Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life Podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining. Hope the birds are singing. Hope the wind is at your back. In a world addicted to speed and deafened by distraction, there is a plant that whispers. It speaks in the language of sun on stone, in the pulse of rain on desert soil, a rhythm older than empires, enduring beyond the fever of our age. The ancients of the Cape called it Kana, a bridge between shadow and light, between the storms of the heart and the stillness at its center. Our guest has not only heard that whisper, he translates it for the modern soul. Ryan Luttrell, alchemist of the unseen, steward of the subtle, founder of KanaExtract.co. hearthstone collective and flow labs a man walking the liminal edge between ethnobotany and innovation culture and chemistry earth wisdom and human evolution with over a decade immersed in mushrooms plant medicine and the art of transformation he's shaping a future where wellness is a birthright and every molecule is chosen with reverence ladies and gentlemen ryan latrell thanks for being here ryan how are you I'm doing well. That was the most beautiful intro anyone's ever given me. Thank you. I love it, man. Give me a copy of that. That was awesome. Yeah, man. Well, you know, I want people in my audience, whether they're watching, whether they're listening, to get to see people the way I see them. And I know we, I met you briefly out at the Psychedelic Playhouse event, and it was an awesome event out there. And I just, I want to bring you on here, man, just to give people an idea of not only who you are, but what you're up to in this world and Kana. And so, yeah, man, I'm really stoked you're here. And that being said, is there anything I left out there for you to fill in or any kind of... Anything before we jump into some questions here? I feel like you covered it and it's such a good intro for Kana in particular because not a lot of people have heard of Kana, but it comes from this ancient, it's an ancient, ancient plant medicine that comes from like the cradle of humanity where maybe we all came from. And so it's been used for who knows how long. Well, how did you get, like, how did you find Connor? Or did Connor find you? Oh, it found me, for sure. I was... ...twenty-six. I had never experienced a psychedelic... I'd never been high in my life at that point, and I was invited to a facilitated experience where facilitators are sharing compounds with people. So I didn't even really understand what I was being given. I'd never done even a yoga class before that. And this is two thousand twelve. So it's like a very different landscape in this world. Like everything's very underground still. And yeah, I was invited to this facilitated experience and I was given it. It was a combination of MDMA and KANA. And not only was it my first time experiencing an altered state of consciousness, but my first heart opening, which is like a very specific kind of altered state. And it was very, very profound and changed the trajectory of my entire life after that experience. It's interesting to see or listen to the account of someone who can experience a new relationship with themselves after just taking a psychedelic or a Kana or MDMA. How did your life change after that? I mean, it sounds pretty profound to me. And as someone who's had some pretty profound experiences, it sounds like one of those experiences where after you have it, like your relationship with everything else changes. For sure. I mean, I like, you know, as I really like start to, I don't even know if I've probably like this many years later, I don't even know if I've processed it enough to really, uh, properly appreciate it. But what I, what I remember so vividly is, um, You know, I think what's so profound about that, you know, those two compounds, Kana, MDMA, they fall into this category of empathogens, which, you know, in the world of psychoactive substances, they don't, they're not like LSD or, or mushrooms, like they don't produce a lot of visuals. It's more of like this internal emotional experience. And for me, it was like, I didn't realize how much weight I was carrying on my shoulders until I felt it melt away in that moment. And it was so important. I knew in that moment, if more people could feel this, the world would be so much better. And it's like, it wasn't a mystical experience. I didn't experience God. It was just this like intense experience of like relief and safety. And yeah, I feel like the world, like people could really benefit from that right now. release and safety I had to write that down like that's such a good description of what happens when you're kind of a in tune with with reality and it seems like on some level we're so caught up in like algorithms and urgency and like just the hustle culture what what what an escape to get to feel the release and the something and and and that weight be released from you man was that but you mentioned it was with mdma and kana and The combination, yeah. The combination of the two. What is Kana like? There's probably lots of people that are listening to this that are like, what is Kana? Maybe we could back up and say, what is Kana? And then we can dive into what it feels like solamente. So Kana is a plant medicine that comes from South Africa. It's a succulent that grows in the deserts there on the West Coast. It contains unique psychoactive compounds that that aren't found in anything else on the planet. So what you feel from it is unique to Kana. On its own, I would say it's very functional. I guess to preface, Kana's not a scheduled substance, it's legal, but it is psychoactive. When you take it, you feel it, and what you feel is happier calmer you feel more connected like you feel more at ease especially like in social situations and you yeah you just like feel delightful is like a good way to describe it Now there's different ways to take it. There's different potencies that you can take that will make that much more intense or much more gentle. But for the most part, that's the description of kanna. And then when you pair it with other compounds, like MDMA or mushrooms, it really does transform, like change that entire, like it alchemizes that entire experience to make it more in the heart and body. So with MDMA in particular, what's really nice is you can take like half the amount of mdma and still have a full heart opening and and so the experience is I would say like more like softer uh less speedy you know yeah and um the recovery is also a lot easier man It sounds like it takes that edge off of some of those other compounds that are a little bit difficult to deal with. Sometimes for psilocybin, the come up can be a little tough. Or these different kind of compounds. It sounds like it really is sort of a companion to them. What's it like? You mentioned there's different sort of... ways to take it in some ways make it more intense some ways make it less intense and I noticed that when I go to the kana extract.com there's different there's different sort of settings for it is that because of the the dosage or maybe you can run through like what makes kana a light gentle rush and what makes it more of an intense rush is it the extract is it the drops like what maybe you can talk about the varieties of which taking it changes the experience of it um So, you know, our specialty is providing very pure high-potency extract. And that starts with the genetics of the plant. Like, if you don't have that foundation, you're not going to be able to produce a really good extract. So we're working with very high-potency strains that have unique compositions of these alkaloids that are in the plant. But yeah, so our specialty is extracts. And so if you're on the site, you'll see there's four pure extract powders of Kana, Lift, Bliss, Rest. I don't know if you've been on the site. Lift, Bliss, Rest. Yeah, of course. So those are all pure Kana. They're just, you could think of it like different strains of cannabis. The extract profile is different. The ratio of those alkaloids to each other is different and they actually feel very different when you take them. And they're literally activating different neurotransmitters. when you take those powders and they're very versatile. So our extracts, we supply a lot of brands with their extract that they put in their products. So they can be put into edibles like gummies or chocolates. I would say that's probably the most common way that people take