavior outside of society. Like I can't get away from how fascinating that is the way they do that. They have these cultural norms and, It does lead into ideas like propaganda. All of a sudden, when you start realizing what happens in a cult, you become aware of the first four letters of culture. You go, oh my God, I'm in one too. I'm in one too. This whole thing we're doing is kind of culty. It's a trip, man. What are your thoughts on that? Is culture a cult? I think a hundred percent. Seriously, we are fed this paradigm. right? That that everything that we see and touch and feel and, and have and all the bullshit we have to put up with, that's just like our reality, you know? And, and it's, it's not, you know, I mean, first of all, we all have our own sense of, like, reality and what's what's happening around us. But I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. This past fall, you know, so I have five kids, two high schoolers, middle school, and two elementary. Five kids, man. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, it's a tribe. It's like Lord of the Rings at my house at any given time. There's like, if I hear the con show, I'm leaving. I'm locking the doors. But yeah, so this fall with all the election stuff going on, you know, of course, my children were aware of it. when asking a lot of questions about it. And I had to remind them over and over again, you know, the stories that you're hearing, and the advertisements you're hearing, you have to go back, where is that news source? What is that news sources bias? And ultimately, if you want to go really deep, like who owns that news company? Yeah, there's a lot of like, a lot of direction involved yes and you have to question where this is coming from I I always think of the timothy leary quote you know think for yourself and question reality that's kind of what I live by and I tried I try to you know teach my kids like you have to ask these questions yes um and you know on um caesar martin and I don't I can't remember his his co-host podcast about the new gary seal horse yeah yeah rick rick doblin was just on a couple weeks ago and he's he mentioned in his parenting journey teaching them the difference of what's legal and what's moral that's such a great one those those are not the same thing yeah in my mind um You know, we live in the Bible Belt. So there's a lot of like these things. There's a lot of these biases and these old school mentality that unfortunately, I think many, many people just are not going to break from ever. You know, I grew up in a family in Pennsylvania that, you know, we weren't the type of people who went to therapy or like who saw a counselor, right? And oftentimes, I think when people say that, they are most in need of it. Like, right. They're the most in need of counseling and therapy. And it's just ironic because now I'm in this counseling, clinical counseling master's program to be in the mental health field at forty five, you know, and just thinking, you know, back that I kind of broke free a little bit, you know, and change that paradigm and change the trajectory of, you know, where I'm headed and, you But yeah, culture is a cult. One hundred percent. One hundred percent. We we only we only get the information that people want us to get. Yeah. And if you want, it's almost impossible like. To get the real story, I think I think, you know, we hear about things from across the world and do we really hear the whole story? Probably not. There's no way. So if we don't hear the whole story, how can we form an opinion or a viewpoint or a stance on how we feel about something? I mean, that's a rocky, that's a slippery slope, but... Yeah. I think it speaks volumes of the disconnection and the lack of meaning in our lives. Like how can't, like, I think we've all collectively got to a point where like, I can't, this is, this is probably bullshit. And I, what am I supposed to do with this? Like, that's probably not true or like even worse. Like that's definitely not true. So you just stop paying attention to it. And then with that comes the, you know, the, I can't trust these politicians. I can't trust this guy. I can't trust science. You know, like you start and then it's, it bleeds into everything. And like, a good example that I've noticed lately to Joshua is like the whole medical system. Like both of us have deep ties and love the world of psychedelics, but it's so strange to see the way in which science and medicine is trying to embrace it. All the language around it. You know, when I started thinking about science and medicine, the latest thing that comes to my mind is this idea of PTSD. And I'm like, I think my opinion, if anyone out there is listening to this and you deal with PTSD, you're wrong. Everybody, in my opinion, in the world of PTSD is doing it wrong for the main reason they call it PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. As soon as we give someone a label, as soon as I say, you, Joshua, you have a disorder, All of a sudden, I've taken all this responsibility, I've slapped it on you, and I have given you a disorder. I've given you a label that is almost impossible to climb out of it. But not only is it impossible to climb out of, I'm going to build an industry around it so that you can always go to these people and stay in your disorder. Like what if it was called post-traumatic growth opportunity? What if we treated it like a rite of passage like it is? What if we built institutions around a post-traumatic growth opportunity that fundamentally changes the landscape of how we get out of it? What's acceptable? What's not acceptable? But it brings me back to the idea of the language, much like the cults that we talked about early, much like we talked about culture, the language in medicine, the language in our lives traps us into these small minded ideas, man. Is that a bridge too far? No, I don't think so. And actually, in a clinical sense, I believe, I don't know if it'll be in the DSM-VI or if it's not in the DSM-TR-V, but they've changed it to post-traumatic stress syndrome. It's still a syndrome. It used to be shell shocked. It used to be this. It's still an illness. And, you know, I have a really deep, deep heart for veterans. Actually, that's what my clinical counseling degree is in is specifically on the veteran military veterans and trauma informed counseling. So that's what my degree is going to be. And so, you know, it's what's interesting to me is. Yeah. Like to your point, you used to be shell shocked. And then after that, it was called for syndrome or something like that. Yep. Yep. And like PTSD wasn't even a thing until. I think was the way in the definition was made. Um, and I think at least for, and, and, you know, first of all, I think we get stuck to your point. We get stuck in this box. That is a military thing is a veteran thing. Everyone can get, everyone can have PTSD. We all have shit. Right. Yeah. And some of us had deeper shit than others. Um, yeah, seriously. But, um, I think if you look back on the history of warfare, stick with me. Yeah. I'm with you, man. I got you. But, um, you know, going all the way back warfare was a battle-based scenario you would say okay we're gonna meet on this battlefield we're gonna kick each other's asses we're gonna take some time recoup and then we're gonna have another battle here here here um and that was kind of the case more or less for uh you know, our modern history. And then you get to Vietnam where it's a guerrilla warfare style. These men are on twenty four seven. Right. They never get a break mentally, physically. You know, they are they're fighting people that they can't see, number one, and that it's really hard to identify who their allies are and who their opponents are. um and then you get you know you can get deeper into it of the whole uh the whole agent orange thing yeah you know where where they were spraying agent orange and when the tanks were empty they filled with water and that's what the guys were showering in I mean forget about it who thinks this is a good idea uh and then you add in the whole drug component that was so huge in vietnam um And then these men who were, they were fighting for what they thought was right, regardless of what we think in the government or what we think the prerogative of the ruling powers were. These men and women, of course, I don't mean to exclude, but they were fighting for what they personally thought was right. And then they come home and they're just shit on. My father, he left home the day after he graduated high school. severely abused as a child just all his whole life um left home hitchhiked to colorado and enlisted in the army this man did two tours as a sniper in or a sharpshooter in the army he was home by he's years old he had done this and then he comes home and people are just like treating him like yeah I mean when I was I was a mess yeah I was in college I was partying I was you know doing my thing like I can't it's I can't imagine um and and um and speaking about cults and culture there is such a closed system of culture in the military as well I think that's what makes it very hard for these men to to seek help or even to admit that they have a problem um because there's such a culture of you know suck it up buttercup in in in military life um and I think you're right I think these people definitely need help but I don't know that pigeonholing them into a box is is going to help um I do think in our space we're seeing some really good progressions with the with the um you know, the MDMA therapy for PTSD and psilocybin and stuff like that. We had a rough year last year, right? Yeah. It was a rough end of the year. I hope that twenty twenty five will be better. But yeah, I just this is something I mean, I talk about it all the time. My whole