Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life Podcast. Hope everybody's having a beautiful day. Hope the Sunday's treating you right. Hope the birds are singing. Hope the sun is shining, the wind is at your back. Greg Schenken, ladies and gentlemen, some build brands. Greg builds Frequency, CEO of Gloss by Tidal, but in truth, a digital alchemist, spinning data into destiny and pixels into psychedelic prayer flags. He's the glitch in the algorithm that remembers we have souls. where most sell clicks, Greg summons revolutions. Half marketer, half mystic, he weaves SEO with serotonin funnels with freedom, Google Maps with mycelial maps of the mind, a rebel with metrics, an insurgent with heat maps, a seer in a sea of salesmen. This isn't marketing. This is medicine wrapped in code. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, Greg Schenken. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks for the intro. Yeah, man. I'm stoked you're here today, man. What's new on your side over there, man? Yeah, what's new is everything related to psychedelic science. We're just over a week away and wow, it's going to be a wild ride. I was at the last one and this one's gonna be an even wilder ride. So I'm excited, excited to meet you, excited to meet so many people I have Zoomed with and now we can have hugs. So looking forward to lots of hugs. yeah it's such an interesting time especially for people that are around the industry because I think for so long so many of us have been so deep in like sort of the the rules the engagements you know all of the laws and all the excitement we get so wrapped up in it and it's difficult to explain sometimes to maybe the regular people that are out there what's really going on but everyone's going to be together man from all parts of all the industry it's going to be wild yeah it is it's going to be exciting And sometimes I call the other people, the regular people, or the normies, and I was kind of sharing that little anecdote to someone else months ago, and they said, no, no, we're the normies. So just something to chew on. Who knows? We're all normal or not. Yeah, exactly. It's such a crazy word to think about. You know, what's not what's abnormal and going to be incredible over there is like the whole psychedelic playhouse gig they got going on. And I know you're a big part of that. I was wondering if you can maybe kind of break down what that is and some of the events that are going to be happening there. Sure. So it started as the germ of an idea many months ago. I wasn't even involved at that point. All right. From Jacob Tell from District two sixteen and Christian Gray, super connector extraordinaire. And then it's just grown and blossomed into what's going to be a huge two night event. And there are plenty of evening events after the psychedelic science, you know, daytime, a lot of great events for sure. Um, and psychedelic playhouse is really, it's got something for everyone. So there is kind of the late night music DJ, if that's your jam, it has a whole bunch of panels and speaking all around, you know, many topics. We're on psychedelics and I'll be on one of those panels on psychedelics and masculinity with some incredible panelists. Yeah. And one for me, one for women and all sorts of topics. And we're gonna have art and that's my job to bring in art installations. We'll have live painters, we'll have projection art and an interactive art installation which is gonna be amazing. And what am I leaving out? Food and lots of hugs. We'll keep coming back to that theme. Hugs for everyone, whoever wants them. Yeah, I'm excited for just the all-around entertainment. There's also like a Shark Tank event going on there. What do you know about that? That's right. Yeah, thank you so much. I can't even remember it all. So Psych Tank. So Psych Tank, kind of fashioned after Shark Tank. And it will be three psychedelics-related businesses, all of whom made it after some really serious selection criteria. And they'll be pitching their businesses. I mean, they're all in business, but looking for, you know, to bring their next, you know, upload their business, bring it to the next level, looking for advice, additional investment, you know, provided by our community. Thank you for bringing that up because that's another big part of the Playhouse. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Matt Ritchie out there who and Cesar, all these people that are putting on Kyle. Thank you guys so much for everything. And of course, you can't leave out Carly. Carly Dutch Green is like a wizard on the backstage, just creating so much magic. We're so thankful to have everybody over there pitching in. know greg I can't I can't get away from the idea of meaning and it sounds to me like just being involved in this group and psychedelics alone I feel like the whole world of psychedelics is bringing so much more meaning into the world of marketing and you have a huge background in marketing I was wondering if you could talk about that relationship between meaningfulness and marketing yes that's a insightful question for sure and something that I speak a lot about because Um, the convergence of psychedelics and business. So that could be another way of kind of echoing what you just said, um, you know, marketing and meaning, right? So psychedelics helps us tap into our own meaning and then there's the business side. So we are, um, kind of looking at ancient wisdom and medicines that have been around for thousands of years. And now we're bringing that into a modern Westernized colonialized society and framework, and that's not good or bad. It just is. And so, you know, we have healers, we have mental health practices, and then we have, you know, amazing speakers and thought leaders and influencers. And, you know, how do we bridge that gap from things like clicks and KPIs and traffic and ensuring that we are, you know, preserving ancient wisdom and meaning and healing. And so I think many of us um are trying to figure that out yeah and this is something I'm passionate about so I'm glad you asked the question uh you know how do we do that uh there are also some other challenges in the space right now um many psychedelic related accounts have been taken down by uh meta over the past several weeks some have come back up some have not And some of the brands in this space, nonprofits, for-profits, they rely on social for their traffic. And so it's caused quite a stir over the past few weeks, right before the largest psychedelics event in the world. Is there a connection between the timing? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, no one does. Some of these accounts have come back up. So is this coming from algorithms? Is it coming from humans? We don't know. What I do know is that this has shaken quite a few people up. And so a part of what I'm looking to do is, how can we bring this into our own community? How can we help each other without having to rely necessarily on the Metas and Googles of the world? I mentioned Meta, but Google doesn't allow paid traffic for many types of brands in the space. whether it's based on legality or just a lack of understanding or algorithms. We just don't know. What we do know is that it's very hard to rely on these networks to build one's brand or nonprofit. And so kind of back to your original question. So we're all here for meaning. We're all here for personal growth, for raising our consciousness, for helping our own mental health. And then once we, from our own personal journeys, how do we bring that to our communities in the world. And that's kind of the passion. I mean, that's the passion that brought me into this space. But I know that is a common thread among people that come in. You know, you don't come into this space because, like, you think it's interesting. You come in because you have had a transformational experience or a life changing journey. You know, and so then you come into this and it's a well, how can I maximize my impact? And for that, of course, we live in a digital world. But then we're running into roadblocks, as I've shared. So maybe roundabout way of answering your question, but kind of bring it back to what you said, meaning and marketing, right? So yeah, these are some of the themes that I think about, that I talk about with clients, that I talk about in the nonprofit work I do. And I think we'll be hearing a lot about that at these events, Psychedelic Science and Psychedelic Playhouse and many of the other you know, events and programming that we'll have next week. Yeah, it's really well said. And you know who I think has really gotten it right out of all of this is Jacob Tell with District Two Sixteen. That seems to me to be a model for a way to not only inspire and captivate, but also get a marketing messaging out there. And for those that don't know, everyone go check out District Two Sixteen. This guy Jacob Tell and what he's got working on there is phenomenal. I want people to think about imagine going to a theater like setting or even like a home ambiance like setting and watching an incredible panel of speakers that you're totally enthralled in for like, say, fifteen or twenty minutes or maybe forty five minutes. And then all of a sudden having an incredible band come up and play some acoustic music and then watching those two sort of performances shake hands and create their own sort of conversation. And that's kind of what I see happening with Psychedelic Playhouse. They're bringing in so many different parts of the community and they're all coming together and speaking about how to change that community. And what you're really seeing is an actual meeting of the minds from different industries coming together to figure out how to build something that's meaningful. And when I look at marketing today, I see so much of us moving away from manipulation. Like when you look at the next generation, they begin to see, they can smell the commercialization, they can smell the commodification and they're instantly turned off by it. But when you start putting in real speakers up there that have a real message and talking about real products and real services that can create change, That seems to me to be where we're headed to in this whole world. And I think psychedelics is leading the way. We're going to see it at the Psychedelic Playhouse event. We're going to see it at the Iboga Saves event that I'm working on. And you're going to see it at Psychedelic Science. I really think it's sort of a prototype for how you can get out into your community and create actual change. What's your thoughts on that? Yes, so well said. And I'll start with you ended community so yeah that's that's what we have that's what we're building that's what we're growing um through live events through virtual events through discussions like this I was at a local round table in boulder earlier this week and it was just you know the fourteen people sitting around a table just talking and sharing about psychedelics so yeah it gets down to that really grassroots level literally down to one-on-one like we're doing of course then you'll help us reach a larger audience here, but it could be us just, you know, chatting over coffee or, you know, a ten thousand person event, which is what psychedelic science will be. And so. But, you know, you mentioned Jacob Tell is doing amazing work with District two sixteen and the events that he's doing. And what that's doing is it's bringing people together face to face. Of course, we have so many mechanisms of utilizing virtual technology, and that's great too. But it's these events that bring us together, that help us connect with one another, share with one another, share our stories, whether that's from a personal healing place or what we're doing to bring our message into the world to affect change. kind of back to your previous question, my response, events is a way to kind of bring the power and control into our own hands. I don't mean that in a kind of mercenary way. I just mean that we have the power and the control to create these events. And again, whether online or offline, and if we can do that without relying on large centralized networks where we don't have a lot of control, the more we can do that, the better. And so again, you know, kudos to Jacob and District two sixteen kudos to what you're doing to bring, you know, meaningful conversations and amplify our voices through platforms like yours, George. And so those are some of the things I think about, you know, community events that bring us together and doing more of that in a way that where we're leveraging each other's networks to get the word out instead of or at least in a complementary way to what some of the large digital networks are that you know don't really get what we're doing either because there are humans that don't get it or algorithms that probably will never get it because how could algorithms understand you know ancient wisdom and healing and transformational growth and consciousness although maybe ai starts to understand consciousness, but that's a whole other topic, but kind of bring it back to where you started, George. You know, it's through community, community events, and how can we collaborate to amplify our voices? Yeah, it's really well said. It brings about some ideas to me that maybe for too long we've relied on these platforms to build businesses. Like we really got into this space where we're so enamored by clicks and views and likes, but at the end of the day, A lot of those don't ever really transmit into real growth or real opportunities. You know, it's sort of like we have these virtual connections, but how often do those virtual connections bear fruit? Unlike community of what you're talking about. So maybe this is a