All right, did I hit the live button? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life Podcast. Today we have a love letter from the earth, a hymn to the ones who remember. Some people don't walk into the room, they arrive like smoke from ancient incense, like the hush before a storm, like the rustle of bare feet across sacred soil. Heather is one of those people. You don't meet her, you recognize her. She's the scent of rain before it falls, the stillness of a forest before it speaks, the warmth of sunlight filtered through the canopy of memory. Born into a world that taught her to obey, perform, and forget, Heather spent years inside the sleek machinery of modern life, suits, screens, stimulants, silent screams. But beneath the performance there was a pulse, a drumbeat, a whisper in the roots. And when life cracked her open, when death brushed close and time stood still, she didn't just break, she bloomed. Heather turned toward the earth, not as a metaphor, but as a mother. She knelt in the medicine, listened to the rivers, let the vines pull memory from her marrow. She shed the noise and remembered her name. Now she moves with a quiet fire, like someone who has sat in ceremony with herself a thousand times and come out each time more honest, more whole, more wildly human. Heather, thank you so much for being here today. How are you? It was so good. Thank you so much for that beautiful lineup. It's made me cry three times already. So thank you. Oh my God, that is so beautiful. You are so talented. Well, you know what? I think that it's true. Like I recognize you. Like you and I met at the two-sixteen event in Denver. And when we met, like there was this aura about you, like, We all of a sudden we were like in this brilliant conversation about life and what's possible. And I'm like, I got to get to I got to get this girl on the podcast. She's doing great. She's doing amazing things. So thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. That was such a beautiful drop in that we got to have. And I was, I, you know, the reflection I had from our conversation is I, I got to witness your mind and your curiosity. And I was like thinking of, you know, how beautiful that is in, in your reflection. And it reminded me of like, just staying curious about getting to know people and, and yeah. So, so thank you for that reflection. It was really powerful. Yeah, no worries. You know, we should talk a little bit about the two-sixteen event and, and Psychedelic Playhouse and Jacob over there at two-sixteen and Jennifer, like all the people that are, what, how are you involved with District two-sixteen? Yeah, I got to know Jacob a couple years ago through another psychedelic connection here in LA. So I'm in LA. And we got to meet there. And then he invited me to come up and check out the space. And I've been able to attend and be able to participate and have a table at the marquee events. So I've been at two so far. And I'm actually really excited. I'm going to get to speak on a panel on August six coming up here in two Wednesdays. So yeah, I'm looking forward to that. I can't wait to learn more about it. It's so fascinating to see where the world is moving. And when I see events like that, when I see what you're doing, like I see the world evolving into more of like this edutainment. It seems like the world we've been living in is like this brittle chrysalis that we're beginning to break through and find our own way like just so much of what's going on out there so much is available to you if you're willing to have the courage to get out there and try it and that's kind of what I want to get into heather like you live this life that was you know you were part of the machine for a long time and then something happened man break it down for us Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, I was very blessed. And part of like, my business is called divine gift. And the meaning intention behind it is every conscious moment is our divine gift. So part of, you know, my gift was getting to have this lifelong experience of being part of the machine, you know, I had you know, a beautiful upbringing in, you know, very conventional America with, you know, education through college. And I went to, in the working world, I was an accountant for many years. And then I transitioned over to something that I thought was going to be a little bit more fulfilling. I became a buyer for a large corporation here and kind of worked my way up the corporate ladder. But there was always that itch kind of like of curiosity, like this isn't for me. And I remember kind of daydreaming about an exit strategy, but I just couldn't find one. And it was through, you know, my dad's cancer diagnosis back in twenty nineteen. He or actually it was twenty twenty that he was actually diagnosed. And I was watching his health deteriorate. And as I was witnessing that happening, I was starting to introspectively look inwards about how my life was going and how I was kind of following the same trajectory of what I witnessed with my family and getting a little bit more inquisitive of you know, how I'm spending my time here. So it actually brought me to psychedelics. So that was honestly like the catalyst to this whole journey I had before I found psychedelics. I was on so many pharmaceuticals. I was on SSRIs. I was on multiple SSRIs, benzos. I was on things to help me sleep. I mean, it was just a myriad of different pharmaceuticals just to help me get through the day. And I was also drinking heavily. And with psychedelics, you know, learning a little bit about, it was psilocybin first that I learned about. I realized I needed to get off pharmaceuticals in order to explore. And then, you know, I started working with mushrooms first, and then I kind of went down the rabbit hole. Now I'm like, I identify as a psycho, not now. I'm like, so, so into psychedelics. It's like wild because I actually didn't do any psychedelics before the first psychedelics, it was the first time I explored. So for around that time, so yeah. Like what? My experience has taught me, especially being in the world that we kind of both play in that sometimes around psychedelics, like there's this stigma of like, oh, you're just doing drugs to escape now. I'm like, what's wrong with you? Oh, you just quit. Like, you're not going to live this life anymore. Like what's wrong with you? And it makes people really uncomfortable when you start making changes in your life, especially when you bring in psychedelic as a catalyst, like that really throws people for a loop. Has that been your experience? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I was totally ostracized by my family and friends. And totally, it was like, what are you doing? And honestly, I was just like, starting to learn about more about spirituality and trusting and surrender and really what that meant and I was following the guidance it was actually through plant medicine through my first ayahuasca journey she like walked me um the grim reaper was there walking me down a hall of shame of all my co-workers pointing and laughing at me like you were meant for so much more in this existence but you chose the corporate life and um yeah my first journey she showed me also um stadium of people. And she's like, you're meant to help all these people with plant medicine. She like showed me my path, working with combo and, and all my things I get to share now. So yeah, and then I just kind of like followed that guidance and quit my job. I love that paid off. I mean, honestly, it's been the best decision I've ever made. Okay, so this is the crux. When you read through all the psychedelic literature, or you say you're starting to swim in these circles, or you're still swimming in these different circles, that sounds crazy. Probably to some of my listeners, you just quit your job? Wait, so you saw a vision of death telling you, you're in a stadium, you're meant for more than this. It's sort of this, it seems like the path is like... Both sides like inspiration and desperation, but like that is a bold move to leave everything that you have like that's a lot That's your identity. That's who your friendship. That's your family Like how do you walk through that like was it just inspiration or I'm sure that there was some places along the way We like am I doing the right thing? Oh my gosh, the whole time. I mean, still, not so much anymore, but it took years to finally be okay with trusting the process of the way things were going. But yeah, in the beginning, there was a lot of growing pains. And that's one of the things that I'm very passionate about. One of the things I do is I bring conscious community together here in LA and we put on conscious community events called the Conscious Collective. And I'm here to help support people. And when they're going through their awakening journey, a lot of the time, this happens where people start to lose, you know, family, friends, people that are still, you know, in that mindset of like, things have to be a certain way. And I really want people to feel community and support in that journey when you're embarking on this new adventure of you know, the true divinity of what this experience really is. So yeah, I definitely, I mean, I felt it all, everything you named, I was right there in the thick of it. I, you know, it was really challenging and I questioned almost every day, what am I doing? But I, what I learned from many teachers early on in this journey was the idea of trusting yourself and trusting your intuition and trusting the guidance. And I leaned so far into that. Like I like to tell people, like when you take the trust fall, it's like jumping out of an airplane, you know, with no parachute, you just got to go. And like, that's what you got to do, you know, and really just trust the guidance because we are