counseling thing is on that and my whole my long view of of. What I want to do personally is is more from a whether it's clinic you know legit clinical counseling which is kind of an old-school stuffy mentality right but I have this concept of you know you don't need to counsel someone in four walls especially like yeah I as a man I would rather like sit around a campfire smoke some cigars and have a have a session like that Right. Yeah. Or like or go hiking and have a session like you can legitimately have a talk therapy session. A better one. Why does it have to be? Precisely. Why does that have to be in four walls? You know, I just adopted this German shepherd for Christmas and like my goal is to have him. He's just going to be the office dog. You want to pet the dog while you're talking? Go for it. You don't. Fine. He'll sit with me. You know, and there's something about that tactile disconnect. Yeah, breaks you free for a momentary time of that hardwired bullshit that you have in your head, which is exactly what as we know, psychedelics do. They disconnect you from that hardwired bullshit for a period of time. And the problem with anything, and I think the problem that we're starting to see in our space is, is the importance of integration afterwards. Um, because you can have a transformative experience, but if you cannot connect it to your daily life and all the, that you cannot connect it to trying to unwire or dismantle some of that bullshit, it's for not, it's wonderful that you had a great experience like that, but if it doesn't help you with your daily life, what, why'd you do it? Yeah, it's a great point. It's a really great point. And I, the terminology though, like I just, on, on my darker days, I think about the way in which we build institutions around disease. Like we're always studying sickness instead of studying wellness. And it creates a sort of victim mentality. It creates this weakness and we, you know, and it, it just, I don't, I don't see it. If you're not working outside the box, you're trapped inside the box. If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu. And I see that happening all the time. I'm going to get some of these comments right here. Lighter Horn, my brother, thank you so much for being here. He says, the sole choosing difficult experiences to be of service to others is not a popular concept in mainstream. This is why I love you, Lighter, man. It's a great point, man. Really is. Yeah. Nico, she says, I totally agree that pathologizing our experiences can sometimes keep us stuck in a limiting narrative. But in some cases, naming what we're struggling with can also feel empowering and validating. The real issue, in my opinion, is that nowadays we label everything as trauma or PTSD, and we're losing the reality or we're losing the ability to distinguish between healthy levels of stress or friction and genuinely debilitating experiences. Nico, I think that's a brilliant point. I think that we're also losing resilience. I think that we're losing the ability for us to stand on our own and realize that what we're going through is necessary. I see it in the psychedelic space where, you know, you can become a guide or you can become this or that without really breaking. I think that the world, I think PTSD stress, like it's all here for a reason. Like if you go through some really hard shit, like That is what qualifies you to help someone else. If you can come through something and make it through, maybe you lose your family. Maybe you lose your house. Maybe you lose your job. But on the other side of that, you have been ordained as someone that has experience, understands the language of experience, and now can help someone move through. Joshua, what are your thoughts on what Nico's saying over here about pathologizing experiences but being able to name them as well? First of all, Niko's awesome. You should have her on sometime. Niko, I'll reach out to you. She's really cool. She sounds like it. Yeah, I think that's a brilliant point. Labeling people puts them in a box. You're right. And telling them that they're sick, then they're going to believe that they're sick. Telling them. And you know, it really does come down to the fact of that. We work so hard on healing the sick, but we don't work at all on keeping people well in the first place. It's so crazy. Yeah. I mean, like if we focus more on, you know, healthy things, would you want to get sick in the first place? You know, um, but there's money in this, in people being sick. That's the whole, that's it. That's it. We don't, you, you don't have to say anything else, right? There's money in the cure. There's money in the patch, not in the cure. Well, you're right. You're right. The patch that holds, holds the dam at bay, a little like little cement. Yeah. There's money in that. You're in the dyke. Yeah, exactly. Um, no, I, I think you're right. And, uh, It's just, the whole thing fascinates me. Me too. But yeah, it's interesting. It's where I, this is where I think on some level, what really bothers me about the psychedelic space. When I start looking at like some of the, the whole, the way the whole maps organization seems to be moving on some level is that like, okay, we have to figure out a way to monetize this. We need to make money. And then, you know, you start getting politicians involved and there's talk of legalization, but the idea of decriminalization has kind of moved off the map and And I don't know how to do it, but what I fear is this idea of the language being built around something that I think is sacred. You know, and if can you commoditize something sacred? I don't think it like I don't think it's a good idea to draw Mohammed. And those that do it are going to end up paying a pretty big price for it. On some level, commoditizing psychedelics to me is the same thing. It's like here's this thing that's a birthright that has been around. And if you have the courage to do it, you can do it alone and you can have radical transformation. But then people start popping up like, no, no, no, no, that's not it, George. Listen. If you give me ten grand, I'll tell you the secret. But you got to give me ten grand first. And I'll make you a guide. And you'll come down and you'll meet Moon Panther. It's going to be amazing. But it's cost ten grand, man. You got to figure it. And then people that want to believe, people that are noble and have this intention and are maybe being called to be something bigger than themselves, they're at the edge of cracking. They're beginning to move around in their chrysalis. And people are like, we're going to break you out of this chrysalis. But you don't understand if you break a butterfly out of a chrysalis, you kill it. People need time to suffer. And psychedelics can be the catalyst to help you become the very best version of yourself. But it's not going to be easy. And no one can do it for you. And this gets us all the way back full circle to medicine pathologizing things. So I don't know. That's kind of a shot way out in the dark back there. But what are your thoughts on some of the things I was talking about, the direction of maps and maybe the medicalization of psychedelics? I think we're in a little bit of a stuck place because I think that in order to legitimize, we need to medicalize. I'm going to write that down. Listen to that. It's hard because like, yeah, you're right. If we don't, and I don't know that I hate to say it, but things are so structured that I don't know that we have another choice. And I hate to say it that way, but I do. I mean, I think that, um, the only way that we're not going to be thought of as like hippies who do drugs is if it makes its way into legitimate medical culture. And I, I, I wonder, is that the way in? And then we'll fix the way they think about it? Are we going to be able to fix the way they think about it? Or is it okay being in the underground? I don't have the right answer. Because I do worry about there's a lot of salesy stuff going on in our space. And I'm not a salesman. I've never been a salesman. But I feel that You're right. I think people can get taken advantage of. Yeah, good people. The people that want to change. People that are coming to terms with their suffering. Like, holy shit, I could do something about this. But you take away that. You take away the pain. You take away the catalyst for change. And I know it's hard. I don't want people to be in pain. But I think that on some level, the suffering is what drives the change, man. And you can't have the real change if you're not allowed to really hit rock bottom. What's the quote? You can only take someone as far as you've gone yourself. something like that. That's beautiful. That's not mine. That's not mine. But I do agree. I think that, that unless you have gone to your darkest place, you cannot take someone to their, anywhere. Yeah. You know, and I think that, I think that was a lot of the history of shamanism. Like these people lived on the periphery of society. You know, they were not like the famous guy talking on the, on the soapbox all the time. They, you know, and they usually had a very sick childhood historically. So, um, And it wasn't something that they chose or they woke up one day. We're like, okay, you know what? I am a spiritual healer now. And I am going to teach you my ways of spiritual healing. And you're going to pay me and all this stuff. It was hard, man. It was hard. And everything we do now is to just make things as easy and as dumb. Everything is dumbed down as dumbed down as possible. Yep. Because people who think for themselves are dangerous. Yeah, without a doubt. If you're a free thinker, it's dangerous. You're questioning authority. You're a rebel rouser. You're a threat to the system. Hey, man, this guy's thinking for himself. What