real lesson in in building from the ground up. For so long, we've had this sort of centralized model we built from the top down and you would start with the influence up here and it would trickle down and you could hit all the different media channels. You get your message widespread out there that still exists. But maybe the model we're working with now in psychedelic playhouse, district two, sixteen, all these events are showing us a whole new level, like a mycelial model where everybody on the ground kind of comes together and then you can reach a wider audience. What are your thoughts on the changing way, the changing landscape of how we're using these tools? Yes. So first of all, I totally agree that I think over the years and maybe decades now, a couple of decades, we have relied on resources that maybe we don't have control over. And again, I mean, these are charged words, but they also are what we're dealing with, right? Yeah, totally. If your whole business is reliant on two huge global conglomerates, then that's a thing, right? That can backfire, as we've seen over the past few weeks. And so I love the word mycelial, of course, anyone in the space loves that word and what it stands for, what it means. And I think that just speaks to, it's using a more heart-centered and medicine-centric way to exemplify community and events that we're talking about here, again, live or online. And so I always think about, and people, use this term, so I certainly didn't coin it, but how do we build our own mycelial maps? Yeah. And. Twenty twenty three was my first time attending this event, and when I just look back at kind of the size and scope of my map then and now, you know, there's just no comparison. I mean, it's just absolutely exploded. And that's based on, you know, just by being focused and passionate in this space. But I don't say it to turn attention to me. I mean that we're all doing that, right? You're doing that right now. And so grateful for that because, you know, you have a platform, right? And so the more we can build our mycelial maps through, and I train on this. So I do business web marketing training for psychedelic training schools that have students that they're training on the psychedelic healing piece, but not necessarily on the business marketing piece. And I share strategies and tactics and all of that because those are important and still useful and impactful. But I always end my trainings talking about how to build one's mycelial map. And there are so many ways to do it. Getting out to events, and I just call it leaning in, like saying yes to everything that makes sense and is aligned with you. But the more I say yes, especially when it's yeses that get me outside of my comfort zone. So one of my mantras is say yes to anything self-serving that's outside my comfort zone. And the more I do that, the more I personally grow and build my maps or my map. more you know collaborative opportunities arise like working with amazing teams for psychedelic playhouse or through my non-profit which is on my hat colorado psychedelic society so it's kind of like anything anything we can do to lean into community friendships and how that aligns with our own personal healing and getting out of one's comfort zone and I was just thinking about this today you know, things that would really get me nervous, anxious. Two years ago, I'm just picking that because that was the last psychedelic science compared to today. You know, it's like what used to kind of freak me out then is sort of like, yeah, I got that. And then I have new growth edges, too. So I certainly don't have it all figured out there. Things I think about, I'm like, wow, man, I don't know if I could do that. But then if the opportunity presents itself and I do it. And then it's kind of like I broke through that growth edge. And then, you know, then of course always another challenge, but kind of back to your question, George, you know, building our mycelial maps and, and not just our own mycelial maps, but how do we connect our maps to, you know, other like-minded heart centered people, you know, like yourself and people at the playhouse. And, and that's what these events are, are so, impactful at doing. And so that's why they're so important. Yeah, I love it. It's really well said. And I especially love the part about leaning into your uncomfortableness or finding ways to feel uncomfortable because growth and comfort can never coexist. And if you find yourself on the edge of doing something, but it feels too uncomfortable, that usually means you're right on track and you should try to push harder into that area. Obviously, think about the things you need to do before you make a rash decision. But if you're on the fence about something uncomfortable, it usually means you're pretty close to the mark. I want to get to a couple of questions we got coming in here, Greg. The first one comes to us from Desiree. She says, what's the difference between a brand that sells and a brand that heals? So there are plenty of brands that are doing both. Yeah. And then there are brands that are doing one and not the other. So I think it's a great question. So thank you for that, Desiree. There are brands that are selling but not healing. I just learned about, I don't remember the brand name, that is selling iboga microdoses. And I'm just pausing because it's like, really? Where are they coming from? What do they contain? Iboga and ibogaine are, again, ancient plant medicines. Who knows what's in them? And so I haven't tested the product nor would I, but to me and other brands like it, those are brands that are selling, but not healing. On the flip side of that, there are brands and businesses that are doing lots of great healing, but they're not getting enough clients in the door or revenue in the door. And this is where kind of that convergence of psychedelics and business and their service centers in Oregon and quote service center is what Oregon calls their regulated um, suicide and healing model. And it sounds kind of like a place you bring your car in, but I didn't invent the word. And I don't know who invented the word, but probably it wasn't created by someone in this space. Cause service center kind of sounds funky. No offense to Oregon. I, whenever I talk about Oregon, I mean, it was why I always do the, you know, like, cause they were the first, they were the first. Yeah. And I was an ambassador for prop one at twenty two in Colorado, which legalized mushrooms here in literally a matter of weeks, maybe even days. The first, healing center, that's what we're calling them, will be opening here in Colorado. But back to the question from Desiree, I know that many of the service centers, excuse me, in Oregon are struggling and they're bringing clients in the door and they're doing tremendous healing, but many of them are struggling. So they are healing, but not quote