so divinely guided in this experience. If we really lean into it, it's, And it gets so much more magical the more you trust. Yeah, I always think of the word awareness. Awareness and initiation always come to mind because once you start becoming more aware of what is possible, once you start becoming aware of how much you can trust the world around you, how much you can trust yourself, all of a sudden that door is like, hey, this has always been here. How come I haven't walked through here yet? But when I say awareness, what comes to your mind? Yeah, I mean, awareness is honestly such a critical part of this journey. And the thing that I have learned through this journey of this embarking on self-discovery and self-realization is awareness is like the first step. in order to be loving awareness to yourself and to the things around you. And it's really interesting because it's counter what the Western world teaches us. In our Western society, the way we're programmed in the operating system, we don't have space to have awareness. This is why so much disease and illness is plaguing our society today because there's no space for awareness. And awareness is the first step in this journey of being aware of why things are happening the way they do What is the path showing you? So, you know, this is something we do a lot of work with. The medicines I get to, you know, help people with and support people is, you know, we talk a lot about awareness and being aware of everything because everything is energy. So understanding how energy is, you know, living in you and creating your existence. So we learn a lot about how to, you know, manipulate and change energy within. Yeah. It's a brilliant answer. What about like, what do you do when you become aware that maybe you're not with the right person? What do you do when you become aware that you're trapped at a job you hate? Like, what do you do? Well, you know, I think the, the thing, the thing like I like to teach people and what like I really subscribe to is, you know, this idea of self inquiry of looking at, like for me, um, I work with something called like patterns. So like patterns of consciousness. So we all have patterns within our consciousness that are like operating systems in our brain. And I like to call it like, it's like windows, We have these like outdated program systems that never get upgraded. And it's so funny because like, you know, we go in and we get our cars tuned up and we get, you know, these upgrades. But our brains are running on old software and old patterns that are pretty outdated. So a lot of the work that we do with patterns is kind of looking at. how these patterns are running our day-to-day lives. So there are over ten different patterns in how the consciousness works, but there's things like hiding and avoiding, polarized thinking, black and white thinking, and there's a myriad of them, but basically looking at them and understanding and stepping into the state of awareness and then making change from that. So you can make updates to your software system so that they don't run the show anymore. Because once we start working on ourselves, it's like your energy field opens up completely and you're not stuck in that old software system. So there's a lot more. That's kind of like the Cliff Notes version. But yeah, it's really fun. It makes me want to come and hang out at the Conscious Collective and be part of a group of people that are like-minded. Well done on that. Thanks. It's such an honor to get to do these events, really. It's so beautiful. yeah it is and it seems contagious you know when I see some of these events and I've had the great fortune to go to quite a few of them there's something that happens it's it is contagious like you are the people you surround yourself with like you are that energy and if you can get some of that energy put into you all of a sudden it kind of starts spilling out and you start attracting these things in your life that you deserve Totally. And, and I love that saying of like, you are the five people you surround yourself with. And this is something like, I really encourage people to do like inventory of, you know, the people that are around you. Um, and I, I like to show like, there's like a frequency chart that, um, David R Hawking, there's a book called the, um, oh my gosh, I'm looking at it right now, letting go. And he has a frequency chart of like the frequencies at each level. So like, you know, authenticity, joy, gratitude, like these are all higher vibration. And then there's like, you know, shame and grief. And I like to have people evaluate after you spend time with somebody, where do you lie on the frequency chart? Because people are either going to raise your vibration or lower your vibration. And It's really, really imperative to be careful with your energy because this existence, as we know, is so short. We want to, like, really utilize our energy for our highest good and for the good of all because we're impacting everyone around us with our energy field. So, yeah. It's well said. Now, I have a first question coming in from the chat, and they say – This one comes to us from Desiree. Desiree, I love you. You're an amazing woman. She says, what do you think is the most dangerous lie society tells us? Oh my gosh. Thank you, Desiree. Thank you, Desiree. What an awesome question. Oh my God, I love this so much. It's funny, like something came in right away and I'm just going to trust it because it's the most dangerous lie, I think, is that not to trust ourselves. We're programmed from the gecko to look outside of ourselves, from our school system, from our medical society, like everything in this, I dare I say indoctrination system we're in. It's like the answer is not within when in this journey, in my last couple of years of self exploration, we always know the answer is always within. And that's what I get to do for myself and people I get to work with. I like to help them to learn how to trust yourself because it really liberates us. Right. This is like we're all meant to be free and sovereign and autonomous and how we experience this existence. And that's like. second now second nature for us so we're like we're getting to learn that but what's actually is our true our true nature of who we are you know when you look this is why we love children so much because they they are sovereign and they are free and and um so yeah it's it's really beautiful I think that um you know the whole not trusting ourselves is one of the biggest lies for sure Thank you, Desmond, for that question. Yeah, absolutely. Who else do we have coming in here? Okay, this one comes to us from Ranga from Toronto, and he says, what's one truth you were terrified to say out loud until you finally did? Oh, my God. These are great questions. I know. I've got the best audience in the world. Thank you, Ranga. Thank you, Ranga. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Oh, gosh. This is a tough one. It is. Yeah. I'm going to just go straight for it, you know, and, and this is like, this is just my truth. And like what I'm, I'm constantly working on is, um, I've had a really tough journey in learning how to love myself. You know, I was, I've been programmed from the get-go and God loved my family. They're so incredibly, they're my greatest teachers on earth, but I've been programmed to really hate myself, um, to really dislike who I am and really be so, so hard on myself. Um, And I'd say that's one of the things that's been, it's very liberating to share that though, because it's like, again, awareness. It's like, I'm aware of that and I'm conscious of it. So that is my life's work is to learn how to love myself and give myself grace and give myself compassion and go easy on myself. So that's, yeah, that was such an awesome question. Thank you. Yeah. I echo that as well, Ranga. For me, I think it's, when I have access to this, and I think a lot of people may have this, and if you're in the chat, chime in and let me know if you've ever experienced this, but it is like that negative self-talk. When something goes wrong, you're like, I deserve that. You know what, I suck at this, or excuse me. And you start looking at where that inner dialogue comes from, and it seems to be generational patterns. When I start digging down in the ditch, I'm like, oh, this is the way I was talked to. Oh, this is not even my voice. This is the voice of maybe my grandfather talking to my dad. I'm like, you know, when you begin to see it from that level, on some level it's overwhelming because you're like oh my gosh like it's always been going on how am I going to stop it but the fact that you're aware of it and the fact that you can see it from like a third person point of view I think becomes the catalyst to say hey wait a minute let me start talking to myself a little bit differently but it's really hard to say out loud because it feels on some level defeatist or it feels pathetic in some ways, like you're just wallowing in this self destructive patterns. But it's really hard to say out loud and admit the things. But those are the things that are hard to admit are the things that actually are the catalyst for change and becoming a better person. What are your thoughts on that? Totally. And what you hit on is that's so beautiful and so true. I would say the thing that's really coming up for me is in my journey of self-exploration, I think the non-identification to the mind and our thoughts is one of the most critical steps in this journey. And what you just shared about a lot of this is ancestral and programming that's been passed down to us that even our You know, parents don't even realize why it's happening. There's this really beautiful story. I don't know if you've ever heard of this girl is cooking a Christmas ham and she goes and like cuts the both ends off