kanna is orally. And so those powders either in an edible form or you could simply like mix it into your coffee or tea. And that experience I would say is like, middle of the road like it's a very functional experience where you're you're very much in control you're like you can go about your day you can have conversations it's really just going to enhance your day it's like lighter than say like a microdose of mushrooms and it's more like this euphoric feeling happy experience uh with the lift at least we have profiles that are more relaxing um I would say if you take it encapsulated, it's a little bit stronger. And so we have the Kana dailies on there and you can combine Kana with other compounds and it really potentiates those effects. Um, and then I would say next strongest way to take it is, uh, sublingually. So, you know, cause if you take anything sublingually, it's bypassing your GI, it's being absorbed through your bloodstream, through these capillaries beneath your tongue, and you're going to have a more rapid onset and the come up is going to be stronger. Um, Next I would say is inhaling it, so vaporizing it or smoking it. We used to offer a kind of vape, which is my favorite way to take it, but we can't sell it on our website anymore because of our credit card processor. They don't want selling vapes. And then finally, oh, and then smoking it. So like putting it in, if you use cannabis, That is an amazing combo. It's actually an ancient combo. The indigenous communities that used to use Kana traditionally would combine it with cannabis for a more mystical experience with the plant. And it's really nice combined with cannabis because it really like it mellows it out. It's very rare to ever experience like a headiness or like paranoia with like even people that are very prone to that with cannabis, with the combo, they have a really, really nice experience with it. And then the strongest way to take it by far is to insufflate it. So to take it intranasally, like as a bump. And you don't need a lot to take it that way. And, and that is quite strong. Then you're going to like feel the full effects of Kana and recognize, okay, this is, this is a plant medicine for sure. Um, and, um, that, you know, and I don't necessarily recommend people do that unless they've done that before, like hape or, you know, um, That, you know, the onset is like, depends on the person, ten to twenty minutes onset starts. Then for about thirty minutes it's a very strong come up. yeah it's it's quite pronounced for about thirty minutes and then that settles down and then you're just in this really nice warm glowing space for like two to three hours that is very functional um and then what's really cool about kana is like after that two to three hour period you're just back to baseline and there's no hangover no come down khan is non-addictive So for people that are looking for like the ideal social high, like something they can take socially, that will just like, you know, they'll feel altered enough that they're like, having a better time, it's easier to connect. They're more relaxed socially. But they they want to be able to sleep that night, they only want to last for a couple hours over the next day, and you don't want to get addicted to it. Like that's kind of so Man. Yeah. Is it the same way? I know that different modalities of taking it sometimes lead to longer lengths of half-life. Does that kind of make sense? Is it the different ways you take it? Is there a longer half-life or a longer duration? It is so subjective. I do a lot of events. So I've given Kana to a lot of people in a lot of different ways. And I've seen people go for it, like go like they're feeling it for like four hours, five hours because they're at a party. And I, you know, one of the things that's going on with Kana is that it's a it's a dopamine agonist. So so part of part of what's happening is that when you take it, like if you're in a a situation that is naturally releasing your own dopamine, it's going to potentiate that. So you're going to feel even, even better. Um, and so like set and setting is, is really important with it. Um, so, but yeah, typically like inhaling it is very rapid onset, short duration. Um, Orally and sublingually seem to have the longest. That's like that two to three hour range. And then intranasally is where I've just seen a lot of variation anywhere from like two hours to five hours. Do you think that in your opinion is kind of more about chemistry or like the cosmology it grew inside? I think it's both. I talk to a lot of different groups of people that just have different perspectives. Relationship is so important with psychedelic substances, plant medicines. You kind of get out of it what you put into it and the relationship that you build with it. If you want to look at it from more of an energetic perspective or spiritual perspective, we love this plant. The whole crew that grows it, extracts it, runs this business. Our whole lives revolve around Kana. And it's like the lifebloods of our family. It's what gives us money to live in this society. And we get to share this amazing medicine with people. there's a lot of love that's going into the cultivation of the plants like just the amount of time that it took to develop these genetics is significant they're grown with respect to the people and planet no pesticides or chemicals or anything like that is used in the cultivation of the plant The extracts are as pure as you can get, third-party lab tested. We have benefit sharing agreements where we are supporting indigenous communities that used KANA traditionally. And yeah, so I mean, we try to really respect the plant and also operate effectively as a business in Western culture. And yeah. they're, you know, as something that you can use in, like for plant medicine practitioners, I think KANA is very interesting. Like it's a very, interesting plant ally to add to your like tool belt or to your medicine cabinet because it's very gentle. It works very much with the person that's taking it. So it's like a good entry point for people that are maybe scared to explore these spaces or are new to that. And it's a great precursor for like, you know, bringing someone in gently and then deepening the experience with stronger medicines because it does play so well with other compounds. And I also think just the fact that this is a plant medicine that comes from Africa, like the heart of the world from where humanity may have like originated from is also very, very unique. yeah I think so too you know the word medicine like I always have a I always get like caught up in this word medicine because it seems like it has this connotation of like being something that's like centrally sort of with medicine seems to me on some level to have a negative connotation because of all like the insurance companies that come with it or the pain that comes with it or the centralization that comes around medicine and stuff like that you ever grapple with like the difference between like medicine and like sacrament or how do you how do you navigate that I kind of adapt to whoever I'm talking to and it's like I'm speaking a unique language and so there's some people that don't like they get turned off by using the word psychedelic I love using the word psychedelic or psychoactive compounds me too or you know I don't like or even like I don't I like using the word substance like substances like I but they all like you're not gonna make everyone happy it's not possible but I but I totally hear what you're saying with plant medicine and sacrament I I think like um yeah I I do totally hear what you're saying yeah it's it's such an interesting time and place right now because we we're on this cusp of sort of re-establishing a relationship with these with the environment you know I call it the environment like there's all these plant medicines out there but then there's all this pushback and sort of this residual propaganda left over from just say no or this is your brain on drugs like that it seems like where you're at it's a kind of a tricky place to navigate yeah I I um I think everything in this world is is going to be I mean like in the world of uh psychoactive compounds is going to be yeah yeah tricky um I really just focus on how do we make the best kind of possible. And, you know, in terms of like the way that we approach people, we haven't really like built a brand around like use cases and like this is how you can use it to party or deepen into your