selling enough. And that's generally not because they're doing anything wrong. course, in any industry, some businesses are, you know, doing better and more effective marketing than others. But in our, you know, nascent, is it nascent or nascent? I never, I never, I don't use the word very much, but burgeoning space, emerging space. I'll look up the pronunciation later. You know, you have these service centers in Oregon, they've been open for, you know, twelve, eighteen, twenty four months. And they are, of course, coming from a place of healing, but they're running into a lot of these thorny issues that I speak about and that we're talking about now. And give me a long-winded answer from Desiree's question, but I think it's a really, really important one. So they are looking at how to market their businesses. They are having their social accounts shut down. They can't use Google at all because as we know, psychedelics are still federally illegal, just like cannabis. So how do they market their businesses? And it comes back to some of the themes that we've talked about, through community, through events, Um, but it's still challenging and then it gets into areas of awareness and accessibility. So that's something else I'm really passionate about, but it really does touch on this or answer this question. You know, someone who's coming into someone who, you know, heard Oprah talk about psychedelics and, and says to themselves, wow, like that's interesting. I want to pursue that. They might not even live in Oregon and they know that's where they have to go soon to be Colorado as well. Well, might not be able to afford to travel there and then they might research it more and say okay you know I I'm ready to spend some money on this and then they learn that a journey is three thousand dollars and by the way it's not just the journey that's three thousand it's prep sessions the journey which is six to eight hours and integration so when you break that all down um healers in this space that are working above ground they're not they're making about the same as therapists are but if you're someone coming into it and you're not a quote psychonaut like Like we are, right? They're going to say, three thousand dollars and I might have to travel there. No way. And so then they're not getting the healing that they need, you know, or it could be a military vet who can't afford that either. And so, again, I love the question because there are businesses that are doing tremendous healing and then there are businesses that are just selling. And so obviously the sweet spot is right. Selling and healing. And that's kind of like what we're hoping to of move forward with psych tank and helping those businesses and you know bringing more investment into the community um and working as a community so we can ideally find that sweet spot for as many businesses and brands as we can so that we can be selling and healing in a way that is you know supports supports this whole community and you know maximizes mental health and transformational experiences and raising our consciousness as a species, which gets woo woo, but I do feel like that's kind of like that overarching goal. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think you can talk about psychedelics without getting into the woo woo and I know that science likes to Measure things and have a exact way to define what it is that's happening But it's very difficult to put a label on an awakening It's very difficult to measure the tears of a spouse who sees their loved one moving in a world freely again It's difficult to really measure these things to have these metrics which often go hand in hand with selling different things and so Unfortunately, so many of the metrics we use today are used to define legitimacy. You know what I mean by that? Like, okay, well, show me why it works. And if I say, well, look at this guy who was confined to his bed in depression, and now he's out getting a job. Or look at this father who was never around for his kid, and now they're out playing baseball. But the science seems to ask the question, yeah, but why? How do you know the psychedelics did that? Well, I mean, I think there's a lot of evidence to support that it has. And I think that's where we are in sort of this psychedelic renaissance is trying to quantify how and why something works. But I often go back to, do you need to know why it works? It works. Just look at the people that are using it like it works. But that gets messy because then you start having a difficult time selling it. You have a difficult time, you know, centralizing it. finding an authority around it and that so much of those things are needed to really build up an industry around it I I don't know sometimes I think it drifts back into the underground where it's always been on some level you know I would love to see it be above board and touch touch more people and help out more lives but Maybe the seeking and maybe the fact that it is underground is part of an individual's healing process. You know, the courage to go and look for something that's taboo. There's a lot of medicine in that, you know, because you have to ask a lot of questions and find the right people and understand and do the research in order to find the thing that you need. What do you got any thoughts on that? Yes, you said so much. And my thinking brain was going, hmm, I want to touch on that, that, that, that, and that. One thing I've been working on myself is breathe and let my non-thinking brain respond. So you said so many things. And one piece that stood out is, paraphrasing, you can't put a price on your mental health or happiness. so that's another piece that comes into it I touched on before the accessibility because if I say to you it's three thousand dollars to get yourself out of being confined to bed and back to work and by the way I was one of those people I know what that feels like I struggle with depression and psychedelics have helped me so much so to that person you know paid three thousand dollars and if you don't have it you're gonna find a way to find it but that number doesn't seem quantifiable it's three thousand dollars right and I'm talking about the above ground you talked about yeah round two and that those are different economics and that's another piece is that someone coming in you know who's not a psychonaut doesn't have access to underground resources and even if they did they might feel it's unsafe you know they want to walk into a healing center which is a you know brick and mortar structure and it's you know quote legit I mean it's not well it is legit but I'm saying someone who doesn't you know, understand the full sphere of this and that there are underground resources might think of quote underground as, you know, deep, dark basement and some guy with a bunch of beads shaking around. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so, and then just kind of touching on some of the other pieces you brought up, you know, then you have, governing bodies like the FDA that they do want to see. They do want to see results. They want to see tests and studies in the same way that pharmaceuticals are approved. And that takes years and hundreds or thousands of tests. And is there some validity to that? I think so, because they're ensuring safety. Like, for example, they will hopefully go after, you know, a BOGA and a capsule companies and right? Because we need that too. And so again, it's like that convergence of ancient wisdom and ancient medicines and the world we live in now, right? And so many of these pieces sometimes are crosshairs, sometimes make sense from an indigenous, you know, kind of ancient wisdom perspective, but not in today's world or vice versa. Like, you know, we have to look at things through the lens of what we have, but then that's at odds with know how these medicines started in the first place and and how these you know practices are um you know we're now coming into the uh above ground space so um so you said a lot so I had to say a lot so hopefully yeah yeah and I'm sure there were things I didn't touch on that you said but um but yeah I mean I love this conversation because these are the types of I know Yeah, discussions that we need to have. So we're having them. So thank you again. You know, and I think coming up, like at Psychedelic Playhouse, at these events, for anybody listening that feels themselves engaged in this conversation and wants to know more, if you can make it out to Denver on June seventeenth at the Psychedelic Playhouse, maybe you're in Denver right now and you're like, I don't even know what's happening. If you just look at the little ticker down below, you can find tickets to it and check it out. But these are the kind of conversations that are going to be there. And I think that beyond the conversations that are going to be there, the people that are going to this event, like the psychedelic playhouse, are going to come back to their communities and have real tools to build and understand the framework moving forward so I see these events like psychedelic playhouse or iboga saves as real meeting as real meetup points for people to go and learn and then bring back information to their community it's going to be there's going to be some wonderful speakers um coming up at the psychedelic playhouse I know I think dennis is going to be out there I think malika might be out there cat's going to be out there of course christian carly jacob kyle You're going to be there. I'll be there. There's going to be so many cool people just riffing and sharing ideas and understanding the business platform. What are you most excited about for this particular event at psychedelic playhouse? Hmm. I'm excited to meet and hug all the people that you said who I haven't met in person. Some I have, and then those who I have, we'll have some more hugs. Uh, so yeah, I'm, I'm most excited for, for the community aspect of it. Um, which touches on all of the programming that we'll have, be it Psych Tank, be it late night DJ sets, be it learning from each other at these lectures and panels. So what I'm most excited about is just really the feeling. The feeling and the, I'm kind of repeating, but just the community aspect of it. Connecting with other people in our space who get it, want to grow it, and then also the curiosity seekers that may be newer that are here to learn. And so that's how we all grow our individual and collective mycelial maps. We need to widen the circle. It's just us all hugging each other. We're old friends. That's great. That's great. But we need to increase the size and scope and breadth and depth of that circle and map so that we can raise awareness, education, legalization, and still be respecting indigenous rights and reciprocity to the cultures that have gifted us with these medicines. So all that stuff I'm super excited for. Yeah. You know, Greg, you've been working quite a lot on the business side and especially with psychedelics. Maybe you could has in the last year, have you seen a lot of people coming to you to set up businesses around psychedelics? I think you are in the trenches and you're getting to see maybe the industry being built in real time. Is that fair to say? Is there your business kind of Shot up a little bit. Are you seeing more interest in the psychedelic space or how does how is this industry or burgeoning industry? Begun to affect what you were doing as far as building a business and marketing and helping people Yeah, so I've had a web development digital marketing agency for twelve years but only been working in the psychedelic space for about three years and that is you know, the marker there's is my first sip of ayahuasca tea and January, and I came to that because I really wasn't feeling a lot of passion in my life and career. And that led me to the medicine. I had been on SSRI meds for depression for about twelve years. And so I know a very, very deep personal level of struggles with depression. And then actually when I kind of emerged from depression, then anxiety came in and reared its ugly head. And so, so I I've been through the ringer as many of us have, and that brought me into a place where I could start to say, well, what are my skills and superpowers and how do I bring that into the space? And so at that time, um, it was, we have developed digital marketing and, and still is. And so my, my focus now on the business side is focusing on clients in this space and it like any sort of industry or vertical. And sometimes I hesitate to use like these very business centric terms, you know, vertical business KPI, but, but you know, that's true. Those aren't bad words. That's just what, you know, what we have. Right. But it's still, it's like, kind of feels funny. Sometimes we're talking about ancient wisdom and medicines and then clicks and KPIs and, you know, funnels. Right. But so with that as the kind of foundation, sometimes they'll use those words when they make sense. Yeah. And so, yeah, I work with a growing number of businesses in this space, be it service centers, healing centers, even ancillary businesses like attorneys that work in the space, ketamine clinics. And so, yeah, I mean, the growth in this space has created more demand for the types of services that I provide and many other businesses provide. And on the web development side, it's like very smooth and simple and straightforward because we're basically creating websites that are Um, you know, we've done great work for a dozen years and now we're applying that to, uh, you know, businesses and brands in this space, the marketing side is presenting challenges as we've talked about. And so on the marketing side, I kind of touched on it, but I'll maybe tease a little bit more. I am working on a