the ham and then goes and puts it in. And her daughter asked, Mom, why do you cut the ham, the ends off the ham like that? And she's like, I don't know. Let me ask my mom. And she calls the mom and the mom's like, yeah, we've always done it that way. I don't know. Let me ask my mom. And then she calls the grandmother and the grandmother was like, oh, it was because the stove was too small and we had to cut it to fit in the stove. They didn't know. They just kept doing it. And like, this is the story I love to share is like how much of our operating system is running on that same dialogue, right? That we just have no clue. We're just like, oh, it's just because that's the way we've been shown. And we just don't know. And And the thing that you were sharing that really was coming through strong is the idea of like non-attachment to like not being attached to these ideas that we're having and just kind of looking at them from the observer and from the awareness standpoint of like, okay, so. this might not be mine. How can I make change from this? Cause it's all a choice. Like we get to choose the things we attach, like the thoughts we attach ourselves to. So that's part of the fun that we get to look at with this work. So. It just underscores the beauty of storytelling and how transformative and how powerful the stories we not only tell ourselves, but we share with other people can be liberating. And it brings me to one of my favorite topics, which is language. And when for people that love psychedelics, there's all this nomenclature around psychedelics, like, oh, you can take a trip or you're going to get high. But when I think about that, I can't escape the parallels between taking a psychedelic trip and taking an actual trip. And I know you have done both. Recently, you have been on a really incredible tour where you've been sharing with lots of people these incredible experiences, like taking a camel through the eye of the needle or checking out all these incredible places. But I'm curious, can you draw a parallel between taking a trip, like a psychedelic journey alone, and then taking a trip out to some of these places you've been doing? Yeah, that's such a rad question. Thank you. These questions are so cool. I love talking to you, by the way. Thank you. We can do this every day if you'd like. Yes. So I would say, you know, it's so beautiful because I, the thing I love to share about plant medicine and like all these different psychedelics we get to work with is they create the bridge, right? They show us the path, but in order for us to get over the bridge, we have to walk the path. Like, or like, there's the beautiful analogy of like, you know they are um the railing but we have to walk up the steps you know like we have to use so for me I would say like the real work lies you know in the integration and on my actual trips of like times like just very candidly I there were times on the trip where like you know it was really challenging so I got to travel to nine countries this year I gifted myself um four months of complete freedom. So it was my fortieth birthday in April. So I took four months and just let myself go wherever I wanted to. I let spirit guide the trip and I started in India and I went to the Kumbh Mela and I got to jump in the Ganges River. It's amazing. I don't know if you're familiar with the festival, but four hundred and fifty million people go and it only happens every twelve years. And it's based on the way the planets are aligned. It amplifies the healing properties of the Ganges. So it is The theory is that it heals and purifies multiple lifetimes of karma when you jump in the river during this time based on the planetary alignment. And the one that was happening this year in twenty twenty five was the Mahakumala, which happens every one hundred and forty four years. So it was truly a once in a lifetime opportunity to get to go and do that. And the point is, I underwent quite a bit of challenges after that experience. And now I see why it all happened. because that was part of my karmic contract because I got actually really sick right after it. And I went through a series of things. I'm in the midst of actually writing a book, so I'll be sharing more soon about it. But yeah, so the point is I underwent a series of challenges that were forcing me to like look at a lot of my psychedelic journeys that I hadn't fully integrated you know things that I had been shown before but I was still working through like the beautiful art of slowing down and listening to my body I was making myself sick because I was running on the operating system of like I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to travel like this again let's go to nine countries in four months and like And like, you know, that, that frequency of like my very first IA journey, another thing she showed me as the white rabbit of like, you're going to be late. You're going to be late, you know, like constantly in that frequency. And she's like, is that really how you want to show up in this existence? I'm like, Oh no, of course not. But my operating system, that's how I run. And I literally run like thinking like, I'm not going to have an opportunity to do this again. And through my journey, I was like, Oh, I can do this anytime. Really like, We all can do that anytime. It's like, so to answer your question, I don't even know if that answered your question, but I think, you know, the real work lies in this three D world. You know, we get to do these beautiful psychedelic journeys and go out there and in the cosmos and experience this quantum, incredible healing experiences, but the real work lies on the trip and being with yourself and integrating what you've learned. Yeah, it's so beautiful. I know that on a lot of the psychedelic journeys that I take and for those listening, the way I usually take them is I'll take some pretty large doses. I like to microdose in between those large doses. But for me, it's the larger doses where I'm alone and I really have time to try to think about things. and I try to go in with intention and that works sometimes but sometimes what happens is all of a sudden this thing that was in the back of your mind just pops up and it translates to the real world trips that I take like in the psychedelic journey I'll be thinking about or I'll see this crazy you know spiral or this incredible five-dimensional object that I can't explain and I start thinking about connections and then I'll be having a conversation with my wife a couple days later and I'll almost see that image again and I'll realize I need to connect here know but I can't help escape the connections between the simulated journey or the psychedelic journey or the trips that I go on you know it's it's it's it's really like a an otherworldly communication and I come up against the ineffable and stuff like that but I really think there's there's there's real things that are happening between the psychedelic journey and the real life that you can integrate when you do so it just makes a whole lot more sense okay Absolutely. And that's the real work in doing these experiences is like implementing what we're being shown. And it's almost like in every move and every choice we make, we're getting these little tests of things. It's like, did you learn the lesson or are we going to get the same lesson over again? So it's like. we're constantly being reminded of things that are here for, it's all for our growth too. That's the thing that's really beautiful. And that's part of the reason why my business is divine gift is like every conscious moment is our gift and it is an offering for us and our, and our soul's evolution. So it's a matter of like, if we're going to, you know, which choice we're going to make, which journey, which gift are we going to unwrap, you know? I do know. You know, it kind of brings up one issue that I kind of see happening in the world of psychedelics today is that it can be an escape. You know what I mean by that? Like if you look at Huxley's like Brave New World versus Huxley's book, The Island. In Brave New World, people are using Soma to sort of escape and like, okay, I got to get away from my life for a little bit. And that can be helpful. But at some point, it seems like a disassociative may be actually prohibiting you from living your best life. And I don't know where that shakes out in the world of psychedelics. But I can imagine that it could be used that way. Do you see that aspect of it? Or do you think that we might be in danger in psychedelics? Or what can we do to make sure that everyone kind of stays on the right path there? Yeah, this is actually a really critical point. And this is something I like to share in any time I get to share, you know, in these experiences is like, when you when someone goes to sit in a psychedelic experience, and you mentioned it earlier, like intention is everything like you really want to use these experiences, like for your highest good. and using them with reverence and respect and honor and gratitude so that you are bringing that energy into the experience and so that you are actually using this for your growth and not using it as another disassociative, another experience, because it can become like that, right? Yeah, totally. Back when I was using pharmaceuticals and alcohol, It was just like drinking every day. I was like, oh, I had a tough day at work. I just got to have a glass of wine. And then, oh, I deserve another one. And these little lies we tell ourselves. And psychedelics, yes, can become the same thing if you're not using them with reverence, with intention, with respect, with honor, and then also integrating what they're here to teach us. Because it can become just another band-aid, just like those other things are. And that's when it can become dangerous. And that's why I like to