the hell is he doing? Someone shut that guy up. You know what I mean? A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. I think so. think that's gonna be the you know I when I look at psychedelics I kind of see it sometimes like maybe it is that Trojan horse that we talked about maybe it infiltrates into the system and then people start realizing hey this stuff's kind of lame maybe I can make some changes over here I think that was kind of Huxley's idea of you know maybe on some twisted level with brave new world like yeah you could infiltrate it and then you have the outsider that comes in and people begin to see maybe things are wrong on some level but Yeah, it's interesting to think about. We got another comment coming right in here for you. They say drugs and war. World War II was well known for meth-weighted, paranoid to the nth degree. Nam was known for giving heroin to soldiers. And now in the unofficial misinformation war, what substance do you think may be the next? Pharma, psychedelics? It's a great point. I think that a psychedelic can be used either for a... um, disassociate or a catalyst for change. And I would say a lot of people are, I think if you, the idea of micro dosing is sort of like a, a numbing feeling. I think a micro dose on some level allows you to deal with a life that is not worth living. And you go, man, I'm just not such an asshole. maybe I'm a dick. I just go back to work tomorrow. You know, it's like, it's, it disassociates on a really small level, but you kick that thing up to five or seven grams. You're like, Holy shit, I need to quit my job. I'm going to have to do it. There's nothing else I can do. I've got to leave, you know? So I think that he's, he or she, it doesn't say the, who it is just as LinkedIn user. But yeah, I think psychedelics are a huge part of this, this new oncoming onslaught of media war and people should be ready for it. What are your thoughts, Joshua? Yeah. Yeah. like I think we are on the cusp of a really great opportunity we just can't screw it up yeah we can't screw it up again because we don't want to have to go dark for another fifty years we'll all be dead right uh maybe not I mean I don't think I'm gonna live another fifty years but you probably will but um I'm not sure either man I don't know if I want him I know but um Where was I going with that? Oh, I think. We also have to worry about. again I say where people are getting their information from you know um excuse me in the in the you know in my class in the classroom when I'm talking about I'm sure my cohort of my professors get tired of me talking about psychedelics and whatever or whenever I'm introducing if someone asks me like hey what do you do and I'm like well I do a lot of different stuff but uh you know and whenever the the point of psychedelics come up I'm like You have to be aware of where you're getting this information from. Yep. Just like I mentioned with my kids with the election stuff. Because it's not all like pink cocaine and ketamine and celebrities dying. It's not. Yeah. You know, and then someone reads this one news article that came across their news feed on their phone and they form this opinion and it's solidified. So... again, I think we are like, I think we're rebounding from a tough year. Like, you know, Rick, Rick Doblin, again, in that same podcast, he said, you know, like a phoenix rising from the ashes. And that's why I sampled I sampled that quote of his and put it in that song, and call it the Phoenix. Because I think we are I think we're coming back. But again, like, if it's not treated correctly, It's going to get messed up again. And I think part of that, maybe the most important part of that is giving the medicine the respect it deserves. And giving the people who have given us this medicine the respect they deserve. The indigenous people. They have to be respected. They have to be part of the conversation. You know, we can't just take stuff from them and commoditize it. If we don't do that, we're going to screw it up. And I think that's part of the conversation. I think that's being talked about. There's some sessions being talked about at Psychedelic Science about respecting indigenous people. But we have to treat it right. You have to treat it with a respect. It's not kids play. We're not talking about like going to a party and eating mushrooms, right? It's real. It's serious. It's serious shit. you know, you do an Ibogaine session, you're, you're hooked up to an HE the whole time. So that's like hours for some people. Yeah. That's like the grandfather, right? Ayahuasca is the grandmother. Ibogaine is the grandfather. I believe Kim said that on her, on her podcast. I think she did. She's amazing, Kim. She's, she's great. She's great. But yeah, I hope we don't mess it up. on some level, whenever I start going down the rabbit hole, I'm like, look, it's, it's got an intelligence. It's an intelligence has been here long before us and it's doing what it needs to do. You know, it's maybe we're ready for it. Maybe we're not, but time will tell, you know, and I, I can't help. I don't know. I, on my darker days, I'm like, Oh, what's going on? And I'm like, I'm not that I'm so self-important. Michael, that ain't going to happen. Why do I think that's going to happen? You know, you start going down these roads of what can happen and you're like, God, just let it go. We've got Nico chiming in over here. Nico, thank you so much for being here. I can't wait to talk to you later. She says, there's a great study that Catherine Liu mentioned in a podcast showing that American veterans returning from the Vietnam War were significantly less resilient than Vietnamese soldiers, partly due to the disempowering narratives we tell ourselves about trauma and victimhood. I'll try to find it. That's what I'm talking about. Nico, it's a great thing. If you get that, let me know because I would love to read it as well. Yeah, it's it's resilience is something that you know, we all need to have in order to get through our time. Resilience might be the thing that we want to pass on to the next generation. But how do you have resilience if you don't have tragedy? You know, resilience is something that comes from overcoming tragedy. And the more we try to coddle, the more we give people diagnosis, the more we're not allowing them to walk through the flames of their own adversities. And there can be no resilience. Interesting to think about. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Adam. Adam, incredible SEO artist, incredible individual. Everybody knows Adam. Adam, thanks again for being here, man. He's an amazing individual, man. Everyone should check him out. He's got incredible content over on Substack. So go down and check out Adam on Substack. He says, science is the arbiter of the legit. he I like you know one of the reasons I love him is he's not afraid to write about stuff that is kind of taboo on some levels you know he's kind of taking it to task when it comes over there I think we need more of that science is the arbiter of the legit in the west for better or for worse joshua you want to take that one what are your thoughts Yeah, I agree. It's, it's hard. It's hard to know. I'm trying to, I'm trying to come up with something eloquent. Um, it's hard to disagree with when the science comes out. It's, it's almost impossible to fight the narrative. Um, it's kind of like the whole, the, um, with Graham Hancock questioning, you know, uh, the paradigm of archeology. Yeah. You know, um, Because he came with new findings and whatnot. And people are like, no, no, no. This is right. You're wrong. Okay. I have this right here. I figured this out. It's right here. No, no, no. You're wrong. Get out. But I have it. It's right here. What the hell? Part of it is we're not meant to fight every battle either. You have to pick and choose your battles. Yeah. And you, I I'm a worrier. Like I worry about everything, but at the end of the day, you should really only be worrying about the things that you can change. Yeah. You know, there's big stuff that we personally can't, you know, you can't just, change but there's little stuff there's a lot of little stuff throughout your day that you can change and and you know do your best and put your best foot forward with yeah um you know little small victories add up to bigger ones yeah um you know it's like uh I got I got sober a couple years ago From alcohol. So I'm not in the program. So I guess you can't call it sober, but I quit drinking anyway. And like, like quitting an addiction is, is a, is a long line of small victories. Yeah. Right. Until it gets instilled in you, you know, you're, you're making victories every day. You're not drinking or every party you go to that. You're not, it's, it's, that's kind of the best analogy that I can come up with. So, and we need to celebrate our small victories. Yeah. But, you know, not everybody gets a ribbon. Not everybody gets a gold ribbon. Yeah. I think it brings up the idea of schools, too, on some level. Like, if you go to a school and you get a certificate... and no one fails, what does your certificate really mean? You know what I mean? Does everybody get a certificate? Let me get this straight. You give me ten grand and everybody gets a certificate. No one fails? Not one person fails? Then you're not really teaching anything. You're just pushing people through. There you go. Good job. Thank you. Check cleared. Okay, he's good. You come through. But I think that that also is a problem with resilience. Like you can't have resilience without resistance. And it comes back to the idea of filters and weak filters make weak leaders. Weak leaders lead people off of cliffs. Another point I would add to Adam Nunzio over here is that you know, is it science or is it company science? Science