concept where we have a mycelial network in this space where we're all helping promote one another in a very collective collaborative way in a way that doesn't. need to leverage the traffic resources from these algorithmic global networks. And so that's what's most alive for me right now. Web dev, we got it. Marketing, really nobody's got it. It's just because of all the challenges. And so the very challenge that I'm sharing that exists, I'm looking to help solve that problem through And I'm being kind of broad in general right now because it's a concept that will, you know, more to come in the upcoming weeks. But, you know, how can we align our mycelial maps in such a way so we're working together and not having to, you know, buy traffic from this place and that place that just may not understand what we're all about. So those are some of the things that I'm seeing along with some of the challenges that I've shared before around accessibility and legalization. So yeah, those are some of the things I'm doing in, in, in my own, you know, on the business side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome to see. Let's see. We've got some questions coming in here. This one comes to us from Neil. Neil says is the next frontier of marketing, not more automation, but more awareness. Hmm. Wow. That's some great people asking questions right now in the world. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. So, yeah I mean awareness is a huge part of what's going to bring this whole movement forward awareness education you know overcoming stigma you know we have this collective fear of psychedelics going back to the sixties people taking you know acid and jumping off of buildings and then our uh good old buddy president nixon legalizing these medicines because people are taking lsd and not going to Vietnam, right? So, you know, we have that side of it. And so, you know, the awareness piece, I think, is absolutely paramount. And that's why these events are so important. Playhouse psychedelic science discussions like this, or like I talked about, just one-on-one on the street. And, you know, I was out flyering and postering today for a psychedelic playhouse. And it's just funny, like people just see you put up a poster. And I actually had a clipboard with the posters like just laying on a bench and I was hanging one up and people just see the clipboard and they're like what do you what's that all about what are you guys doing so I mean like it does get down to that grassroots literally like a piece of paper on a bench and then up to a you know ten thousand person event like we'll have next week and then of course at the playhouse and so the I forget the first part of the question there was awareness and then he was balancing that between awareness and maybe you could just uh jog my memory there Yeah, he was talking about, sorry Neil, let me jump back to this question. He was talking, I think he was just curious about the future of awareness and like if we see marketing moving in that way, but I think you answered it. And I wanna touch on the idea of the grassroots. You know, right now, It seems so much, at least to me, like the sixties, like right here in California, I'm in Northern California, but in Southern California, you're seeing all these riots happening. Like, I can't help but think, wow, like this is the sixties about to be set on fire. If I was in Southern California, there's not that right. I got a perfect place to be handing out these flyers because everybody is not only desperate for change. They're desperate for meaningful action in their life. And I think this is what's happening with psychedelics. They seem to go hand in hand with times that are uncertain and we find ourselves in an incredibly uncertain times. And that's where psychedelics awareness change begins to happen at the grassroots level is when all these things are happening. Do you see some similarities between what's happening right now in the political climate or maybe in the world climate and what happened back in the sixties? Yeah, there's certain similarities, but a whole heck of a lot of differences yeah of course you know america now in the sixties and then what's happening globally and actually um I'll be speaking on a panel at psychedelic science through my work with as co-founder of colorado psychedelic society and I'll be sitting with the french psychedelic society and the swedish psychedelic society moderated by steve d'angelo who is kind of a you know godfather grandfather in the cannabis space and I mentioned that because in prepping for this panel with those other organizations, I'm learning that it's not surprisingly very different between America, Sweden, and France. And so we talked about hope for veterans before and so much great work to be done with veterans and psychedelics. And of course, Sweden and France have veterans, and I'm sure some of them have PTSD, but it's nowhere near what we have here. It's like, that's not that's not their path into this. Whereas that's one of our big, not the only big pass into this. And it's like something I never, you know, I try to think globally, of course, but in having meeting these peers in, in, in, in this case, Europe, it's like Sweden doesn't have, you know, a million, they don't have to combat vets committing suicide every day. I'm sure there is some suicide, but not to the extent that we do. And so we have like that, um, whole piece of it. And as far as like us now versus the sixties, you know, of course we have a lot more awareness now and people back then were just kind of like, you know, kind of like doing a bunch of LSD and, and, and that's okay. You know, a lot of it was aligned with like grateful dead and I'm an old school deadhead. So like I resonate with that for sure. But you know, people didn't really know as much of the risks back then. And then of course the risks were, you know, distorted and saying that, you know, these drugs are bad, they're evil, they're gonna make you jump off a building, you know, turn, you know, make you crazy overnight. And so we have a lot more awareness now. And one piece on that, which has kind of come alive for me recently is that, you know, back then, Timothy Leary is one of the pioneers in this space. And he actually came up with the concepts of set and setting. And I had the honor of meeting his son, Zach Leary, for a fundraising event we did back in Boulder about four weeks ago. And Zach released a new book called Your Extraordinary Mind. It's a great, great read. And of course, he talks about his history growing up with Timothy Leary as his father, which is certainly a thing. And then moving away from that, when his father passed, he actually went into the corporate world and digital marketing. And so we got to kind of align and jam on Grateful Dead and digital marketing. It was pretty cool. And the reason I bring all this up