share about, you know, being very careful with who you're sitting with, with these experiences, you know, because it is really beautiful to have these experiences, but doing it with like a trained professional can be very helpful because I've learned through my journey, like being able to expand upon what you're experiencing in the journey. it's really amazing when you have a trained facilitator to help you understand what you're witnessing and what you're experiencing. So really vetting people before you sit with them, like that's like the most important thing in this space is making sure that you're in trusted hands that are going to allow this experience to help change your life so that it doesn't become just another pharmaceutical alcohol type thing, you know? I do know. It brings up another flashpoint for me, though, because I have worked out so much of my own like just garbage, like stuff that I was operating on. It was a false premise. And I, you know, I really worked through some deep things and I did it primarily alone. I don't I don't know that that's the best way for people to do it. But in my through my lens of experience, like going it alone has seemed to be really helpful for me. And then I talked, like, I'm so blessed to get to talk to really cool people like yourself and all these trained facilitators. But the question always comes up for me, like, what is a trained facilitator going to help you do? Like, they may be able to help guide you through some things. And I should clarify. If you're using psychedelics because you have a real trauma, maybe you have an eating disorder, or maybe you've lost a loved one, or maybe there's a real trauma, maybe you're bipolar or something like that, then I think that the road of seeking out a real professional is something you should do. But for most people, I think they can really benefit from a healthy dose of, holy shit, this is crazy. How do I make sense of this? And that chaos is something that only you as an individual can solve. What is your take on going it alone versus seeing a facilitator? Yeah, that's a really great question. And honestly, I think it depends on the individual and what their experience is and where they're at in their journey, right? So somebody like you, George, you were at a juncture that you could go at it alone. And you have enough tools in your toolkit to understand how to... integrate. You sound like you're really well-read and you understand the psychedelic space. Somebody like yourself, that's beautiful and that works for you. I know myself, when I started this journey, I couldn't go at it alone. I knew just because I I was terrified to try psychedelics and I didn't even like, cause I was in the Nixon programming of like, this is your brain on drugs. Like, you know, the, the, I had that vision of the eggs and like, I was like, Oh my God, this is going to happen to me and I'm going to be a mess. And I was in that indoctrination. So like I had to seek out support and helping me understand what was happening. And over the years I've been so blessed to always find the right person at the right time and, to help me navigate whatever it was I had to work through. So I think it depends on the person. So again, like back to the question from Desiree earlier is like, what's the biggest lie we've been told? It's like, trust yourself. You know, if you know that you can do this alone, go do it you know but like if you're scared like I was seek out a trained professional or support system because there's people out there that we're here like I'm here for this like this is what I'm here to do is help people that are ready to explore themselves and this is I do this like like you don't know me personally but twenty four hours a day seven days a week like I am in it, in this world. So like, I'm so dedicated to my growth to help support people that are ready to like dive in with me. Like I just got to do a little bit of personal growth work with a mentor around my, like my mission and what I'm here to do. And she asked me about like what type of clients I want to call in. And I was like, I want people that are ready to go balls deep. I don't know how to say that, but like I'm ready for people that really want to go deep within themselves because that's what I'm here for. And I know there's a lot of people out there that are ready for that, too. So, yeah, that's what I'm excited to share with people. Yeah, I'm a big fan of burning the bridges. I know that that's like, that's like, wait a minute, George, I've burned some bridges I shouldn't have burned before. But on some level, it's that fear. And like you mentioned earlier that like you were scared out of your mind, you're frightened, you have this programming, but There's something in that fear. There's something in the surrender to the chaos that allows you to be comfortable with who you are. It's such a pivotal part of it. That fear is so necessary. And I think it comes from respecting the medicine on some level. You should be afraid. If you take a giant dose, you should be very afraid because you don't know what's going to happen. That's normal. It's healthy. But it's weird to say normal and healthy and be scared out of your mind to do something. Yeah, and one of my teachers always say that there's no such thing as normal. That's so true. If somebody tells you this is normal, there's no such thing. Who is to say that this is normal or this is weird or this is... These words we attach to things, they have stigmas attached to it. Yes. No, like really just like one of the things I like for people to really sit with is like feeling your feelings and feeling what's truly coming up. Because one of the things I like to share with people is like fear is false evidence appearing real. So we have these things and it's kind of back to what we were talking about earlier of these like. things that we've been told or taught or programmed with. And a lot of the time, it's like, when you ask questions, like, well, why, why do you feel that way? Why? You know, we go down that rabbit hole, it's like, I'm not sure, actually, we just pick up these things, and then they become part of our identity. And when you really break it down, it's like, oh, I don't have to think this way anymore, operate like this. So Yeah. It's we're just cutting off both sides of the ham, right? What about like the generational divide, Heather? Like, so as a, as an intelligent, powerful young woman, who's turned forty, I'm coming up on fifty and I feel like we being in our age range, like we sit at this weird precipice where we have a view of the older generation and we also have a view of the younger generation. And psychedelics seem to be this catalyst of like, you know, there seems to be this pretty big generational divide that we're looking at right now. How do you as someone that's a facilitator and works with psychedelic, how do you bridge that gap and be sort of a mediator between the older generation and the younger generation? Yeah, that's a really great question. And one of the things I witnessed with this is so this is just what I've learned through my journey and people that are a little bit more experienced and have a little bit more life under their belt. It can be hard. a little more challenging to be able to break through some of the patterns and the operating systems, just because they're engraved in our default mode network and how we're operating. So a lot of the time when people are a little bit older, it takes a little bit more dedication and discipline in order to start deep diving into their self exploration work. So people like that, I really like encourage them to like go in and really do the work. and like spending the time on themselves where I noticed younger generations, like younger ages, they, I've known, I'm witnessing like they're coming in with like a lot less karma, a lot less like energetic baggage. It feels like it's like, there's a whole shift happening from generation to generation. But yeah, I would say it takes like a little more discipline and I've been very blessed to be like in this, part of the generational gap where I feel it's taken me a lot of dedication and discipline, but I also know I have a lot more work to do. And I, I say that as in like, I want to help people that are older than me too, that still have that work that they are, get to do to in order to move through. So yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely very different, though. And it's a case by case. It's like, it's hard to say, though, because it's like, every individual is so different, right? Like there, there is the generational ties, but everybody has different motives and different experiences and different patterns. So Case by case. I love it. I always geek out on these questions. Like I was talking to Gareth Moxie, who's like a really incredible practitioner in Iboga. And we were talking briefly about, you know, about what it means to be someone that provides medicine for other people. Someone else, I was talking to the Fishleys. If anybody's out there and wants to learn about Iboga, check out Gareth Moxie and the Fishleys. They're really incredible at what they do. Also check out the Awake Network with Lakshmi. They're really big on Iboga and they're doing some really cool stuff. But one of the things that kind of came up for me was with this whole sort of psychedelic renaissance, there's sort of a wave of facilitators coming out there. And one of the questions that I asked Gareth and the Fishleys is like, how can I, or someone like I'm and what, what about someone who's or what about someone who's should they be going to someone who's like, can someone who's a year old facilitator really have the knowledge or the experience to help out someone older than them? I'm sure there are cases, but it seems like maybe we should be