Ladies and gentlemen, it's Friday. It looks like we made it. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining. I hope the birds are singing. I have an incredible show for you today with two incredible people, and I wanted to present them in a poetic fashion, and so here we go. Christian Gray, merchant of chaos, alchemist of startups, conductor of green symphonies. Hemp genomes twist beneath his fingers like living calligraphy. psychedelics spiral through him as pharmacon stars and decentralized identities bloom in his wake like fractal cathedrals of proof he wagers with infinite with infinity as it were dice in a storm spinning markets into constellations turning spreadsheets into runes and board rooms into astral theaters every deal is a ritual every contract a sigil aaron raskin needle priestess of the hidden rivers cartographer of the flesh's secret maps her hands are conduits for chi her touch a symphony and marrow and sinew herbs unfurl like verdant songs singing green light into the bloodstream she sutures east to west science to song hospital to temple and nerve to spirit thank you so much for being here aaron and christian how are you guys doing today excellent you are such a poet that is amazing Well, thank you. I love language, and I love the way we get every day a chance to express ourselves in the most positive and beautiful way, and I want to seize upon that. I want people to see themselves for how beautiful they are. I have two beautiful people with me today. Christian, how are you doing, my friend? Oh, you're muted, buddy. I just said the most important thing of the day, so... Yeah, just really enjoying the lifestyle and the pace of things in Medellin, Colombia. So my wife and I are outside the country and there's some medicine inside that too. There really is. You know, for the audience listening, the three of us had a really short, brief meeting where we just discussed some real surface level topics. And in that short meeting, Aaron said something to me that has been monumental, like in the last week, and I can't stop thinking about it. We were speaking briefly about tragedy. And Erin, you mentioned to me tragedy is a portal. It just hit me like a ton of bricks. And I began thinking about the tragedies in my life and where I was when they happened and where I am today. And I can't stop. I get goosebumps when I think about it. It is so true. We can't. When we step into this new awareness, like we become aware of things that are beautiful and things that bring us pain. And I've come to the conclusion you can't have more light without being in more darkness. But I was hoping you could expand on that a little bit and maybe tell the audience. Sure. I really appreciate that introduction and I really appreciate that. that languaging of tragedy as portal. Because when we flip it, I mean, it's easy to sit in, oh my God, why did this happen to me? This is horrible. This is the whole spinoff on that. But the vibration that leaves us in is a paralyzed vibration. And if I flip it to, what is the opportunity here? what are the gifts in this situation this divorce this job change this diagnosis this death this whatever what what what's next what are the opportunities if I say it's an opportunity it's a it's what's next it's a portal it makes me meet new people it puts me in different places it changes my schedule whatever it is it's a portal and when um so I ended up with a parkinson's diagnosis And after I had my tantrum about it and I had a, I had a tantrum and I had denial and I had all the feelings and all the things, but at some point when I flipped into, okay, this is a portal. This is an opportunity who there are things I'm going to learn. There's ways I'm going to serve. There's ways that I'm going to be served. It has been this weird blessing of slowing me down and redirecting me and asking different things of me. that wasn't happening in the other chapter, which was also a lovely chapter, but the river keeps moving, right? You're never in the same river twice. It keeps moving. So if we stay in the river and we're not grasping at either bank, it's like, okay, what river am I in now? And how do I best show up in this river so that I can be the best version of myself now? Yeah, it's interesting. I was thinking a little bit about your journey, and I think I would love to hear more about it right from you, Erin. Like the weaving of the Western and the Eastern medical practices, Chinese herbal medicine, acupuncture, and acupressure, And, you know, some people might think the UC system is one of the more liberal institutions in the US. Other people would have a different opinion. So your ability to navigate, you know, a UC system and integrative medicine, I'm just a little curious about how you pulled that off. I think part of it was it was an idea whose time had come, right? I mean, when I got into Chinese medicine, um, back in the eighties and I was promptly called a quack and all sorts of other weird things and doors were not open and there was no insurance coverage for it. And, you know, everything was just outside the system and it was, it was politically correct to call us quacks. And at some point when alternative medicine became complimentary medicine, integrative medicine, whatever the name of the day was, when it became more politically correct to have that