is in terms of now versus the sixties, because, you know, his father, sixties, his son now kind of carrying the mantle and his, and Zach came up with the concept of sustainability, which speaks to and encompasses a lot of integration, which as you know, is such a big part of the journey. But back then it was, you know, his father again, coined the term set and setting, you know, have the right mindset coming in and have a very safe setting, but it just wasn't kind of known then like what to do after the journey. And we all know about anyone in this space integration, but, but Zach kind of came up with the term sustainability. How do we sustain that, um, you know, growth and learning from the journey itself. So he, and of course it's an S so alliterations now it's set setting, right? Sixties, Timothy Leary, and now Zach Leary sustainability. So. Just kind of getting back to your question, themes like this are what make today's psychedelic sphere so different. And then I touched on US versus globally. And really, the US was at the forefront of this because of the sixties and the Haight-Asbury era and Grateful Dead and LSD. But now, really, it's a global Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a global path towards this because of the awareness that we have now. Yeah, it's so interesting to think about the way in which the rest of the world may see what they may see through their psychedelic lens. When you talk to these other psychedelic societies, what are some differences? Like you had mentioned that maybe PTSD in veterans are our path inward, or it seemed to be focused on the path inward. But what are some other pathways or some lenses that these other psychedelic societies in other countries are seeing it? Yeah, so I mean, of course, this is kind of addressing the sameness, you know, mental health is a huge catalyst. It's, it's a global epidemic. It's certainly a U S epidemic existing, you know, solutions and pathways and modalities, you know, just aren't working or aren't working as effectively as we would like, or, you know, cause long-term side effects or short-term side, you know, all that stuff. That's, you know, we kind of, we kind of know or are seeing in terms of, kind of what some of the differences or different pathways, like you said, is a whole area around spirituality. So mental health is getting the kind of, you know, the most exposure. And I think that actually is good because, and that can help raise awareness and help government entities like the FDA, you know, pay attention to this more. And especially with veterans, because veterans support, it's a bipartisan issue. know yeah and that's that that's a that's a good thing but there's a whole other aspect of this and this actually zach talks about in his his book um and that is around spirituality and raising our own individual and collective consciousness and he talks a lot about um kind of a theme of cognitive liberty so should governments allow or disallow us to use medicines that we feel will help that may be outside of the big pharma. And by the same token, should they be allowed to tell us what to do or not to do with our consciousness, right? I'm living in this body, you're living in your body, and you have this body and you can walk around and drive a car and put food in your mouth. know it's like I'm at a loss for words because it's kind of ludicrous once you start getting how can the government tell me what to do or not to do with my consciousness and so those are you know it's kind of addressing like some of the different pieces of this yes mental health for sure but spirituality consciousness and so I think that also kind of brings us into a global sphere too it doesn't matter if you're sweden france right uh china right portugal anywhere Right. We all should have this cognitive liberty. We don't all have it based on various governments and controls in place. And so, yeah, those are some things I think about when we talk about, you know, the global piece and then kind of our individual societal pieces of this. Yeah, there's, you know, it brings up this idea of rewilding. I think Simon Vanderells was the first person I spoke to that had mentioned it to me. But this idea of rewilding the mind. And I know it's kind of a, it's really fun to say, rewilding the mind. But it seems for so long we've traveled down the pathway of specialization that we've gotten lost in like the really fine details of everything. Like we're just drowning in abstraction because everything is so finely tuned in the details. But when you pan back and you see it as a whole and you look at the global community, you go, wow, it doesn't seem like anybody's really happy living the lives we're told to live, especially in the West where you're told, look, go to school for ten years or for fifteen or for thirty. If you go to a higher education, it seems like you're probably going to come out with a lot of debt and come out an indentured servant. Maybe you'll pay off the debt. Maybe you won't. But you're not going to be released into the world and doing this thing that you want to do and being successful at. And then if you take another route, you know, maybe you just go straight to work and you make a little bit of money. But then all of a sudden you find yourself bogged down in the American dream of trying to own a home and have two kids and be successful, however you want to define successful, but that isn't working for people anymore. And it seems to me that that is so much of what this mental illness and this, the whole DSM five or six or whatever DSM they're on now, there's all these labels out there to label you as the problem. And then for the society to sell you the cure, when in fact we're the cure. The individual is the cure. The rewilding of the mind is the cure to all that ails you that's happening right now on some level. But what are your thoughts when I say rewilding the mind? What comes to your mind? Well, first I want to say it and see if it's as fun as you said it was. Try it. Rewilding the mind. It is fun. I know. I want you to tell me other fun things to say. I will. When we meet next week. Yeah. tell me it's fun I'll say it um yeah so again so so your questions are so rich uh and so much of this does come back to you know colonialism right so everything changed when people you know culture started conquering other cultures and you know we could spend a whole hour talking about that but you know in the past hundred years, hundred fifty years, especially the best fifty years, twenty years, you know, so many seismic shifts have changed. And. To your point, you know, we are told at a young age like this is the path, you know, you grades in high school, then you get grades in college and then you'll get a job and then you'll work your way up the ladder. I mean, we know those themes. And then along with that, you know, you are suffering. So take