looking to find facilitators that have at least more experience than us. What is your thoughts on that? That's a really great question. And, um, you know, my, my first instinct to answer that question is I do feel that everything is energy and like, I will hang my hat on that. And I just feel like I have so much to learn from the younger generation and people that are younger than me. I'm constantly, and it's about like, sitting in the seat of what I was reflecting to you earlier of curiosity and actually being a student to this experience. So it's like every single person in this journey can be a teacher for us. It's a matter of if we can let go of the judgment, let go of the ego, let go Cause we're here to like learn from one another. And if you are guided to somebody that is younger, like there's a very good chance you're going to learn quite a bit and it's based on your experience with them. And, and yeah, you know, um, but yeah, I understand what you're saying though, in terms of like experience and if they have the life, um, you know, to stack up and to be able to share with you, but there's a very good chance that they might have it in a different way, you know, and in a different experience. So, yeah, I think it varies. Yeah, it's a great point. So much of the teaching seems to be in the CD. You know, there's that old quote that says, the teacher shows up and the student is ready. Yeah. For a minute, What is the benefit of doing it here versus doing it there? So much of that research, I think, develops into ripe fruit during the journey. But it's so much the thinking, I think, that is a powerful part of the transformation. Would you agree with that? Yeah, totally. Sorry, you were kind of breaking up there. But do you mind just saying the last part about that? I don't know if it was my end. Yeah, I think it might be mine. There we go. That sounds a little better. So much of the thinking. have a little bit of static. However, so much of the seeking, like the research you do before going somewhere to do a ceremony, the research you do before doing the ceremony with yourself, sourcing the medicine, sourcing the teacher, like so much of that seeking seems to be part of the journey. Yeah. And that's all part of the experience. And I would say, you know, kind of going back to the whole, like trusting yourself and trusting the, you know, the guidance of where you're going. I think that's a big part of the experience because, you know, Terrence McKenna, I think it's Terrence McKenna or I forget who says it, but there's like set and setting, right? Like everything is all about set and setting. So it's, you know, all the energy that goes into the experience will help, you know, either have a an uplifting experience or you could potentially be shown, you know, I like to tell people, cause I hear this a lot where people say I had a bad trip and I'm like, there's no such thing as a bad trip, honestly. And like, I'd like to ask people the question of like, well, what happened? And nine times out of ten, once they explained to me, what it was, it was actually something in their subconscious that was trying to come to light. And a lot of the time it's anxiety and it's stuff that we were accumulated through our whole life and the mushrooms or, or any psychedelics are here to show us what our biggest roadblocks are and what are the things that are actually stopping us from our growth and our evolution. And we hold onto these, you know, the operating systems of, um, not being able to, you know, understand how these things are running the entire show. So yeah, there's a, there's a lot around that though. So. It's a brilliant point. It's a brilliant point. We got, I'm going to bring in some more people from the chat here. This one comes to us from Betsy. Betsy says, what role does psychedelics altered states or deep states of listening play in rewriting the future? Oh, These questions are like ten out of ten. So good. Thank you. Thank you, Betsy. Well, Betsy, I got to tell you a wild story that just happened to me that I'm still trying to integrate what just happened. But there's this trend going around on Instagram where if you take a red laser and point it at the wall and then you do DMT, You can see numbers and letters in the red laser. And I did it the other day and I saw the code. I was like, what is happening here? I don't, I don't really understand. I can't really speak to what that was or what it is. I need to like investigate it. I just wanted to try it. So to answer Betsy's question, I mean, there's something that's really been sticking with me from that experience is There's this incredible person named Robert Edward Grant. Do you know him? I don't. Okay, so I'm speaking very vaguely because I also don't know a lot about him. But I do know that he's been studying human consciousness for a very long time. And he's created his own AI called The Architect. And he's basically taken information that he's collected through his studies through the years of... Basically, five D intelligence. So like this fifth dimensional intelligence, which a lot of the time psychedelics can bring us to this this space that exists and it's available to all of us. And these psychedelics can help be a portal to bring us to these places in an easier or a bridge or whatever we want to call it. And what I. I'm wondering is, you know, people can do Akashic records readings and Akashic records is that, you know, all this is written, you know, everything, this experience is all like information and in five D. there's no emotions or feelings, like it's just all written, right? So a part of me was wondering if I was getting a glimpse into the five D of like, just, this is all written. This is just like code and information. So, you know, I don't know how much, because we have free will and choice, right? So this is like a paradox for me, because I don't really understand. And this is so new that I'm just currently exploring it myself. And I love her question because I don't even know how to answer it. Like, I don't know, like, why did I like, why did I just choose this past partner that like broke my heart and actually like, you know, or why did I like, why am I doing things that are hurting me? You know, it's like, but I guess it's part of my growth. I'm growing from these things. So yeah, so I don't know. I love your question, Betsy, but I don't really know how to answer it. It's a deep one. You know what? Let me back up and talk about that experiment again. Cause I've seen people that I've never done it myself, but I've, I know Andrew Gilmore talks about it in his book and I've seen some of the videos and I've seen like the guy on psych substances kind of talk about it, but what was that like for you? So DMT is a rather quick, right? Like if you take a hit, like you have like a few minutes in this other state, how are you able to not be just given up to the the death by astonishment like so you so you you you go into this realm and then you got the laser right there can you run us through it and then tell us what you saw yeah so um I I had the laser set up I did it with a friend and we had the laser set up and we did it in a dark room and um yeah we um it took a couple rounds to get us into the frequency of like being able to fully like blast off and see it. Cause there was a first like two times I didn't really see anything. I was like, Oh no. And then, Oh, I know. I was like, Oh, it doesn't work. And then I was like, all right, let me try one more time. And I took like a bigger hit, um, of the pen. And yeah, that was when, um, yeah it was like a a full surrender moment actually I think that was what it was where I was able to like drop into the frequency and not let my mind trying to like make manufacture it this is the thing that I learned constantly and I have one this tattoo and it's surrender on my wrist so it's like I can just remember to let go of the mind because our mind is what blocks us from these like you know, magical, mystical experiences. So I think it was when I was able to drop into the place of full surrender and just like, okay, if I see it, I see it. And then I saw. And so what happened was it was really short. It was only like, like probably less than a minute that I could see it, but it was like numbers and letters. And I, I was like far away from the laser and I got up and like got close to the laser and I tried to like, I was trying to like zoom into it. And as I got closer, it got further away. So, so it was like, I couldn't actually like see what it was. Cause I was like, I wanted to read it. I was like, what is it? Like write down some of the numbers and letters that see if I can decode it. But as I got closer, I couldn't see anything. It was got further away. And then I, As I was like really close, it started to dissipate. I actually saw it like disintegrate and go back to the laser beam. So yeah, it was wild. You know, that sounds to me so much like like on a high dose of maybe LSD or particularly mushrooms, like it comes in these waves and things are so clear, especially like the ideas, like they become so clear, like you can reach out and touch them. And for a moment, the clarity is blinding and like, I got it. And then you try to remember it and you're like, I don't remember anything, you know? But that's what I think of when you say I get close to it and it gets further away. Like it's so tricky. Totally. I mean, that's what it is, right? It's like this idea of like wanting to control things. It's a metaphor for life, right? Like we want to manipulate and control things and make it like, like I wanted to decode. I was like, oh, maybe I'll crack the code of this experience in these, in these codes. And then, you know, as I got closer, it was like, ah, girl, you ain't getting that. It's like, of course. Of course. I love that. Like