heart. It's built more around like these are why Like these are the ways that we're providing like the best kind of possible. And that's really just where I focus. So however you're going to use it, whatever kind of relationship you're going to make with it, we want to make sure you have the best possible source. That's a great way to navigate it. And you guys, when I go to the website, there's a point, and I think it drives it home, that ethically sourcing it. What does that mean? How do you ethically source it in a time when it seems like there's going to be more and more demand for it? Well, I think there's different pillars of that. So one is... you know especially as it becomes more popular I'm starting to see more and more uh people start to sell kana what they're claiming to be kana right and um And I think what's important for customers to understand or consumers to understand when you're buying Kana or trying to evaluate the quality of a product is to know how much mesenbrine is in it. Mesenbrine is the main alkaloid in Kana in the way that THC is the main active chemical in cannabis. you can imagine like if you are shopping for a cannabis product and they're not telling you how much THC is in it, you have no idea what you're buying. Like they can tell you, Oh, there's a hundred milligrams of cannabis in it, or there's a five hundred milligrams of cannabis in it, or this is a hundred to one cannabis extract. Like that is irrelevant if you don't know how much THC is in it. Um, and, um, and and that's what's starting to happen with kanna is uh you'll have like brands that are are very very in like products that are very very cheap or inexpensive and they're just not using any like who knows if it's even really kanna in it um because without the active alkaloid I don't know how you identify the plant as one of it um so so that's one and and we um so we I think that's a very important part of ethics in just this world is actually providing what you say you're providing. And we send all of our extracts to a third party lab that we have no connection with. And they do analytical testing of it, and not just of the active alkaloids. But this is something that not a lot of people do because it's expensive. But we also test for residual solvents and pesticides. uh and that yeah that's so important when you're working with extracts and and that is another thing that we're starting to see like in this space it's just like cannabis guys try to get into it and they you know run it through their extractors and there's a lot of pesticides in um in in some of these extracts that are coming out there so that's uh that's a really important part and then um uh Yeah, aside from the way we treat our plants and our crew, we have benefit sharing agreements set up. So a portion of all the Kana that's grown, the value of that percentage goes to supporting these indigenous communities that use Kana traditionally. Love it, kind of giving back to the what made it possible. Does it go through a fruiting stage? How does the plant grow? Is there a certain stage? Does it flower like cannabis? Or when is the right time to harvest it? Or how does the growing process look like? It's a succulent. um do you know what ice grass is have you ever seen ice grass here in california on the west coast yeah yeah usually the beaches yeah so it's it's part of that same family okay is um much not as hardy as ice grass it's more delicate uh but it um yeah it's relatively slow growing it's a it's a six month grow cycle until you can harvest it um It's propagated a lot like cannabis. So we have a bank of mothers that we then take cuttings from and then clone them out to do big, big grows of like the plants that we then extract. And so, yeah, basically from the time that it's done, made a cutting, takes six months to become a fully mature plant. before we then go through our extraction process. And it does flower, it does go to seed. If you were to not harvest the plant, it has a two to three year lifespan before it's going to go to seed and die anyway. You know, It seems like there's a pretty big spiritual impact like just with the language you're using and the methods that you are cultivating with I can't help but see the relationship to spirituality when you talk about giving back on sourcing it ethically or you know, like the mother plant like Do you think that your relationship with kana has changed your relationship with spirituality? Um I um In some ways, I think in that aspect, we found each other. Because in, you know, in twenty twenty microdosing mushrooms and just microdosing in general started to become very, very popular. And I really wanted to find like something that I could offer, like a microdosing product that I could offer people that was legal, that wasn't scheduled. And that was when, you know, so I discovered KANA way back in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, people really wanted to bring plant medicine into their day-to-day through microdosing that I started investigating Kana as a potential candidate for that because I wanted something that was psychoactive and you felt something from it that had real efficacy for mental health when you microdose it. that had a real lineage as a sacred plant, and it wasn't scheduled. And kind of just checked all those boxes. But the more that I researched it, the more I realized that there was something really important here. because the plant has all sorts of efficacy for mental health when taken in very low doses consistently over like a four to six week protocol. And so in the process of trying to find the best kanna possible I realized there was a real need to do what we're doing with kanna extract company um which is working directly with farmers on the ground to produce the best kanna extracts possible it's so interesting to me to see and or to think about like what this can mean. And if I broaden the horizon and I look at the way in which people in addiction are now starting to see iboga as a method of curing addiction, it seems to me, and I'm not a scientist or a doctor, ladies and gentlemen, You know, it seems to me that kana could be in that field, too It sounds to me like it's taking away some of this edge just taking away some of these anxieties Have you ever been approached by some of these? Like addiction treatment centers or are you aware of any research where people are looking at it to help people? Sort of move past these troubling times um so Um all yeah all sorts of people order from us. Um there is There's no studies on the extracts that we make and the products we make. I think that's an important disclaimer that anything that I'm about to say is not FDA approved about our products. There are a lot of studies that come from this company, Zembrin, that was the first I think it's like thirty years ago now, they're the first ones to create a standardized extract of Kana that was like just a standardized amount of mesenbrine, like point four percent. And they backed a lot of studies. that, so these are like, what's really interesting is these are now like, like, thirty years of research with human beings. We don't have that with a lot of substances. And, you know, not only did it show significant efficacy for depression and anxiety, without the side effects of what is traditionally prescribed for those issues. It also showed a very strong safety profile, like it's a very safe thing to take, especially at those levels, like ridiculously safe. It does not develop a dependency or a tolerance. In fact, it seems to be the opposite, where it's like the more you take it, the less you need it. I'm not aware of any studies that were done specifically on addiction treatment, but there has been a lot of anecdotal reports of it helping with um curbing the like pain and craving that comes with with addiction and like withdrawals when you're like first coming uh off of whatever you're you're you're doing you had mentioned neurotransmitters earlier and we talked about dopamine is it work do you know if it's working on like the serotonin the the serotonin system or is there other is there other neurotransmitters that it's working on It's a lot. I would show you a graph that shows all the different neurotransmitters that it hits, but I don't know if it'll come through here. Yeah, so it hits your serotonin receptors, so the five HT receptors. Here, let me actually just pull it up. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know if this will come through. I can also text it to you. Is it backwards, the letters? It's a little bit backwards, but I think people can get an idea. So anyway, it hits your GABA receptors, your cannabinoid receptors, your PDE-IV and PDE-III receptors, five HT receptors. It hits a lot. And actually, each alkaloid in the plant activates them in different ways. And this is what those different extract profiles that we offer, Lift, Bliss, and Rest, are really doing. Rest is more activating GABA. And so it's going to be a much more relaxing feeling than... lift which is much higher in mesenbrine and it's going to be much much more euphoric and hit more of those serotonin and dopamine receptors. It's such a trip. I know I was at the psychedelic playhouse event. I was sitting with my friend Adam Mizo and he had just gotten some and he's like I've never tried it before and I watched him take it and like it was so awesome to see because I saw him like I literally saw him sort of go to this place of like kindness and that's not the right word for it but it was like it was like this incredible lift and like you could just see I could just see like I could see him slowly turn on and he was like just having such a great time you know and I was like whoa it was so cool to get to see it and the onset was probably like maybe twenty minutes, thirty minutes. But he was just raving. He's like, George, this is amazing because I feel so much more like a lot. I feel so much more like sociable. And, you know, and it was just really cool to get to see that aspect of it and then see the onset sides of it. What were what is it traditionally used for in South Africa? It was a pretty central part of the culture for the San and the Khoi, which are two distinct cultural groups in South Africa. The San in particular, they're a hunter-gatherer culture. that's actually still intact today, which is pretty remarkable. And they would ferment the kana and then braid it, and then they would chew on it. And so we're essentially microdosing it during these multi-day hunting trips where they're tracking game for days in the desert of South Africa. So you can imagine the physical pain, the hunger that they're dealing with, And Kana not only helps satiate hunger and it's like it doesn't take pain away, but it makes it more tolerable. um and then it also enhances uh your senses um and so they would they would use it that way it would be used socially just like hanging out with with the tribe um and then I mean and it just to show like how safe they viewed it Uh, if, uh, um, if a baby was teething or colicky, they would take fermented Kana and put it in a breast milk and then like dip their finger into the breast milk and put it in the baby's mouth to help them with, uh, the pain. Um, and then they would also use it, uh, uh, like ceremonially. So, so the, the sun. were masters of entering trance states like another way of saying like altered states of consciousness and they would do this in a lot of different ways primarily through dancing and fasting but when the they were first learning to cross that threshold kana would be a powerful ally and aid in that process It's so interesting to me to think that the antidote to a pill might be a plant and like how much we've just forgotten how much in the environment is around us that can help nurture us into a more stable life of living. I really feel like we've just become so caught up in like urgency and algorithms and rushing. And so many of these different plant medicines really bring you back to this state of wholeness. It sounds like that's what kind of kind of does for, for people. And for those that take it, what do you, how do you see this whole kind of big picture, Ryan, do you see kind of being part of maybe the antidote to the urgency or the antidote to this, the algorithms and there's just short attention span economy. Um, I think it can be, it can play a role in that. I think, uh, like I'm, I'm as addicted to social media as, as anyone else. Like I'm like, shit, go do Ibogaine to get off my social media addiction. Um, I feel like I'd probably just end up back doing it because it's so part of our culture at this point. And I think that I think ultimately, like what's at the root of so much suffering, like I would be as as bold as to say, like maybe ninety nine percent is like a lack of connection. Yeah. And that is where I think psychedelics and plant medicines can really help us is in, you know, in their own ways, like breaking down the default mode network, like our, our just rigid ways of thinking, softening the ego. This is why I like empathogens so much, like softening the ego and just opening us up emotionally. Like that's really what we need to just find each other. And, and that I think is our only hope. I don't, yeah, I, I, I truly don't think that there's like, We can't replace a pill with taking a plant and still go about doing everything the same. We really do need to, I guess, find each other and be with each other and be present with each other and do our best to create community in the world that we have. Yeah. That's one thing I really love about the psychedelic space is the community. I feel... There's so much connection there and I think it's because everybody has had An experience of being broken and they have found something primarily in this space like some sort of psychedelic that allowed them to not only reconnect with themselves But to find other people In that community what like if you had to explain the kana community, like how would you describe it? As a as a seedling at this point It's um It's really interesting because so many people do not know about it. It's very rare that I meet someone and they know about KANA or maybe they've heard about it, but then they're like, oh, I was thinking of Kava. It's finding its place. It's really cool. It's funny because you're watching a lot of people come into it from the business perspective. Yeah. And just like anyone, you know, they come in and they think they're going to take over everything. And it's like really what I've found is like these businesses come in and then they and then like they find their people and they like they're delivering something of of of value to their people. And it's it's that's that's cool to see. And. There are. yeah it's it's like there are people that instantly get it and that's really cool like they see like oh this is the thing I've been looking for to take socially or to take in my day to like because it's like it's not like uh like what's so popular in it like it's like alcohol or or like ketamine is becoming so popular that's like very um like disassociating, Kana's very associating and very, very connecting. And, uh, and it's like just enough to feel better. And like, I, like, I hope people are really left with that. Like it's, it's not this crazy psychedelic thing. It's like, it's like just enough to really feel good and better. Um, And yeah, so I don't know. I mean, there's so much application for this in the like, let's say therapeutic route. And I've been very hesitant to go down that route just with the way the FDA treats things here in the union of the pharmaceutical industry with FDA. But there's so much potential there. there's so much potential. It's like super important. And then there's this whole, what I call social use route, which is people that are using it as an alternative to other things socially. Those are the two main pathways that I see it growing. Yeah, I can totally see both those avenues. If we cast a whiter net, how do you see... You have an unusual and interesting perspective in that you can see into the psychedelic community and also into sort of like the community of different plants and stuff like that. How do you see the whole psychedelic renaissance kind of shaking out? Are we going to continue to grow? Or do you think that there's some growing pains? Or does this thing go back underground? Or do you have any thoughts on that? I mean, I think a lot of us are wondering about this. You know, I really like, and just shout out to Jacob and District Two Sixteen who connected us. Because like, you know, just echoing back on the last question, like I think they're an example of what's really beautiful of like community finding, like people finding each other and building community around this. And like him in particular and his crew in particular, it's like, so apparent that it's fueled by an authentic, like genuine love for this subject. And, and like, not like, you know, there, I think there like, and there's not so