this pill. And then you believe that's the way, right? Whether that's your career path or your mental health path, or like I've touched on before, like what about your own consciousness and how many people are even thinking about their own consciousness? Most people aren't, I don't say that in a critical way. They're not because they've grown up and been taught or shown or told, you know, this is the path career wise, mental health wise. And now thanks to psychedelics and you know, we're, we're, collectively learning that there are some other ways of doing things and maybe some better things. And that doesn't mean that psychedelics is for everyone. And if you work a nine to five job or a hundred hours a week and you're happy, awesome. I'm happy. Truly. I'm happy for you. Really? Like as long as we're happy, right? That's, but if you're miserable and you're saying, what the F am I doing here? And you're not feeling fulfillment or meaning, and you're taking a pill that might be giving you side effects or is simply helping, not healing, right? So many pharmaceutical meds, they help. So they tamp down symptoms of depression. And I'll pick that one because that's what I struggled with. And I was one of those folks who I'm not treatment resistant to medication. So for me, they quote worked. They did help. They made me not depressed. Okay. But to your point, this kind of brings it together. You know, I was, for twelve years, I was in this, like, tunnel vision piece of, okay, I'm not feeling depressed. But then it hit me like a ton of bricks one day. Well, okay, I'm not depressed, but am I happy? Am I fulfilled? Is there meaning? You know, kind of what the F am I doing? And then that led me down the path and brought me to where I am now. But think of all the people that either maybe aren't even aware that that's happening at a conscious level, or maybe they reached the point I did, but They don't know what options exist. I was very fortunate. A close friend of mine is a psychedelic healing coach. So he started opening my eyes to what's available. But how many people out there? I mean, millions or tens of hundreds of millions. This is my life and kind of sucks. Or I have these side effects. Or maybe these meds I'm taking aren't even helping me with depression. But this is what I got, right? So I think it's kind of like, how do we bridge? that gap. And that just comes back to things like awareness, education, legality, community, mycelial map, you know, kind of bringing it, tying together a lot of these themes that you've so thoughtfully helped us discuss here today. yeah well these are I don't know they I love these topics and I love learning and I love talking to people like you and I'm really excited for the event at psychedelic playhouse psychedelic science iboga saves there's so many cool events that are happening out there and these are just a few of the topics that we're going to be going over and and learning and trying to workshop out and bring back to our communities and I'm grateful for it. The whole team over at, at psychedelic playhouse, you know, who else is going to be there is Cesar Marin and Diego Ugalde, two giants. Every time I look at Cesar, he's on another stage somewhere where there's like a fashion industry. Like that guy's everywhere, man. He's crushing it. He's great. Same thing. Diego too. He's got warrior side, warrior side. I know has been working with in conjunction with a house of blues and they have their own like Ted talk for, for first responders, man. It's super powerful stuff out there. And, So soaked to get to meet everybody for the first time. But as we're landing the plane over here, Greg, where can people find you? What do you got coming up? What are you excited about, man? Yeah, so you can find me at gregshanken.com. That's G-R-E-G-S-H-A-N-K-E-N. So that's kind of a launch point to a lot of the work I've done. It has other videos and podcasts I've been on. It's got links too. um colorado psychedelic society which is the non-profit of which I'm a co-founder and we'll have a booth at psychedelic science I think it's number eleven hundred but just look us up stop by it's gonna be great you can meet some of our awesome volunteers it is non-profit volunteer um so that's gonna be awesome we'll also be at the playhouse as well and um you know link to my agency so that's glosstech.io g-l-o-s-s-t-e-c-h.io but again all this you can find at uh greg schenken and some of the other projects and speaking that I've done. So yeah, just going over to that site and you can connect with me there. Connect with me on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn. And so far, thankfully, LinkedIn is very psychedelic friendly. It's kind of worked out well for me because I've never been a Facebook, Instagram guy. Nothing wrong with that. But I fortunately haven't been hit by this rash of closures because that's just not where I've spent my time. So yeah, LinkedIn is great. can connect with me there and yeah one other thing I'll say george is that I it kind of just sounds like it's like I just love talking about psychedelics I love it I love it and I sometimes like talking about it that makes it sound like kind of one directional I love sharing with people about psychedelics because I'll also just shut my mouth and listen to you and your story you know for as long as you want to share um So it's sharing about psychedelics, whether it is pointing the person in the right direction when they say, hey, microdosing, what's this all about? Or where can I find a facilitator? Also, I'm in training right now to become a licensed. Nice. Yeah, in Colorado. So it's through an amazing program called Intertrek. They're out of Oregon. I mean, I can't speak highly enough about them, but there are so many great training programs. So I'm plugging that one because I'm in it and it's awesome. So I can say that firsthand, but so many great training programs out there. And so really, I mean this, like reach out about anything. If you ought to like talk and, you know, kick it around and jam about psychedelics. Like I just, it's the favorite part of my day, like sales calls. Sure. Like networking. Great. But like, when it's just like someone reaching out, like let's meet and talk, like the door is open. I love it. I love it. Ladies and gentlemen, in the sphere within the sound of our voice, go down to the show notes, reach out to gregshankin.com. Be part of the movement. If you're not happy with what's going on, then be part of the solution. That's what we're talking about today. I hope this conversation is an invitation for anybody out there who's curious or wants to learn more, then now is the time. So hang on briefly afterwards, Greg, with everybody else within the sound of my voice. Psychedelic Science, Psychedelic Playhouse, June seventeenth, two nights. Come check it out. That's all we got, ladies and gentlemen. Aloha.