that, that, that hits home for me because maybe that is the, maybe that's the teaching is like, you don't get to control it. Like, don't you see, you don't get to control it. The more, the more you want to control it, the more it's like a fistful of sand, the tighter you grip, like the more the sand is spilled through your hand. That's the key. That's it. Okay, this one comes to us. This one's coming to us from, who is this coming from? I don't see a name on here. If this is your question, please put it in the chat. They say, if language itself is evolving, how do we speak love and truth in a world that doesn't yet have the words? Oh, I love that question so much. Oh my gosh. So I've actually, all right, I'll just, I'll tell you what's coming to mind. And it's pretty wild because I haven't shared this a lot, but, um, I was in, I got to go to Egypt recently and in my experience, um, I went into the pyramids in Giza and I got to do a meditation in one of the tombs. And when I was in this meditation, it was one of the most profound experiences in my life. It was like being in like a plant medicine experience itself. It was all this like information was pouring in. And one of the things that was coming through really strong that is a challenge with our society today is the idea of how our minds are getting in the way of the heart. So our heart has its own intelligence system. It has its own operating system that actually has information available to us. But the reason why our society is struggling so much today is because we're living so much in the headspace. And they were showing me the ancient Egyptian civilizations, they lived in their heart space. And there's this beautiful painting, I think it's called Judgment Day. And it was when the ancient Egyptians were going to the afterlife, they would take the, they would actually take the brain and throw it out. And then they would take the heart and put it on a scale with a feather. And if the heart weighed more than the feather, then they would actually be eaten by one of, I forgot his name, but one of the gods, the deities that they believed in, and they wouldn't be able to go to the afterlife. So they believe that we carry energy in our heart. So like our heart holds, you know, grief and shame and all these things that we carry with us. And part of our human experience is to not carry this energy, like making our heart light as a feather. So like literally like that's the painting and it's so beautiful. And I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately and the idea of, you know, this idea of like how we're programmed to be like constantly thinking and you know, evaluating and just in this, the brain space where like they threw the brain out because the brain was like kind of useless in the afterlife. And it was like, our heart was the most important organ in order to like transition us forward. And to this question, I think the thing that I'm learning in my journey is like, how does my heart feel? Like, what is the heart telling us? Because the heart is where, all of our intelligence. And I believe that this is what's taking us forward in our journey. My belief is that this isn't the end. We're going to reincarnate and come back. And there's true wisdom that we gain from these experiences. And a lot of it is through our heart space. So the question was about language. So I think language actually is coming from the brain. So the words we choose and the things, a lot of the words we choose is basically just from also our programming and conditioning and the way we operate in this experience. Whereas the real truth is the energy and the feelings and the the resonance, right? Like the energy you feel when you experience someone or you're with somebody, or like, these are all like way more important than the words that you hear. Right. Cause you, we know this, like when we, when we talk to somebody, like they can say things and then, you know, you could leave feeling completely different than what the words that were exchanged were, um, just because of the energy resonance from the experience. So, um, I don't know. I think one of the things I'll also share about this is if it's okay, I don't know if we're okay. Yeah, please. Absolutely. Because I, I also contemplate this quite a bit too. There's, do you know Dr. Zach Bush? I don't know him. No. Oh, he's amazing. So he, I got to hear him speak last year, a year ago, last August at a festival called Medicine Fest, which is, the best festival on earth and it's dedicated to like it actually came through a vision in ayahuasca they wanted to bring people together um in dedication to all of this that we're talking about medicine and anyways I got to hear him speak and one of the things he shared during the talk was about how um thousands of years ago uh us as human beings we didn't have spoken word and that you know, we all, we had telepathic communication and we actually spoke to the animals and the trees and nature. And like, we were all in like one frequency of unity of like all understanding this experience together. And the thing that took us out of it was spoken word, like the fall of Babel. And then when things changed over human evolutionary experience, it actually created divide, it created separation and, you know, it's so fascinating to me when I think about how, you know, the spoken word can actually create more problems for us than good when we're supposed to be here in gratitude, in reverence, in community with the earth, you know, we are part of the earth and all of these things. So I don't know. I think I'm rambling now, but it makes perfect sense. I'm with you. You know what I mean? Um, I just, that's fascinating to me in, in that the spoken word is actually created more divisiveness than unity. And, um, um yeah I don't know I love it and if I could pull on that thread a little bit further like there's a great book by julian james called the um consciousness of the bicameral mind I think it's called I might not be exactly but if you just google julian james you guys will see it's called the breakdown in the bicameral mind and it talks about the left hemisphere and the right hemisphere also ian mcgillchrist if people are interested he writes a book called the master and his emissary and what he talks about is very similar to how you are breaking it down like the left hemisphere of the brain is like this analytical scalpel that just dives into like what do they mean by that here's what that means but it's so far removed from the right hemisphere or maybe the heart language that we're supposed to speak like you know that that language speaks in beautiful metaphors and analogies and it sees the big picture and it sees these giant concepts and it speaks back to the idea of awareness that we were talking about When you do meet someone, like when we met the first time or other people that you and I have really aligned with, it's like I get a sense of who they are. And it's more than words. It goes far beyond the language they're speaking. Like I can feel it. I can be in their presence and I can feel something beautiful about it. Like that is a language that we're not really too aware of. Yeah, we feel it, but we don't really act on it as much as we should. Right. Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing. I think we're like starting to, we're starting to understand. And this is the part that it's like, I get like full goosebumps thinking about this. Like, this is why we're here at this time is to witness the transformation of this happening on the planet right now. So one of my teachers says, you know, this is like, we're witnessing a shift in human consciousness where it's the first time where they're actually like, we are, changing on a DNA structural level of how things are changing. And you can either focus, it's like a baby is being born. So you can either focus on the blood splattering everywhere of, you know, what they are showing us on the news and, you know, Or you could focus on the baby being born of like, wow, like telepathic communication is real. Like energy resonance is real. Like all of these things that we're getting attuned to and remembering is like, we're getting to witness like a huge shift in our experience. And it's really incredible that we get to be alive at this time and witness that happening. So Yeah, it's really fun. I want to talk about this, but I can't let the fact that you got to meditate in a pyramid escape me. That is freaking amazing. Can you walk us just a little bit more through that? First off, the whole change of landscape, and you're at this structure that's been built on the thirty-third parallel, and so many people have gone there forever to find the secrets. What was that like? It was so wild. I actually was told the first day I went there not to go inside because it was dangerous. And I was like, this is so weird. And actually, this is how... much I trust spirit and the guidance I left egypt I went back to egypt because I got guidance I needed to go inside the pyramids and meditate like I I some things happened I like met people I met somebody when I was in jordan and she told me a story about you know spending time inside and I was like it was so weird they told me not to go inside it was dangerous and so I went back and anyways and this is why I went back because it was honestly, it's really hard to even put into words how incredibly powerful it was to be inside of there. And one of the things they were showing me in my meditation is the pyramids are, um, they're like a battery pack for the earth. They're actually like energetic, um, charging stations for us. They actually like recharge our batteries and we're little batteries too. So like, we're actually like, you know, positive, negative energies that like, you know, work around and we bump it into each other. Like, do