money driven, like, or so, or so profit driven, I should say, like, obviously like we all need to make money to live, but it's not so profit driven. And, I think that is what's going to ultimately be, um, successful and, and ultimately the most meaningful to, for, for, for the people that are involved. Um, but you know, obviously these companies are going to do everything that they can to create mini monopolies or, or, or monopolies. And, um, I don't know. It's easy to get pessimistic. I don't want to get too pessimistic because if it goes like the cannabis route, then it's like a race to the bottom and we've all seen what's happened to cannabis. Like cannabis had this really beautiful moment where it was just like there's all these like cottage industries and all of a sudden people had money to like go and buy amazing things and support artwork. It was really amazing. Yeah, so, I mean, I would love to see that moment in this space. But yeah, I don't know. Again, my hope is in communities like District two-sixteen where there are not, like there's not one authority that controls everything. There's not one leader that tells everyone how it goes. There's a sharing of ideas and there's a place for everyone. And that we're all learning from and supporting each other and keeping each other accountable and safe is really important as well. I love that like that event like to sixteen that and that psychedelic playhouse, but I'll go back to that event It was almost like unlike anything I've seen Ryan like there's like a there's all these media rooms and you could literally be in a room listening to MIT journalists younger guys and elders on a panel interacting with the audience. And then right down the way, you can go and have a conversation with someone that has like a counterproduct or has someone that's filming a documentary. Like it was such a different type of event than I've ever been to before. The caliber of people that were there, not only because they were doing what they were passionate about, but because they were so engaged in helping everybody around them. Like, I really see that as the future of psychedelics. And regardless of whatever happens with the pharmaceutical model or the sort of Supply chain model. I really think that that community aspect of it is where it is. It's like everybody's going there and they get enriched and they come back and give back to their community. Like it's, I get goosebumps when I think about it. Like I see that community building that sort of edutainment where you can get some education from some of the, top professors or some of the top growers like it was such a mecca of like going there and learning and having a good time like that model needs to be exported because it could it could go to different cities it could travel it can almost be like a fish show you know what I mean like you go there you have the experience you get to have a good time you get to learn like that's where it's at man It's funny. I don't know how well you know Jacob, but he's like a huge Phish fan. So it's funny that you say that. I'm sure it's been a big influence on him. I think it's similar though. I mean, I tend to believe that we're kind of in the late fifties and I feel like we're on the cusp of this explosion of creativity and you don't have to look too far. If you just go on X and look at the art community or if you just, people listening to this conversation right now and are finding out about Connor, like, well, what is this? You know, it's like, I really feel like we are on the cusp of an explosion of creativity and new modalities. And when I factor in the statistics about younger people drinking less and exploring these new things, it gives me so much hope, man. What are your thoughts, man? You think we might be on the cusp of an explosion of creativity here? Absolutely. I mean, that's, that's might be my favorite aspect of psychedelics is like not approaching it from like I'm broken or I'm damaged or I'm traumatized and I need healing. And like, this is something that like explodes my, my creative potential. And there's so much healing that just naturally comes out of that. Um, and, and there's like, yeah, there's, there's just so much room to create, create new things in the space. And, um, again, I think that's why, uh, Organizations like district to or if district to you know expands like it's going to be really important for people to have communities like that to land in as they start to encounter the kinds of experiences that come from these substances. yeah you know one of the hot topics that I that I get to talk to people about and that I'm pretty passionate about is sort of psychedelics and like end of life I know two sixteen's got an event coming up where they're having psychedelics and end of life but let me just put this into a two-part question for you what are your thoughts on psychedelics of end of life and is kana can kind of be a part of that that's a an interesting question I think um I mean, I think even the data shows that it's been super helpful. Um, and, uh, you know, I like my, um, my father was in a near fatal car accident a couple of years ago. And, um, like just being close to death is such a psychedelic experience in itself without having to take anything. And, um, I think the value of, and this is where I think, um, entheogens really can be, can be quite powerful because you do start to get this appreciation and of, of the mystery of, of life and death. And, um, And it's like, I don't know if anyone knows. Like no one really knows, you know? But it starts to just create this like, I don't know, I think you just, you kind of get used to the threshold of that unknown and it can make it more of like this, like a new chapter to like look forward to. Like it's, it's not an ending. It's like a, another, another beginning. Um, with Kana, um, I, I don't have any even anecdotal testimonials to, so I would just be like, you know, speculating. I've just never heard of anyone using it that way, but I bet just when it comes to anxiety around it, it could help a lot. yeah just to facilitate those conversations because those are those are hard conversations to navigate and if you have something that sort of opens up your heart a little bit and allows you to ask the uncomfortable questions I think that's a it's a giant catalyst for change and forgiveness and respect like I'm gonna have to do some more research on there. I want to bring in we got some questions stacking up in the chat over here Ryan So, okay just fair warning. I got the greatest audience in the world. So who we're gonna go with first Thank you everybody for being patient. This one comes from Lena from Portland. She says if Kana were a musical instrument, what would it be? That's such a good question. No one's ever Something like like what has higher notes than like a pan drum but like some something like percussion like that it's like really sweet and melodical but a little bit higher notes than uh than like a pan drum I don't know what they call those those things but that's that's what's coming to mind for me Okay, Mateo coming from Santa Fe. Thank you, Mateo. And thank you, Lena, for being here. Mateo says, do you think plants dream? And if so, do we just become characters in their dreams when we ingest them? Fuck, that's a good, these are such good questions. I got the best audience in the world, man. Literally, as you were reading, I was like, or are the plants dreaming us right now? yeah I think I I I like just to get into my personal philosophy I think we're all dreaming this this experience together the the plants and us and and like we yeah we need each other we need each other for sure yeah I dig that spin mateo like maybe the plants are dreaming us you know it's interesting to think If you ever go on a long walk in nature and you just sit down by a tree or by a waterfall and you're like, man, am I seeing this or are they seeing me? And there's all this new information about mushrooms talking and anybody who's ever done a pretty decent dose of psychedelics has probably talked to a plant. And you get the real feedback coming. It's fascinating to think about. Who else do we have? Just to add a little bit more. Yeah, please. I've had some very powerful experiences in old growth forests taking psychoactive compounds and like The synchronicities that I've experienced where animals arrived in places where I needed emotional support, it truly feels like, it felt to me like it was all one entity that was