has been captured by the corporate structure the same way. Like if you look at the clinical trials, you know, Joshua said earlier, who funded that trial? Who's the person that owns the lab? Who's the doctor sponsored by like, you know, and you start getting to the point where like, ah, this is just, this is a guy with a ton of money that said, find this result and tell me smoking's good for me. Okay. Get on it guys. Let's go. But that's, and that's, I think that that's a, Here's another one for you, Joshua. How about this? So many brilliant young minds, PhDs in the world of psychedelics, but how many of them are writing theoretical footnotes for big pharma companies, man? The brilliant kids out there, what do they see but the opportunity to write a paper that can help a drug get patented, man? I feel like they're being captured as well. Is that unfair to say? No, I don't think so. But they also like... goes back to my point they are doing the noble work they're just not doing it for like unfortunately like they're doing what they think is best but at the end of the day you know the big the big people who have all the power write it write it off right or left you know um And that's tough. You know, it's tough, like to know that, you know, you can do all the work, but not necessarily have any say in it. You know? Yeah. I got hope for something new because I feel like the whole school system on some level, even if you rebuild the school system, you're still rebuilding the school system. It's not something that has been working for us. And if you're going to go down and pull all these teachers from this institution and set up something new – like you're just rebuilding a system that doesn't work on some level. There has to be a new way in order to create leaders or create students that are moving society forward instead of moving society into division. And like, I see so much, but I have hope for it. And I think, I think some of these young kids coming out of school are figuring it out. Like, you know, maybe I shouldn't be spending all my time writing for pharmaceutical papers or, or, You start seeing some of these journals that are just so corrupt. It costs so much money to publish in a prestigious journal, and for what? Who are these crusty old gatekeepers that don't really care about anything but themselves and how much power they have to let in a young girl be published? Lord knows what they got to do to do that. But let me, before I go too deep on that tangent here, let me get back to Nico. She says, that's so true. I even noticed myself shifting the way I talk about psychedelics and what they're for according to the person I'm talking to. And this is sort of what happens at a macro level too. Yeah, that's a brilliant point. But it also goes to show you, Nico, if you just talk to people in the way that is Nico-centric, that is Nico's language herself, you become the person that influences the conversation and they will change their language according to you. Joshua, what are your thoughts on what Nico's saying about language here? My dog was barking. Yeah, there we go. I think language and the words we use and the way we express ourselves is such an underrated component of the human experience. Yeah. But to Nico's point, I think we all live in different circles and I I do think you have to kind of edit yourself or think before you talk in different situations, right? You know, you have to pick and choose. Yeah. You know, I live in the South. I live in the deep South in the Bible Belt. Like, I have to choose what I talk about to people. You know, I can't... Is that because of what they'll think about you or what they might think about your kids or consequences? Part of it is like me having the preconceived notion that they have this hard and fast reality and viewpoint on certain things that is not going to change. And no matter what I say, like I'm just kind of wasting my breath talking about it. So sometimes I just keep my mouth shut about it. You know? Yeah. Sometimes if I'm in the mood to do it, I'll dig my heels in and be like, all right, we're going in. I'm going to argue you to the death. Like, you know, other times you just, you know, sometimes you find yourself in these situations where you're just like, I'm just not going to say anything. And maybe that's not the right way to look at it. Maybe you do. Maybe you need to be the person that speaks up. and says something, but that's not always, it's easy to say that, but it's not always easy to do it. Yeah. Rare. It's rarely easy to do it. And I think we do edit ourselves according to what we think, you know, and we're worried about what people think of us by the things we say. Yeah. Rick Rubin made a good point that if you make music, according to what you think people will like, it's not going to happen. If you make music that you like, then that's the point of it. Yeah. And yeah, I do. I do. I think we get stuck in this. Okay. Um, How am I gonna answer this question? I always like it. It makes me feel crazy pants But I think that you'll probably get it when you do these like psychological assessments Like if you if you're doing it getting a new job or whatnot in there They're asking you those silly questions to figure out your personality. Yeah, I all One hundred percent of the time going back probably till I was since I was a little kid. I'm like, okay, so Do I answer these questions? the way I feel or the way I am, or do I answer these questions in the way that I think they want me to answer them? You know, and, uh, oftentimes it's the latter. I'm like answering it. I'm like, okay, so this asked me this question, like, uh, okay. Yes. I'm a diligent work. You know, you think about how is this, how is this person going to, uh, take in this information? Um, which again it's not the way to take a test like that a cycle psychoanalysis says you want it yeah yeah so how is this person going to accept what I'm out my output so I see that dilemma everywhere, especially in the social media space. Everyone wants you to perform for the algorithm. Hey, do this short video. Here's the new keywords. Here's all this stuff. Perform for the algorithm. But really, those are the companies forcing you to act a certain way. And some people are like, listen, man, if I don't do this, then I don't get the views, I don't get that, and I don't get the monetization. But if you can answer the question the other way, like just perform, like the first off Rick Rubin's new book is awesome. And there's so much good advice in there, but he's right. Just, just do what you think is right. And you know what? You may never get monetized. You may never be this thing that you think you are in your mind to a whole bunch of people. But what if you did it for three? What if we had three awesome people that were like, that was freaking sick. I love that. That was so dope. And then you inspire that person and that person goes and does something like you'll never know how much of the stone and the calm body of water you are unless you have the willing to throw yourself into that pool. And so it's, I would answer, I would hope that everybody answers it. The question the other way, like get as creative as ridiculous as absurd and as fun and as meaningful as you can. You know, I, um, I hope people do it. Like if you think about your relationships, if you always did everything for your wife, the way she wanted it done, or if she always did for her husband, the way he wanted it done, that wouldn't be a very passionate relationship. You know, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to mess up, man. And you're going to, but you should stand up for yourself. I just, I think you have to answer that question in life. the latter like just you should be doing it the way you want to do it on some level to as much as you can here's a great piece yeah go ahead what do you got come on sean instant two reiki sessions on zoom no adam they didn't I'm sorry adam what is going on with people doing reiki sessions on zoom man is that is that even possible I mean can you do it I don't know I think you can have some nice talk therapy on zoom but I don't know what do you think over there joshua I I I don't know I I don't know enough about reiki to to uh to speak on it eloquently but I what I do know about it I don't think is available on zoom um talk therapy is is is okay on zoom, but you still, you miss out that, um, you miss out on that human connection. You miss out on being in the room with somebody you miss out on those like, uh, micro like attitudes and, and, and, uh, like the background, um, the background parts of a human, you know? Um, but, uh, Yeah, you do at some point have to do your own thing. You know, that's kind of like with this stuff, this music that I've been working on lately, this electronic stuff, the electronic stuff has always been my own thing. That's kind of like me in the zone, in the studio for hours, like by myself in the dark. That's always been my thing. And it's never been something I've kind of like pushed on or, you know, got out there. well well and see then that's the whole question did I not get it out there as well as I should or is it out there for for a reason I don't know but um just recently I'm kind of on an indefinite hiatus from playing live I used to gig all the time and and now I think I'm just kind of like I said in here doing this this is my this is my safe space and there's like some crazy shit coming out you know there's some crazy crazy stuff that's coming out right now this uh you know again the binaurals and the and the chakra tones and all that stuff and like dropping in like the shoe on resonance like the resonance of the earth the five twenty eight hertz you know um I was working on something for psyched out design awards and I didn't get it done