we charge each other up or do we, you know, like, and like the, these, the energetic resonance of the pyramids are actually, um, recharging stations. And, um, Yeah, it was really profound to get to be in there and have that experience. And there was a lot of things that came through that I think if I shared, people would think I lost it. But yeah, there's stuff about aliens. I mean, it's all happening and it's all real and Yeah, I don't know. It's really cool, though. It's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. I have never spoken to anybody that's had that experience. And probably many of my listeners haven't either. So thank you for sharing that. It's a beautiful opportunity. And the fact that you went back and I could only imagine someone telling you not to do something is like a clarion call for you to do it. I know. It's so funny because I was like kicking myself afterwards because I was like, of course, like I wanted to go in. That was part of the intention. And then this tour guide was like, no, it's dangerous. You don't want to go in there. It's claustrophobic and hot. And then I realized after that, like they didn't want us to go in there because of the power of it. And I was like, oh, of course, I need to go back. So. I'm so glad I did. I mean, it was a life changing experience to be in there for that. What? So it does sound like they're like, Hey, we don't want you to go in there. But was it an option? Like, is it something that you're allowed to do, but you have to ask them to do or? Yeah. And you just got to pay extra to go in there. It's not like a big deal. It was just like, yeah, I don't know my own journey of like learning to trust myself. It was like a test, right? Like, do you trust yourself? And I was like, Oh no, this guy told me not to. And I didn't trust. And then, you know, I get that lesson almost every day. So yeah, I'm still learning. It's like building a muscle. It's like the more you start trusting yourself, the better the outcomes can, can really bring out what's supposed to come out for your ripening, your consciousness. Like what's the, this one comes to us from Xavier. Xavier says, what's one thing you've done lately. that brought your soul online again? Ooh, that's a great question, Xavier. Um, wow. My soul is like so online right now. I mean, I guess I, I, um, I don't know. Let me think what would be a good answer. Cause there's so like so many things like I, I feel really, really alive right now. Cause I just got to do a festival this weekend and, um, I had a table just sharing about all this stuff about like the conscious collective mostly, but also about like the ceremonies I facilitate. And that really like brings my soul alive, getting to talk about these experiences and share with people. Let me just see if there's anything else making my soul feel alive. I mean, honestly, just, I think like for me, it's these moments of that I get tested to that are really important of like, do I, it's like every moment is a choice of like how we get to show up in this experience. And one of the things also I learned from Dr. Zach Bush, cause he's done a lot of death doula work too. And he was sharing that the number one thing when people die, they say when they have like a near death experience and they come back is people say they feel like they were wearing a mask the whole time, that they were conforming to something else. And one of the things that I feel, and we've learned now that authenticity is the highest vibration and it's above love. So showing up as your most authentic self and being true to who you are, I think these are the moments that like my soul feels so online. You know, the idea of like, being who I am and being who I'm meant to be like those are the moments that really like feel liberating and freeing and um I feel so alive and lit up by that being able to share that with people and and it's it's been such an honor because my life in in the way I get to experience this this life right now is I find myself getting to do this like all the time you know this isn't who I was a couple just a few years ago and getting to be like a human permission slip for people to say, like, it's OK, like, trust yourself. Like, it's OK. Like, you know, in honoring who you are and who you're meant to be, because you're actually going to get so much more out of this experience if you just, you know, be who you want to be. And then everybody else gets to feel freedom just from you feeling freedom. So, yeah, I would say, like, you know, just in being in that authentic frequency, is really like the most liberating and soul fulfilling experience. So this brings up another, are you okay on time, Heather? I've taken us over an hour. Okay. No, no, no. I'm good. So this brings up another question for me, like, being in the dark, being around the darkness. And for me, that's been around people I love dying. Like my wife has cancer, my son had passed away. And I know when I was reading some of your bio, you talk about your dad getting cancer. And I look at your journey, I'm looking at like the older, like it seems like the old Heather Mack died. Like the girl that was doing these different pills and like caught up in this race for external validation. And I think so many of us do. But it seems to me it's these encounters with death being in your own life with people you love or being around it like. it's those, it's those that really ignite the fire for you to live. And I was curious if you could maybe talk about what, maybe why that is. Have you experienced that? I know that your father had cancer. Like, what is it about these real life, end of life experiences that allow us to live more free? Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And yeah, it's, it's been interesting. an interesting journey and definitely this whole death and rebirth thing. And I actually, I think the most transformative thing for me in this journey has, so my dad actually transitioned in twenty twenty three and I got to be there with him while he was transitioning. And we were kind of expecting it, but it was a little sudden. He had a stroke and I got to be there like by his side while he was transitioning. And the thing that was really beautiful about that experience was, you know, he was in a coma and he was completely out and, you know, he was just being kept alive by machines. And he was like a vegetable and I got to, you know, ask for a moment alone with him. And I got to share with him, you know, just basically how much I loved him and how much I forgave him because my dad was, he loved the bottle and, you know, he loved to, take his aggression out on his kids. And, and, and, you know, I just let him know how much I forgave him. And I didn't want him to carry that with him and wanted him to let it go. And while I was saying that to him, he, there was tears streaming down his eyes. And I was like, Hmm, You know, and then it was really funny because he was on life support and then, um, you know, we were making the decision and he always said, you know, if this happened, he's like, don't keep me on machines. I want to go, you know, he was very like stoic like that. And, uh, he is very stoked with that. And, um, he, we, we went outside to talk to the doctors and said, you know, we, uh, made the decision. We're going to like, let him, you know, pull the plugs and whatever. And then we went back in, it was just my mom, my brother and I, and we were standing there with him And while we were there, he loved the Beatles. So we were singing the Beatles to him. And while we were sitting there singing with him, he actually transitioned while we were there. And we were laughing because we were like, oh, he didn't want anyone pulling the plug. He made the decision when it was time to go. And that was his sense of humor. He was like, no one's going to do that. He is just like an old stoic dude. And the thing I like to share about this is being there and witnessing that experience with him was um truly transformative for me because you know I had the idea that like death wasn't the end but I was really I've witnessed especially since I mean my life he he left to and he's come to me and told me this he's guiding me he's protecting me he's with me like all the time um I have incredible little like reminders and signs that come up that he is with me. So in sharing that, it feels like, you know, in my journey, being there with my father and then, you know, my father's passing has been one of the biggest blessings in my life and seeing how, you know, death isn't the end. And the thing that's really beautiful in learning from that is that we have so much fear around death. that, you know, it's the end and oh my gosh. And it's like, it's not really the end. And it's actually just like a beautiful transition point. And, you know, I don't know. It's, it's, it brings a lot of peace and solstice to the, to my life. You knowing that and helping shift like the fear of death, I think is, is a big transformational topic is, when people can really like face their fear of death and transform the transmute the energy, that can be a really big team game changer. Man, that's such a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that with me and everybody else. Like it's, And it brings up such a salient point. Like we all, this may sound cliche, like we all die, but how many people really live? And like, that sounds to me like your story. And it's so many people we talk to. And I know that you have some friends that are death doers and you hear this story about people just holding on to the anger or not forgiving and trust me I know and I'm sure you do too and so many of the listeners out here ranga desiree betsy everybody xavier everybody like it's so hard to forgive these these sort of things that happen to you like you just hold on to them but