organizing this and the forest was that entity. Yeah, I love that, man. You really feel like you're part of the whole in those situations. And you know, there's an interesting article that came out from Ollie. Ollie, if you're listening, I love you. Ollie Jen Bush, he's out of the UK, but he wrote this article recently that talked about the gut biome and all the thousands of cells and the different sorts of entities and things we have in our body and how they communicate with each other. And maybe it's the internal cells or the internal... you know, organisms in our body that are communicating to the plants outside of us. And I was like, whoa, I never thought about it from that aspect because clearly there's an exchange of information happening inside your body. So why wouldn't that same molecules or those same sort of organisms in your body be able to communicate with the life outside of your body? And like, that might be what sort of the mystical feeling is. Like when you see the waterfall, when you see the animal coming, when you see the plants, but it just, man, it makes me so excited to think about this kind of stuff. Yeah, we might all just be the puppets of the bacteria. Yeah, well, I think Terrence McKenna used to say that plants have adapted this way. The seeds will get under the fur of animals, and then the animals will transport that seed to an environment where it can grow. So if you just put that out a little bit further, maybe we are sort of the, the organisms that spread the seeds for the molecules or for the plant life. It's, it's just so much beautiful. It's so beautiful to think about yourself as part of this whole, like you are, you are an incredible part of this entire ecosystem. And we get so caught up in like loneliness or we get so caught up in, you know, being, being, um, just alone at times. But if you, All you have to do is go outside, just go outside and sit down in the garden or plant something. And you realize like you are part of this ecosystem. You're not only part of it, like you're an important part of it. You can play a bigger part if you want to. So sorry about that, Mateo. I just kind of went off on a tangent there, but Aisha from Toronto, she says, if the first human to ever use KANA could see how we use it now, do you think they'd smile or shake their head? Yeah, that's a good question. I think that if they could see it helping us, they would approve of that. But I think in general, anyone looking at just the way we live, you know, most of us are like this most of the day. Black mirrors. What happened? Yeah. Like, you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. I feel like it's, it's so addictive. It's so easy to get caught up in, in all of the monotony or the black mirrors in front of us. But I mean, maybe that's, maybe that's the plants talking to us. Like if you take Kana or if you take cannabis or you take mushrooms like that on some level, it inspires you to be closer to nature. It's like, it's almost like a language I think on some level. Yeah. Jonah coming from Oakland right down the way from me. Jonah, thank you for being here. He says, what's one question you wish people would stop asking you about Kana and one question you wish they'd start asking? Man, the questions are so good. I actually have never thought about this. I truly cannot, like I'm truly not annoyed by my, like it's literally my job. I get excited to talk to people about KANA. I guess a question that I wish people would ask more of is like, how can I take it, Like more, like I wish I got more of like the mental health stuff. Like, you know, so much of what we offer is like more for social use. And there is this whole realm of like, if you take it below where you don't feel it, but you take it daily, like it can be a huge support. And yeah, not a lot of people ask me about that. Well, let's stay there for a minute then. What other aspects of mental health? We've talked a little bit about clarity. We've talked a little bit about anxiety and depression, but what are some other aspects of mental health that don't get talked about enough when it comes to Kana? Well, you know, I think, so if you look at the pharmacology of KANA, there's some pretty complex things going on. One is it's a bioamine releasing agent with light SSRI activity. And so what that means is unlike a synthetic SSRI that is basically just blocking the reuptake of this one neurotransmitter, so there's just more of it, that seems to just come with so much side effects. And that's not to say like antidepressants have helped a lot of people. And if you're on antidepressants and they're helping you, you should not come off your antidepressants. That's like I think that's really important. But there are some pretty severe side effects that people go through. And one of them that's so sad is like it seems to shut people off from a whole like. part of their emotional body and emotion like emotional senses and um the way kakana's chemistry works is it's it's not just it only has light ssri activity so which seems to play a big role in in potentially why like you don't experience these side effects um but as this releasing agent it's releasing uh not only more serotonin but more dopamine and norepinephrine um uh naturally and then it's also a I just saw this uh message from from george here um it's also a pde-for inhibitor and um uh pd for inhibitor like a very like just simple way of explaining it is it's allowing those uh neurotransmitters to not get metabolized up so they're just able to do their job better um once they're absorbed by the postsynaptic nerve and um there's something about that the combination of those three things that makes kana so effective for mental health um And if you look at PDE-IV inhibitors, you can see that the pharmaceutical versions are used very effectively for bipolar schizophrenia. But you don't hear about a lot of people on them because they almost all come with intense emetic side effects where you just vomit if you take them. So it's really unfortunate. But KANA has this activity without those side effects. um so I have to be like really careful when I say this like I'm not making like a medical claim I'm saying there's tremendous potential for kana to support uh with these issues and obviously if you have any of these issues you should be involving your prescribing um doctor with with any of these decisions um but the the research is is there and it's it's very compelling Nice. So the incredible George Monty on screen right now is my dad. My dad has had, he's an incredible human being. I love him to death. Veteran. And he has run the gambit of finding solutions to deal with different ways of moving through life man so I'm super grateful to get to talk to you and my dad and answer these awesome questions you know it's so cool man dad I love you man thank you for being here and uh we're gonna talk more about this dad after this and uh yeah it's interesting to think about these particular aspects of like bipolar and we got I also want to bring up um deanna fullman here Woo, that communication from internal to external. Everyone should go down and check out. Click on Deanna's link. She's doing some incredible work out there. Deanna, thank you for being here. She also says that bacteria puppets, you know how we do it, Deanna. What if we are bacteria puppets? So super stoked on everybody being here. Let me also jump back into the chat over here into the Discord. This one is coming to us from Trevor, New York City. What's up, brother? You staying cool over there? He says, do you think Kana heals us or does it simply remove the static so we can remember who we were all along? Yeah, I think that's the latter is the case with all of these, you know, plant medicines or psychedelics. It's like, you know, the other aspect, like not even getting into the science of like why Kana helps with mental health, just like the energetic of it is... it is helping like connect it's like it's a connecting compound like it brings you more into your heart you feel more connected to yourself maybe there are like aspects of yourself that you've abandoned or not acknowledged and and there seems to be something about the like experience kana produces even on a microdosing level that like reconnects and and that I think is what's at the core of why it's so like to me that's more compelling than like the chemistry of it is is um you know it's like something that you're microdosing that's reconnecting you to your heart I love that aspect of