in time but uh kind of mixing like a live sound therapy session with the hand pans and the didgeridoos and all the stuff but then also mixing in the binaurals as well yeah um and having this crazy huge transformative experience and then uh you know big subwoofers vibrating in the ground with like the five twenty eight or the four thirty two like whatever frequency yeah imagine that like you're you're in the space you're in community with other people you have these live singing bowls and and relaxing music but then you have like the the um silent disco part of it with some binaurals and the you know the sub the sub frequency dude you're you're a blast you blast off psychedelics or not I mean you know we don't always have to take psychedelics to have a transformative experience But I think there's something. Now, nobody steal my idea, by the way, because I haven't fully. Don't take that. I shouldn't have said that. But I do feel like there's something about that full spectrum envelopment of of synchronous frequencies and different frequencies. music to to kind of again disconnect you from that hard wiring because that's what we're trying to do at the end of the day we're trying to untangle all the bullshit that we've tangled up and tied in knots in our brain you know um and I and I think there's something I think there's something to that um there's something to the binaural it's I was I was just listening to them walking the dog before we got on here just to kind of get myself right you know um think there's something to it so it's interesting because betsy chiming in over here from oceanside she says do you believe certain frequencies carry memory or even prophecy that's wow that's fascinating thank you betsy it's a great question I don't know that certain frequencies carry memory but I do know I mean certain songs get stuck to a to a um feeling or emotion or a time like a a point in your life and every time you hear that song you are transported directly back to it yes so I think that the power of the music has a has a way of just connecting to that point in time and again you're just like it's like time it's like a time machine Yeah. You know, you can you can physically feel in the pit of your stomach. If you have a song that that really connected with you when you were going through the shit, you physically feel that in your like solar plexus. And maybe to Betsy's point, maybe that's maybe that's the chakra area. Maybe that that solar plexus chakra, maybe it is. But like you feel that and you feel that emotion. know and you like tear up I mean at least I do yeah I'm a very emotional person but like you know you go back you're right back to that feeling um you know I think of when I listen to like cream wheels of fire or like iron. I don't know if anyone knows iron butterfly that you should, you know, I think of laying on my parents like brown carpet in the basement with the giant nineteen seventies Panasonic speakers, the giant floor ones, you know? Yeah. Yeah. stereo on both sides of my head, I think of flipping through the album artwork and having that music on vinyl. And so every time I hear that, it just, boom, transfers me right back to there. And I think it's a beautiful thing, but it's also kind of like it can be a triggering thing too, depending on what, what that experience that's connected to, it can be a, a hard thing to, to, to deal with. Yeah. But it's the same kind of concept. Like when you're, when someone's at the club and like the DJ puts it on a song, like this is my jam. Like, you know, like it doesn't have to be a dark, dark spiral place that I think. Yeah. But, um, Speaking of downward spiral, I could draw, and I'm not a visual artist, I could draw the exact same like the moment that I saw the downward spiral album saw it I didn't even hear it yet when I saw it on my bed my dad had gotten it for me and I I see it picking it up and putting it in that that album was such a transformative experience for me that is etched in my brain forever and ever um that experience um and every time I put that album on I think like exactly, it's exactly burned in there. Note, you know, note for, I could probably sing you every line in that, in that every line of every track in that entire album. And that's etched, that's etched in that point in time too. So I think Betsy has a really good point. That's something I'd like to explore more. If she, certain frequencies hold on to that. I'd love to, I got to dig more into that for sure. Yeah, I can't help but see the coincidence between the grooves in a record and the grooves in your mindset. Like it's the same way you create neural pathways. Like you have these deep grooves that keep going back and forth. It's awesome. That's why vinyl is superior. Yeah, yeah. Spoken like a true generation Xer. That's why vinyl is superior, man. If you don't have that certain grit on the needle, it doesn't sound right. It doesn't sound right. I always add that to my tracks. I have like a certain sample that's like the vinyl shit and you, you can't really hear it. I don't think, but I literally probably put that in every track just cause I want that like graininess to it. Yeah. Especially doing so much electronic stuff. It kind of makes, it gives them a little bit of an organic in the back of your mind. You don't really hear it, but you hear it back here somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's a certain sort of grit. I like that term grittiness of it because you can hear it. You know what I mean? Like you're like, okay, this is real. This is not just a simulation. This is a real thing happening over here. Yeah, absolutely. I got some awesome music questions for you too, but let's get over here to some of these people that are chiming in. Danielle, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. She says, as far as education, I think there's something to be said for gaining experience versus a merit-based system. Everyone can pass for showing up, but the responsibility is on the educators to identify each student's gifts and talents. As far as language, it's a miracle that any of us communicate with any clarity and on the receiver end. A good communicator also communicates in a way so that your message can be best absorbed by the person receiving the message. That's medicine. Daniel, that is a beautiful thought. And I think it's really well said when it comes to the language of experience and the people that can really help you out are the people that actually have the experience in there. And then I would also add that the. It kind of reminds me of the classic education. You know, if you look back at like the Socratic method or you read some of the some of the old, old Greek books, it was like the student would come to these masters and they'd be like, who is this young, gifted woman in front of us and what are her gifts? And they would ask, tell me of your suffering, you know, tell me of your tragedy. Like, where is that in the education today? Like, because that seems to be the way in which we find people that are made to be certain things. It's like, tell me about your suffering. But what are your thoughts, Joshua, on what Danielle has to say over here? First of all, Danielle's a fascinating person. I'll tell you a story. Danielle, she and I went to college together, undergrad together and partied together. We ran in the same circle. I haven't seen her for twenty five years, probably. And it's fascinating because she's now an Ayurvedic. Danielle, I apologize if I mispronounce that, but she is an Ayurvedic practitioner and just a fascinating person. And it's it's interesting to me where, you know, you you know, a person at a certain snapshot of life. Right. And we are constantly changing. But When you, you know, just you have so much time in between, you meet a person here and then you meet a person there. It's like a totally different person. Right. But yeah, I think Daniel Daniel brings up a good point. We don't often curate the strengths of our students. And you know, anyone out there who has multiple children, you realize like they all have different strengths and pursuits. You can't like bucket them together. Like, okay, we're all going to go play baseball now. Like, well, you know, some of your kids may suck at baseball. You're not going to make them do it. You know, we're all going to go play music now. Like, no, you know, you, you have to, it's a responsibility as the educator or as the mentor, however you want to say it to get to know the student enough that you can find their gifts and curate their gifts and amplify them. Yeah. And the, and they're the things that they are not great at, you know, you bring them, you know, you balance it out. Like you, you amplify their gifts and you, you know, you kind of try to, help them with, with what, you know, they're not best at and, and figure out, and, you know, you have to figure out how to help them. Yeah. Right. And I just think that there's not that attention to detail and that time is not given these days. yeah so it's really well said I think so too I'm hopeful we can find a way to kind of get back to it maybe that's what psychedelics can bring is sort of a return to the tell me your tell me your stories about suffering tell me why you should be here the stories around the campfire sort of reestablish the relationship between the elders the next generation the rites of passage the ceremonies Nico, she says, yeah. Were you going to say something there, Joshua? I was just going to say that's what got me into this, in this counseling trajectory. Now, like I want to hear your story. Yeah. George, I want to hear your story. Like I want to hear people's story because we are all the, the, um, main character in our own story. Um, But if you don't hear this person's story, how are you going