the more you think about like why are you holding you're holding on to them because they allow you to feel something but if you let them go like it frees up so much more it I know it's easy to say but it's a tough thing to do and I need to work on being better at forgiving people before they transition. And I think more people could really benefit from that, right? And it seems like the next generation, there's so many people we love. There's such a big class of the last generation that are getting close to the transition. And I think that's a lot of the anxiety we're feeling in this world. If you look at how many leaders are in their seventies or eighties or heads of industry, they're just holding on without really getting to live what, with their family. I don't know. Is that too deep? Is that too crazy? No, no. That actually like brought a tear to my eye. Thank you for that. And I think like I'm working on too, you know, like the forgiveness is like, there's a saying like, you know, forgiveness, it's not forgiving the other person. It's like forgiving yourself, you know, like, can we forgive ourselves for holding on? Cause like, you know, the Buddha, I have like a little Buddha painting here. That's my little Buddha. And like one of the Buddha sayings I love is, you know, holding on to like anger or resentment is like holding onto a hot coal. We're just hurting ourselves. Right. It's like, why? Like, this is the energy that like, it's, it's, it's, um, inhibiting us from life, you know, the experience that you're speaking to and being alive and feeling all of the, the things we're here to do. Um, yeah, I really, I feel very, you know, passionate about, about that. And, and, um, myself too I I'm working on it too so I'm right there with you it's part of the human experience yeah I think that this is there's great promise for psychedelics and end of life you know I was speaking with a doctor a while back and he told me that he was sitting with people that are in hospice and terminal and they were giving them some psilocybin and they they were going through this process and like they were holding on to life like I don't want to die I can't I didn't do all these things and they're from the people that I have spoken to or the biographies that I've read no one ever sits at the edge of their bed on their last few days and it's like I wish I would have put in more overtime I wish I would have done these other things it's always things like man I was a horrible brother I was a horrible father I was a horrible mother and like they're just hanging on to these things but how can you maybe that takes us back to the human heart weighing less than a feather but like what is your thoughts on the potential for psychedelics and end of life yeah that's a really beautiful experience and This is one of the things I think is one of the most important things that psychedelics are here for us in helping us to experience the vastness of this life. So it's basically like a sacred mirror for us in being able to see what is it that we get to look at within ourselves that could potentially be holding us back. or not allowing us to feel the expansiveness of this human experience and the vastness of the human consciousness and how we're all one and we're all connected and we're all like, everything is destiny and everything is divine and honoring that and seeing it and witnessing it. I mean, these are all things that psychedelics really just like open the portal. Like I love to say, call psychedelics like a portal because it's like, when you think about it, everything can be a portal, right? Just like drinking your morning tea. You could literally like open a portal, you know, but you know, the psychedelics are just like an extra, um, beautiful avenue for that. And one of the things that you're so well-read, you probably read this book. I'm reading this book right now, the immortality key. Yep. Oh my gosh. It's blowing my mind. Oh my gosh. So it's like these ancient civilizations and how psychedelics have been used forever. I mean, like all of them have been using psychedelics. It's just like, of course, this has been kept from us. Of course, like, Like the magic that is available to us and just like these little things that can really just expand your entire experience. And that's one of the things that I heard over and over again at MAPS was like, you know, people say, you know, of the top five things of their life experience, some even more so than their childbirth is their psychedelic experience is like having those eye-opening expansive journeys is what helps you understand this human experience in such a beautiful way and a different way. And yeah, so it's really, really fun. I love it. Do you have any thoughts on the evolution of this psychedelic renaissance? I know that there's an argument between legalization and decriminalization, or does this thing go back underground, or does it expand into ideas that we can't even imagine yet? But what are your thoughts on the future of this? Well, I think this precipice we're at right now with AI and what's happening, it's happening so fast. You see, like even in the past couple months with what's happening with the AI thing, it's like there is no denying what's going to happen, right? Like there's no turning back now. Like the truth is being revealed. Like the veil is lifted and it's like, okay, this is the truth. So now I think like, there's no turning back at this point. You know, I loved to think about the idea, you know, in the sixties and seventies, when we were getting close to this renaissance, that's now regenerated. Now we're here again, but it's different. Like the manipulation and like the keeping us down and keeping the truth from us can't happen with the, with AI. It's like AI is actually, a beautiful tool in sharing the truth now. Like I asked, I just was asking yesterday about some questions. Cause I'm also really big into a boga. I love, I've done three, um, a boga full doses and I microdose with it. I love it. But, um, I was asking it some questions about, you know, the difference between the aboga bark and the total, the full alkaloids. And I began like the information that's in there. I'm like, thank God. like ai's got it like it's it's in the collective consciousness like there's no there's no stopping what's going to happen with this so yeah and I can't there's a clear ariadne thread that runs through psychedelics and ai like they're connected through language through behavior through initiation like they're just different wings of the same bird like I'm so bullish on like what how this thing comes together and rises like a phoenix from the ashes Totally. And this is like, the truth is we are at this precipice. The truth is going to be revealed in all departments. And like, how lucky are we to be alive at this time to witness the unveiling of what's about to happen? It's like... It's exciting. It really is. It really is. Heather Mack, you are an amazing individual, a beautiful conversationalist. And I'm so grateful that we got to meet and hang out. And this is going to be the first of many talks. And I'm really looking forward to developing a further relationship and exploring all the things you're doing. As we're landing the plane, though, I was hopeful that you could tell the listeners that are listening right now, like, how can they become part of the Conscious Collective? How can they subscribe to Divine Gift? Where can they find you? What do you got coming up? If they want to talk to you, how do they do that? Thank you so much for sharing and thank you for listening. I'm so honored and grateful to get to share with your listeners about all the things that light me up. The Conscious Collective is our conscious community. We're here in LA and we have monthly gatherings. We have something called the Goddess Day. So we have our Goddess Empowerment Day coming up on August third in Sherman Oaks, where we have women come together and share their gifts and their offerings. And we really just support small businesses. So we have those once a month. And we also have co-ed events called Imagine, which are actually in my dad's honor. It's named after the John Lennon song, which was one of his favorites. And he actually came to me and gave me the idea for it after he transitioned. So we've been doing those events for We've had about like six of them and they're incredible. We all sing Imagine together and we pray for world peace and we do a lot of inner peace work. So those are really incredible. We do those very often here in L.A., and um yeah and then we also have like uh so if you sorry answer your question we go if you go in the conscious collective uh on instagram it's underscore underscore the conscious collective and then on my website divine gift.me there's a tab for um events I think I think we have the conscious collective under there. I got to make sure, but yeah. And then on my divine gift, I have all the offerings that I have with ceremonies. You know, I facilitate with combo and a couple other medicines as well. And then yeah, you can follow me. My Instagram is untethered Heather. And yeah, I'm happy to keep in touch and continue the conversation. So thank you so much for having me. It's really an honor to be here. the thank you it's it's an honor for me to be here as well to everybody within the sound of my voice whether it's today tomorrow or five years from now go down to the show notes and click on the links reach out to heather she's doing incredible stuff it's it's incredible to talk to her she's there for people that want to learn more so please if you're listening to this go down and click on the show notes that's all we got for today thank you for everybody who's participating have a beautiful day heather hang on briefly afterwards to everybody else that's all we got aloha thank you