it for me it brings up a question of you know The longer you do something, the more you understand the effects of it. It's like you're building the relationship with, with that plan. Have you noticed that when you take it, like obviously when you take something for the first time or maybe even the first month, like you get these effects, but then like in the second month or the longer the relationship, the more you truly begin to understand what's happening in your reactions, in your attitudes. Have you noticed that with longer term use? Yeah, for sure. And what's really interesting about Kana, it seems that people who use it more become more sensitive to it. And I don't know what the science of that is. When you take cannabis, you start to create more endocannabinoid receptors. I don't know if you're building more receptor sites. But across the board, I've seen people that use Connor regularly, like it takes less and less to really activate them. Um, and, and so for me, for sure, like it does not take a lot to really, really feel it. Um, and it's, um, Yeah, I mean, it's become the center of my life. So my relationship with it is like, it's just, I've created a very, very close relationship with this plant. Yeah, let me bring back on Clint Kyle's to everybody. If you haven't heard the psychedelic Christian podcast, go check it out. Clint Kyle's is an amazing orator. He's got a presence about him. Go check out Clint Kyle's podcast. Clint, thanks for being here. You're an amazing human being. And he says, what's up to my dad? Here we go. We got Joe, my dad chiming back in over here. He says, very good conversation, guys. Yes. they let the receptors fire properly. When you go off the meds, it takes longer to, and more meds to level back out, man. Good job guys. Thanks dad. I loved it. It's interesting to think about that when you, when you come off the meds, a lot of different meds, it takes longer to get back to baseline. So I think that on some level, these natural, adaptogens or these natural compounds are a much better way to to, you know, not flood your receptors and just burn them out and whatnot. So it's it's so interesting. And I'm so stoked to be here and get to be talking to you and learning about these different compounds that maybe they can be very beneficial for a lot of people. I just I'll say it there. Anya. Woo. Anya coming from Berlin. She says, if Kano was outlawed tomorrow, What would you hide, the plant itself or the knowledge that comes from working with it? I mean, I hope it doesn't. That's such an interesting question. I feel like I have to sit with that. Take your time, man. Thank you, Anya. I have, there's a way that I want to answer that, but like being on a recorded podcast, I feel like I should not say this. Be mindful, be mindful. Like, I guess what I would say is like, I may not hide any of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because sometimes we lose knowledge like that when you look at prohibition or you look at the outlaw or even scheduling some of these things to schedule one. Look at cannabis, for the love of God. Cannabis is schedule one. That means there's no medicinal use. How much have we lost because we're unable to study this in a way that's in front of everybody? I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind at this point. you know the way these substances are are scheduled is has been compromised by uh financial interests yeah yeah I couldn't agree more it's I don't know my personal belief is on some level like gets in the way of profits like we've already spoken a little bit about how drinking is way down and that cuts into a multi-billion dollar if not a trillion dollar industry like there's a lot of people whose bread and butter comes from selling alcohol of course they don't want something to compete with them and that's the nature of business is like no competition we want to run this thing so yeah and I'm an anti-authoritarian guy so there's there's so many financial interests like there's uh the you know prisons have become a for-profit industry and the prison lobby is very loud in keeping cannabis scheduled yeah I don't like At the event we were at, while there was alcohol there, the majority of people weren't on alcohol. And there were no fights. There was no sort of really obnoxious behavior. There was community there. And I can't help but think that's because of the foundation on which that community was running. When you go out to a bar, that foundation is run on alcohol. What happens when we run on a different platform? I think there's a lot of good that can come out of it. Yeah, I'm so bullish on the future of plant medicines and community and connection. And so shout out to everybody out there. Who else we got? Oh, my boy Solomon coming from Maui. Man, I'm going to be in Hawaii in a week or two. I can't wait to see everybody out there. Solomon says, when you take Kana, is it more like turning up the volume on reality or finally hearing the quiet parts? That's a good question. For me, I would say more like turning up the quiet parts. But there is an aspect of like, I wouldn't say turning up the volume on all of reality and experience, but definitely like when it comes to connection and that feeling of joy when you're connecting, it definitely amplifies that. Yeah, I'm going to think about that question for a minute. Turning up the volume on reality. Solomon, thank you. That's a brilliant question. What does it mean to turn up the volume on reality? That's almost how I would describe microdosing LSD. At least from my experience, it just enhances everything. Yeah. And like, I'm even microdosing mushrooms too. It's like, there's just so much more information that's coming in. It's like access to so much more information. And that is not what I would say happens with Kana. It's like, you're definitely like more centered and present with it. Yeah. You, you mentioned, and I see it when I go to the site, you use the word subtle a lot. Maybe you could define the quiet parts, and what do you mean by subtle? There's something really cool where it's like people will take Kana, especially if they're in a social environment like the event at the Playhouse event, where it is loud. There's hundreds of people in there, they're talking, it's loud, so there's a lot of stimulation. Yeah. And so some people will be like, I don't really feel anything. And then if you like just draw their attention to like, but wait, wait a second, let's just stop and like draw some awareness to how you're actually feeling. And they're like, actually, yeah, I feel like much lighter. Like I actually feel really pleasant and like happier. And it's like, so that's what I mean by subtle is like it can be easy to miss. especially by people that don't have a strong self-awareness or if you're just in a really stimulating environment. That's what I mean by subtle. You never lose control. It's very much a dialogue. It's not going to take you somewhere you don't want to go. It's subtle, it's gentle, and functional I think is also a good word for it. Yeah, I like that term for it. Priya. Priya's coming over here. Priya, she says, if you could sit in a circle with every plant teacher on earth, ayahuasca, psilocybin, cannabis, tobacco, Kana, what would Kana say to the others? Settle down, bro. Why go so hard? Just relax. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Raj coming in from Vancouver. He says, what's the most beautiful misunderstanding you've ever had with Connor? Sorry, I had a I have my do not disturb on and it just froze my computer. What's the most beautiful what? What's the most beautiful misunderstanding you've ever had with Connor? Beautiful misunderstanding. Um, is that, can I get a little more context on the question? Is that like, uh, like me and the plant and like my relate, like my own understanding of it or like with another person using it? Or do you want me to just go off? He says with you and the plant, you and the plant. Um, yeah, good. Again, good, good questions. Um, I think the biggest misunderstanding I've ever had with it was Like I, because I work, I do so many like trade shows, like I'm introducing cannabis to so many people. And so much of it is like social use as like an alternative to alcohol. And so it just, there's just not a lot of awareness there that this isn't a real plant medicine. Like when you take it, like you're like, oh, okay. Like there's an intelligence to this. and and it's easy for me to forget that uh and and like and so there have just been times where it's like I don't know like I'm I'm like testing a different product or an extract I've taken way too much and and it's just like I it kind of like has called me out of like hey you need to look at what you're doing here It's really slowed me down. I hold it as the intelligence of the plant. Who knows? Maybe it's activating a part of my unconscious. For me, with my relationship, it's the intelligence of the plant just checking me a little bit, bringing me back. to earth or helping ground me, especially when it comes to like relationships with other people like that. That's where I've found kind of so helpful is like being empathic and compassionate in my relationships, especially the more challenging ones. Yeah, that's an awesome insight, man. Thanks for sharing that. interesting to think about that aspect of it who else do we got coming in over here this one is coming to us from neil and he says what happens when indigenous wisdom and capitalist enterprise meet at the same table indigenous wisdom I think we're witnessing that um like in real time you know like I uh I feel like I've done, like I'm really trying to do the best I can with Kana and it's like, and I do actually think it is different for different plants. especially because it's so light and functional and because it has so much efficacy for mental health and because things like alcohol are so toxic. It's kind of important to get it out there. And I've really tried to do the best I could to create a company that behaves responsibly and ethically. while trying to make KANA available to as many people as possible. The topic of just how we work with these communities and just Indigenous communities in general is so complex and so complicated. It's so complicated it would be its own podcast because you can't just give money to people because it's like the fastest way to destroy the social fabric of the community is if you just start giving them money. Or if you give some people, like who do you give the money to? So now they have money and the other people don't. And then there's all these different communities. So it's like so complicated. So I, like, we have really tried to do the best we can. Kana is still so small. Like we're still so small from where this could potentially go. And that this is going to be something that we are constantly navigating where like there are other plants. And also I think what makes Kana unique is like, the colonization by the Dutch and the British were so effective at decimating the culture of these communities. Like there's very few that even like use Kana anymore, let alone remember how, how it was used where it's like, you know, ayahuasca is like one of these ones where like maybe it, maybe like the cultures are still intact. A lot of them are still intact. A lot of have been decimated, which is really sad, but a lot still are intact. And like that experience is so profound. Like I personally don't think it should go into some like corporate business model. yeah it speaks to me the the world the word rewilding comes to mind and like you sometimes you'll see it like in a national geographic or a documentary or maybe even your own community where an old piece of land just gets overrun like maybe there was a barn there and it fell down all of a sudden all these trees are growing through it but I think the same thing is happening And like the communities we live in, like the structures have kind of failed. And now we're kind of seeing the growth come back, like the new green shoots and like the rewilding of the human experience is kind of coming back. And with it comes back these plants and these experiences and these new communities. And I look at it from that angle like it. it brings me joy it makes me feel like oh yeah so there was some destruction and things have collapsed but look at this new growth that's coming in look at all this new birth look at all these new butterflies sort of coming back to the community and and um Oh, we got, here we go. My friend, Adam Mizo, Adam Mizo says, hi, Ryan. It's great to see you again. It was a, it was a pleasure meeting you in Denver. Thanks for the Kana intro. It's a cool apothecary edition. And this is, this is the story I was telling you about earlier. Like me and Adam were sitting in the lounge with Jennifer love and some guy from MIT playing the piano, which was a whole amazing, another part of it. But that's what he got the Kana. And he's like, I'm going to try this right now. But I totally saw Adam take it. It was like, Just come alive man. He's like this is amazing Shout out to adam. Yeah adam Adam says, uh, I tried the kana snuff and loved the pleur burst Then I turned around and met reggie watts and told him his song His song fuck shit stack is legendary Like that's the power of kana next thing, you know, you're talking to reggie watts amazing Adam, so stoked you're here, brother. Everyone go check out Adam Mizo's Substack. He writes about some incredible stuff out there. Good friend of mine. Thank you, Adam, for being here. So, well, we have come to the part of the show, Ryan, where we like to call the lightning round. It's a fan favorite, and it's a set of questions that I ask you, and you fire off an answer. Are you ready for this? Yeah. Okay, here we go. So this is the lightning round. Ladies and gentlemen, prepare to get stoked. Who would you rather have be a guide for your trip, Charles Manson or Jesus? Jesus. Would you rather share a joint with Hunter Thompson or brew ayahuasca with Maria Sabina? Hunter Thompson. No offense, but yeah. Would you rather have dinner with Alan Watts on acid or Terrence McKenna on mushrooms? That is a hard decision. I'm gonna just go with Alan Watts because he was just my entry point into so much spiritual philosophical thinking. Would you rather be stuck in a commune with Timothy Leary or a monastery with Ram Dass? Timothy Leary, yeah. Would you rather debate psychedelics with Ted Kaczynski or AI with Elon Musk on MDMA? AI with Elon Musk on MDMA. Would you rather become the official trip sitter for Salvador Dali or Jimi Hendrix? oh man I love jimi hendrix so much but to be back salvador doll yeah salvador dolly yeah would you rather ask one question to the oracle at delphi or to an alien hive mind on psilocybin alien hive mind yeah Would you rather do five MEOD and T in a sensory deprivation tank or in the middle of Burning Man? That's a good question because Burning Man is coming up. But I would go with the sensory deprivation tank. Would you rather number ten ladies and gentlemen live inside Terrence live inside a Terrence McKenna lecture forever or inside a Grateful Dead show forever I Guess a Grateful Dead dead show forever Wow Ladies and gentlemen Ryan Littrell, Kana Extract. Let me throw it back to you, Ryan. Like, where can people find you? What do you have coming up? And what kind of promo code? When they use promo code TRUELIFE, what can they expect? Uh, ten percent off any time they order with TRUELIFE. The website is right here. I don't know if people are just listening, but the website is khanaextract.com. You can order there. You can email us at hello at khanaextract.com if you have any questions or reach out on Instagram, which is just at khanaextract. Yeah, for sure, reach out if there's any questions. what about you got any events coming up? Um, you're going to be at some trade shows or people are around the country. Um, the, uh, I mean, I'll be at Burning Man with like a bunch of kind of vapes. If you, if anyone's listening, you want to come by, uh, uh, it's at element camp, elementum eight, and B, um, come by happy to, uh, give you a, a, a kind of eight. Um, And then I guess the next event is the one that you mentioned at District two sixteen. Do you have the date for that? I think it's September twenty seventh, but I'll put it in the show notes. Yeah, I'll be in South Africa at that time, but we'll have a we'll have a booth there if people are local to Santa Barbara and want to come try Kana. Ladies and gentlemen, go to the KANA website, reach out to Ryan and everybody that participated today. I'm so grateful to have such a cool audience. Thank you everybody for being here. Really looking forward to it. Use that promo code, check out KANA and reach out to Ryan. Ryan, hang on briefly afterwards, but to everybody else within the sound of my voice, I hope you have a beautiful day. That's all we got. Aloha. Truly a pleasure. Thanks for all the questions. Yes. Oh, I hit the wrong button there.