to have any sort of relationship? Or how are you going to be able to help them or teach them or educate them or what have you? You're just not going to be able to do anything to the fullest extent in your relationship, whatever that relationship is, if you don't hear this person's story. Because, again, our realities are all different from each other. We all have a different one. Even in your own household, I think one of the most important things is like if you have a sibling, as an example, you have two different upbringing. If you have, say you have a brother or sister, you have two different childhoods. You might've grown up in the same house. You might've grown up with the same parents, but you had two very different childhoods and you have to accept that and you have to realize that. So go ahead. I know Nico had another comment. Yeah, no, it's a brilliant point. It's a brilliant point. Someone was telling me about two twins the other day and they, one of them was like this incredibly successful individual and the, and the other one was in prison. And so there was a counselor or a documentary crew that went interviewed him and they go to the successful twin and they're like, man, it seems like you're doing really well for yourself. How did you get here? And the successful twin says, well, if you knew my father, then you would know. And then they go and they visit the guy in prison. He's all jacked up in a jail cell. And they're like, man, looks like things have been tough. How'd you get here? And he goes, well, if you knew my father, then you'd know. You know, it's like two different childhoods. Twins, but two completely different childhood who had two different lives. It's interesting to think about. So I'm glad you brought that up. Mm-hmm. Nico talking about earlier, we were talking about the ability to talk to people. And I think you had brought up living in the Bible Belt. She said, for me, it's a safety issue. I don't feel safe sharing my perspectives with certain more conservative crowds. I could see that. But the question is why? Why don't you feel safe telling those people? Are those people going to ridicule you? Maybe. Do you have a job where in fact that they could take your job away? Do they take your credibility away? There's real reasons to fear things. But I'm curious. I wonder maybe she could put that in the comments. Why is she afraid to share her perspectives with certain people? It's interesting to think about. Any thoughts on that one, Joshua? I think it's valid. Yeah, without a doubt. Oh, yeah. Because again, like, especially when we're talking about stuff that is still considered, you know, way out of the box. Yeah. People, people will make a snap judgment about it. You start talking about it like, okay, done. You know, I that's one of the things I love as a as a as a sober guy or a non-drinking guy. Like I love getting in arguments with people who have been drinking. I love it. It's like one of my favorite things to do. Why? Just because like especially talking about psychedelics or cannabis or whatever, because like, you know, they're chastising you for for being interested in that while they're like twelve beers deep. Like, really? Are you serious? Are you kidding me? Like, come on. It's hilarious. That's just kind of the perpetrator in me that kind of comes out. Of course. Yeah. I like to poke the bear. So, yeah. All right. Danielle, back over here again. Nico, I think it's wise to communicate your message to people who have the capacity to hear it. I feel like that's where momentum is built and where your message might come back around to actually hit the ears of those who were unsupportive and intolerant. It's a great point. And I think we've all had times where you've taken a chance and said something and it was received in a way that you didn't think possible from someone you were like, I could never believe that person did that. It's interesting, the masks that we wear, and sometimes we wear them so well that we... trick everybody around us on so many levels. But yeah, I think that your message resonates with the person it's supposed to. Sometimes it pushes away the people it's supposed to. It's a great point, Daniel. Thank you. And sometimes it's hard to speak up. Most of the time it is, but that's what makes it so powerful is because most people are thinking the same thing. Like I wish somebody would say something. How come no one's saying anything? And then the question is, why aren't you saying anything? Yeah. It's hard, man. There's a lot of ridicule. It can happen. No. And that's I commend back in August when they had after the FDA made a decision about MDMA and then they had the town hall, I guess, a week or two after that. And I commend each and every and I think most of them are veterans, but they did have an open an open microphone for some time. And I was glued to it. I was glued to it the whole afternoon. It's like three hours long. I commend each and every one of those people who got out there because they had the like you're saying they had the bravery and they just said, you know, F it. I'm going to say this. Yeah. And I think I think we, you know, wish we could be that brave sometimes and just fire it off, you know, but sometimes you can't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run. That's right. That's right. This one coming from the great Robert Sean Davis. Great podcast yesterday. Next level. I love this guy. Incredible. He says the polarities and conservative liberal matrix is often a false construct. There is a dimensional opportunity constantly present that allows for the observer to discover there is a pathway of nonentanglement through absolute love that is actually transformational. The separation melts away. Our bias and our perceptions are part of the overall challenge and game to discover exactly how much power love has on the collective field. Man, we got the best audience in the world over here. Robert, mind-blowing, man, always. I think I got a couple of new wrinkles in my brain. Just reading that. That's amazing. Yeah. They're all like that. And so eloquently put too. Yeah. That's yes. I'm going to have to sit. I'm going to have to sit with that for like, yeah, I'm going to sit with that. That's fascinating. you know, after the podcast over reach out to Robert, Sean Davis, I'll blow your mind. Like he's, um, just his life experiences alone. It's amazing to hear and listen and to talk to someone that has seen so much and been through so much. He's got, he's got some real lived experience that I don't know any, any other person that has. I'm so stoked, Robert. Thanks for being here, Adam, my brother. He says that Rick Rubin point is golden, man. Make art for you, not for your audience. Similar to Mark Manson, don't give a funk about what anyone else thinks about you. Not giving a single funk is a superpower, man. It's so true. It's so true. But you know what, Adam? It gets hard sometimes for people that like if you – Let's say you're comfortable. Let's say you're married, you got some kids, you got a job that you go to, you know, and you're making some money, but you're unhappy. I think people have to start figuring out what it is about their life that makes them happy and what's important to them. If you're working for the man, man, you got to give a lot of funks. You really got to get out there and get funky. And it's hard to separate those things. It's hard to speak up when you're getting a paycheck for something that maybe you don't want to do, man. I've seen it in my life and I've dealt with it. It's hard, but he's right. If you can figure out a way to believe wholeheartedly in yourself and do things right, I think you can live a better life. Your thoughts, Joshua? think you're both right I think adam's right adam's right in that that is the way we should do it but you're also right that's sometimes we don't have the capacity to do so yeah you know if you're um if you're in a corporate I just left my corporate gig october first congratulations or they told me to leave either way they told me to leave I don't know but um you know, you are often talk about being boxed in and holy crap. But, um, you, you, you just got to kind of shut up and do it, you know? Uh, exactly. That's what you're told to do sometimes for the pay, for the paycheck and stuff like that, you know? And, um, it's tough, especially when you have like responsibilities, you know, it's sometimes, sometimes you don't, you're not afforded that Liberty to be able to say, okay, I'm going to, I'm going from big air. I'm going to say it, you know, but, um, but, uh, it's what we should do and we should do more often. And maybe there's little ways that we can do it here and there that kind of build up to bigger ways to do it. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always loved it. I remember, uh, seeing the guys, you know, I worked at UPS for a long time and it was so bad in there that like, I remember there was people that committed suicide. I remember people going in and yelling at them. I was like, I'm going to kill you. And like, you know, and on some level you're as a driver, like I'm picking up what he's putting down over here, not condoning any of it, you know, but you're like, at least he said something, you know, like that guy got pushed to a point. And I just, I hope that people find themselves in a position every day where they're doing something they hate, man. I hope that, You find the courage to at least say something, to at least maybe begin moving to a path because that's such a horrible life to live. I did it for a lot of years, and I got to tell people out there, there's a better life for you. If you're feeling trapped, man, start saying something. Start doing something. Jen, she says, maybe we are getting spiritually lazy. Who knows? Maybe something like Reiki can be done over Zoom. But maybe the better question is, should it be? Yeah, it's interesting. The idea of being spiritually lazy is... I think it gets back to the point we were talking about earlier, Jen, where like we, we just make it so easy for people that there's no real resilience. And I don't know why, I guess, why couldn't it work over line? Like the placebo works, right? The placebo is probably one of the most profound things we have on the planet. It works a lot, man. So I guess if you believe something works, at least you're moving down the path of it, working, working on some level. What do you think, Joshua? Yeah. The power of, um, intention that's probably not the right word but if we believe something you're right if we believe something works that's a powerful thing yeah totally um if we believe we're we're healed you know that's a powerful thing yeah And by the way, all these people are like future podcast guests. Like all these people are amazing. Amazing people with like just ridiculously awesome stories to tell. So, you know, Jen and Daniel and all these people, like, you know, I think. Yeah. We're going to have to bring them on together. We need to start doing some round tables because I'd love to talk to everybody one-on-one, and maybe we can, but it would be cool to have this open discussion with all of us on screen and just people bouncing back, back, and forth. So everybody in here, be ready because I'm coming for you guys. I want you to come on and talk to all of us over here. Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Okay, now we got – we're back over here to Adam. He's chiming in over here on Jen. He says, you know what, Jen? I've met a few Reiki practitioners who work on Zoom. I'm not going to lie to you. At first, I thought it was total BS, but now the world is so weird. Who knows? Maybe it does work. I do know hospice uses Reiki, so the practice has gained legitimacy, albeit in person. Yeah, I think that there's something – I don't know, Ricky, whatever, but I do think that having the energy from one body being transferred to another body, I think that that's legitimate. You ever hold two magnets together? You hold the opposite polarities. You can totally feel it. And I think the same is true with different people's energies. You can... We all know energy vampires. We all know people we like to be around. So I think there's no doubt in my mind that there's a transference of energy. And I don't know if it works over the internet, but I think you can, on some level, get the felt presence of the other. I feel I'm connected to you, even though I'm not really next to you. I feel like we're really having an awesome conversation about things that are happening. So maybe we don't understand it. Maybe we don't thoroughly understand how energy transfers or communication works. yeah and adam if you're still listening I I think it's fascinating to bring up hospice because jen is actually a death doula so that would be a really cool conversation that'd be a really cool conversation for you two to have and I'm sure she could add some really good insight on that um and When you meet a kindred spirit, you can meet them over Zoom or not. Or you can meet them in person. They're still a kindred spirit to you. You know, especially I think of the psychedelic community first and foremost because we're spread all over the world. We're all over the place. Yeah. And the only way that we can really meet is like this. you know, I don't know how I'm going to get through psychedelic science. Cause there's so many people that I want to meet, you know? And I've worked, like I'm working, like I've, I've stuff to do, you know, like I'm going to be working and, and I think we're going to be doing some stuff afterwards, but it's like, I have a lot, I have so many people that I want to be like, I'm just gonna be like drinking coffee. I'm like, Oh, let's go for coffee. I'm going to have like, you know? So, but, but yeah, Yeah. You know, people, and maybe, maybe not. I feel like I'm particularly sensitive to people's energy. Like I know if someone's a good person, not a good person, that's not the way to put it, but I know if I have a vibe with a person pretty quickly, um, But I also know like if someone walks in the room, that's kind of bad news. I feel it. Like I don't even have to see it and feel it. There's a fascinating book and I can't remember the gentleman's name, but it's called The Art of Being Stared At. That's a really interesting read about kind of how our perception kind of goes out from our, like our mind is not our brain. Yeah. You're too, you know, The mind bigger entity than the brain itself. You know, and, and we all deal with energy from people in different ways. When I was until recently, I felt like I was energized by being in group big groups of people. I was filled, really energized. And now like, I'm kind of like exhausted by the whole thing. Cause I've done that. I've done that for so long, you know, and especially doing the music thing, like trying to pull energy out of people, not for my own validation, but really to them, you know, that's kind of the whole point of doing music. You want to like have a response, but, and now I'm just kind of over it. It's just like, like I'm, I'm at home most of the time with my dog. I'm okay. Um, but, uh, it's a real thing, you know? And, and I think we need to be aware of it. I think oftentimes, even if we get a bad vibe or a bad intuition from people, we don't necessarily listen to that. And if you don't listen to it, you can get in trouble depending on the situation. Um, I always say, if my dog doesn't like you, I don't like you. Sorry. Like if my dog's barking at you for some reason, I got nothing. I got nothing. I don't want to talk to you. Nope. So yeah, that's just me being silly, but you know, it's true. The energy we all kind of push, put out what we, you get to know someone before you hear a word out of their mouth, you know? And so. Yeah. Sometimes my thought process is they just hit a wall and they stop. I don't have like an eloquent ending. I just know. Boom. Sorry. So that's when the thought's done. Like that's when you know, it's done. Okay. Next one. Let's go. You know, it's, it's interesting to be aware of your thoughts and understand where they end, why they end. Could they have ended better? Did it end right? And you start trapping yourself. Like, did it end right? Should I keep, should I keep talking? Should I not say something like that's like, okay, stop. It's done. It's hard. It's hard to know. It is hard to know. And I am the worst at it. I will reanalyze the conversation. No, but like at like two in the morning, I'll be up like wondering what silly stuff I said on this podcast. Like, did I say that right? Should I have said this? You know, like I should have said this, you know, whatever, but what are you going to do about it? You know? But I think too, from a creative standpoint, Like, how do you know when something's done? If you're an artist painting a picture or you're sculpting a sculpture or you're making music, it doesn't matter. How do you know when it's done? Fascinating. I mean, I don't have an answer. I think in Rick Rubin's book, you know, he says something because I've thought about this exact same thing. And in the latest book that he says, he says, you know, if you're on a project, if you're creating something and there's three mistakes, it might not be ready. But if there's twelve mistakes, maybe it is. You know what I mean by that? If you're just analyzing it to the point where like, okay, that, that, that, okay, you're procrastinating. It's ready. If you're looking at every flaw, maybe it's ready. If it has three or four, you can fix them. But if it has ten, you're like, okay, maybe it's not. Maybe it is ready. I'm just... And the thing with when you do that, when you get stuck in that role, you never release it. And it could be your greatest piece, man, but you're so self-critical of it that you know it's not ready. And it won't be ready forever because you're staring at it too long. Let it go. You have to move it there. And sometimes you're just beating the hell out of it. You're just beating a dead horse. Yeah. Making it worse. You're right. It's done. The thing is done. And you're just like, You're like, oh, I got to fix this. I got to fix this. Like this reverb and this, this, this, this DB level is wrong. And you're like, like, and then you get to a point of diminishing, diminishing returns. Yep. Like you're screwing up more cause you're, you're fucking with it. Like leave it alone. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great point, man. What else do we got over here? Robert Sean Davis coming back. Hey, he says remote healing is a great example of different dimensional layers related to the relativity of the observer state at one level, easily dismissed at another. We may discover that focused love and shared intent can create miracles even at great distance. Limbic resonance and non-local correlation similar to quantum principle of particles at distant supernaturally inheriting adapted states. Trying to wrap your mind around that one, Joshua. Wow. I can't even begin. I don't know. That's amazing. I don't even know where to start with that. I'm like, I don't know. That's incredible. That's incredible. It is incredible. After the show, he'll reach out to him. You guys are amazing. He'll blow your mind. He already got me on LinkedIn. He already sent me a message. Think of your question. Why? Like, think of something you really are curious about and then pose it to that guy and watch what answer you get. It'll blow your mind. I'm going to run through these here. I got a couple of people are still stacking up. First off, I'm so stoked. Everybody's here. Thank you for hanging out with us. Um, Nico says, yes, like I have something to lose. Well, we all feel like we do. I mean, and you probably do, but I hope you have more courage in understanding how powerful you are. Like maybe you have something to gain by talking to those people. You know what I mean? Maybe you have a new friend to make or maybe your mind gets blown by some guy, some woman you thought was one way, but they're totally another way. At my workplace, for instance, at my workplace, for instance, where I used to work, It's also tied to a desire to be in control. Control of how you're being perceived by others. But I'm working on that. Staying true to myself. Yeah, control is a big one. But so does surrender. You know what I mean? What if you just surrender to the idea that you're not in control? That's a lot of freedom in there, I think. What are your thoughts on that, Joshua? Anything to add there? Have you seen the movie Heretic? The new movie? No. Um, it's, it's really great. Hugh Grant. Um, it's basically like a one man show. It's there's other, you know, obviously there's other people in it, but his, he, it talks a lot about the unifying concept of religion is control throughout human history. It's a great movie. Uh, it's a great study and you know, um, just human nature. Yeah. yeah lighter lighter comes on he says I've always I've had distance energy treatments where I went from feeling ill physically to radiant health in sixty minutes not to mention psychologically well there's a witness right here you know and I I don't doubt it like I I I think that there's real power in communication there's real power and release and Letting energy get moved through you, from you, for you. It's totally plausible. First off, thank you for being here, Lighter. I'm stoked to hear that. Nico, I have to go to work now. I'm so stoked you're here, Nico. Thank you very much for hanging out with Josh. We'll be in touch. I'd love to get you on the podcast. Thanks so much to both of you for the conversation. Keep it going. All right. Danielle, feeling trapped in work that doesn't fit you. There are so many little ways to reclaim your soul. Like you said, Josh, little successes lead to big successes. But also going back to education, imagine a world where we taught kids how to listen to their inner guides, how to be uncompromisingly authentic to their own path. What we are looking at now in counseling is adults who were never taught how to look at their patterns and how to conjugate the message of their soul. That is freaking beautiful. Their soul energy. Distance Reiki, sound with memory, literally everything is vibration. From sound to light to brainwaves to our emotions. We are connected whether we like it or not. This kind of feels like the energy behind the be the change you want to see. Your body is literally your best antenna. You have capabilities, senses that modern science hasn't defined. We know so much instinctually. It's when that pesky brain gets involved and either shuts down our thoughts or tied to it. Yeah, well said. There's a lot in there. There's some extremely eloquent people here chiming in. It's incredible. I'm so stoked. Thank you to everybody. I can't wait to, after this podcast, I'll reach out to everybody. I would love to talk to them all. Adam, he says, I bought my plane ticket to Denver last night. If I buy you your hundredth coffee, can we discuss Mushroom Moonshine and Nine Inch Nails? I told him, I replied to him, I said, I'll discuss Nine Inch Nails all day, every day. Be careful what you wish for, buddy. We will break down the entire catalog. Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Man, Joshua, you're going to have to come back. We'll do some more conversations because there's so much more about music that I feel like we just scratched the surface of, and I would love to get your thoughts on it. But before I land the plane here, man, where can people find you? What do you have coming up? What are you excited about? I know you got a brand new YouTube channel with so much sick music on there, but where else can people find you, man? What do you got coming up? Yeah, so I did start a new YouTube channel for all this stuff that you kind of lit the fire on. It's called Dichotomy Collective because I don't want it to be about me. I don't want it to be even, you know... I would love to collaborate with more people on stuff and yeah you know you know like I said everything I do is in-house it's all myself just sitting here tweaking and um I can get around but you know I know there's better producers out there who can tweak stuff so I I made it more of like a communal name so that we could all work together um yeah that's the one great thing about in this day and age and high speed internet you can send giant sessions to people back and forth um So, yeah, so Dichotomy Collective is is the YouTube channel. Instagram is Joshua Boyer Psych, P-S-Y-C-H. I'm just kind of doing my thing, man. I'm putting out this music. I will be at Psychedelic Science in June covering it for a couple of different clients, but I'm also going to be running around, like I said, running around meeting as many people as I can Gonna it sounds like we're gonna do some music stuff. It's like dog fun house With with that team of people George, I think you and I have some stuff. We're gonna try to brew. Yeah. Yeah, I'm literally gonna Hit the ground Just running, you know, yeah So so I'll be there Yeah, just just you can reach me on LinkedIn it's Joshua Moyer and see and I just, I have so many irons in the fire and I, I'm also trying to organize those by and see, like, see what my bandwidth is. But, um, and then, you know, I'm still in school a year from now, I'll be able to start seeing clients. Yeah. And, and my goal is, as we spoke, I believe at the very beginning, we might not have even been recording it, George. Like I have my own views of my, my, um, goal is to take that traditional counseling that I'm learning and learning the skill set, but all but plug it into my own like, paradigm where I think will work better for people. And I think that's something I bring to it because I've not been in the mental health field before I've been doing, you know, twenty five years doing music and social media and corporate stuff and nonprofits and stuff, never mental health. And I think I bring a very different perspective to it. So Yeah, there's just so much. My days are so crazy. At the end of every day, I feel like I'm sliding into home plate. You know, just like just just and my brain, it never turns off. That's why I kind of have to really medicate myself to go to sleep. I just weaned myself off Ambien. so I'm like really proud about that um that month or so um I have found better ways to fall asleep but uh um yeah I'm out there man I'm out I'm part of the psychedelic networking club um I might be doing some stuff helping out with global psychedelic week you know I'm just there's I I'm here I'm just I'm finally have the bandwidth to put all my efforts and creativity and passion into something that I feel strongly about and I'm not just like punching the clock like I've been doing non-stop you know um so I hope it's not over exposure I hope both people don't feel like where the hell did this guy come from like all this stuff all this stuff has been brewing in the background for for a long time and it's it's only recently that I've been able to be like have the whole day man like I'm gonna talk to I'm gonna talk to all these people I'm gonna create this content for my clients I'm gonna work on music like I'm gonna you know my when my kids come home from school I'm like yeah I've talked to people in three different countries today yeah like what the hell you know or or I'm at the grocery store I'm like like what like this person from this country paid me on the cash app or did they pay me venmo or did they do this I'm like it's just such a weird and wild ride and um And I, you know, I'm here for it. I'm passionate about it. I want to hear people's stories. I want to, I want to be someone that people feel like I, I help them through their day and not just, I don't want to be the reason that some rich person gets richer. I'm done. I'm over it. I want to be the reason that someone can live their life a little bit better at the end of the day. Um, Yeah. So you kind of just have to shut my mic off at a certain point, George. It's brilliant, man. It's just constant stream of consciousness with me. I love it. There's work to be done. There's so much work to be done. And we have to do it in the right way. And we have to work together. We have to collaborate. You and I, we have to collaborate. And I'm saying this to everyone who's listening. We have to collaborate. Um, we have to work together. Nobody, nobody exists in a silo. And, um, it came up, I think one of the biggest things that we live with in modern society is our disconnection. That tribe mentality is gone. You know, um, we have to work together. Period. Brilliant. It's brilliant. Joshua, thank you so much for being here today. Robert, if you're still, if you're still around, send some of those guitar riffs to Joshua. I think you guys would hook up on a music level that would be incredible. But so everyone go down to the show notes, check out Joshua's music, reach out to him. If you're looking for, if you found this conversation interesting, reach out to him. The guy's brilliant. He masters on like ten different levels and you do so much cool stuff. I'm stoked you're here. I think you're a huge part of this community. I can't wait to see all the other things you build. And I'll talk to you offline a little bit later. Ladies and gentlemen, that's all we got. Hang on briefly afterwards, Joshua, to everybody else. I'll see you tomorrow. Aloha. Thanks, guys. Bye.