medicine, be present, then it was politically incorrect to call us quacks and it was politically correct to bring it on board. And then we got insurance coverage and so then everybody wants a piece of the game because there's now some money on the table. So when I was invited to come on board at UCSD, there was no mandate at the top for integrative medicine at that time. That was in twenty fourteen. The hospice here in town that I had worked at had just closed. There was some money available for bringing the integrative medicine there and one of the benefactors moved that person and that money to UCSD and then I came along and it was a part time gig to be director of integrative medicine. and help bring some of that to the hospitalized patient. And it took some time. We had to get it into Epic. We had to get a way for orders to happen. We had to educate the team. But at that point in time, you know, now it's twenty fourteen. Everybody knows what acupuncture is. Either they've had it or they know somebody who's had it. Everybody likes massage or osteopathic medicine. So to ask to bring those things forward, people were going, what's that? They were going, oh, what is there any reimbursement for how do we make that happen what's the billing code exactly what's the billing code and so then we marched forward you know it was a slow march um but it's it's becoming and then then there was a study of bringing acupuncture to the emergency department and that was a uo one study and ucsd was one of the hospitals across the country that was part of that study. So, you know, more money is being made available for research and it's becoming more standard of care. And so I was a part of making that happen. It was like pushing a boulder up the hill. It was not always easy. At least it didn't roll back on you. It didn't roll back on me. And that program is still in play and people are still being served by it. So that's a lovely thing to say. I just wanted to share a little bit more about the portal piece. I think when we sit in these junctions of difficulty, of hardship, It asks a deep listening of us. Can we get still enough and listen and feel the feels and sit in awareness of what the download is of what's next or who to tell or who not to tell or how to phrase it or what feels like medicine, what feels like toxicity? Because we're being asked to change it up. And so for me, there was still like the grasping of the way I used to do it. as spirits saying, no, no, no, can't do it like that anymore. Figure out a new way. It was like learning curve, learning curve, learning curve. So like staying present enough and falling on my face sometimes. And with Parkinson's, literally falling on my face sometimes until you kind of go like, oh, okay, I can't do it like I used to do it. I have to ask for help. I have to find a different way. I have to increase my self-care, but that means continually seeing it as an opportunity and listening for what works and what doesn't work. And I was in denial for quite a while. I didn't talk about it. I didn't want to use the word. I didn't claim it. I didn't. Yeah. Until I found my voice about it. And then once I found my voice about it, Then people like Christian and other people are like, oh, you have to meet so-and-so. Oh, talk to so-and-so. Let me hook you up with so-and-so. Have you read this book? Do you know this podcast? Things happen because you let people know about the river you're swimming in. The good river, the weird river, the uncomfortable river, whatever version of the river it is. At some point when we find our voice about it, then people can join us and community and help us. It's so... I hear a rite of passage when I think about this. And it seems like in some ways in the Western world, like we pathologize these things that happen to us. But maybe what we're seeing is a giant rite of passage. Like you had mentioned, I can't do it that way anymore. That sounds like becoming to me. That sounds like I am becoming this new individual. I am becoming more spirit. I am becoming. But in the Western world, sometimes we fall into that label, that diagnosis, and then we become the diagnosis instead of becoming the person that we're supposed to be, like instead of learning the lessons that like the life is trying to teach us. What are your thoughts on that? Totally. I mean, at some point, I think it was twenty ten, eleven. I was told I had a download as you need to slow down and I negotiated. It's not a good time. I'm busy. I have this wedding. I have this conference. I have a little bit. But in December and, you know, I was negotiating. So then I went I was executive for my dad and I went to Dallas and I tripped and I went airborne and I fell and I had an intertrochanteric hip fracture, which required a surgery to put a rod in my leg. And then it was eighteen months on a walking device, either a wheelchair or a walker or quad cane and a single point cane until, you know, all that sorted itself out and I rehabbed. So I negotiated with the message to I need to slow down. And then I got slowed down. It's like, oh, listen, OK, well, here you go. We'll just slow you down. There you go. Be on a walker for a while. So then, OK, so I I get my legs back again and I go back into my busy life. And then at some point in twenty eighteen, I had the first symptom of Parkinson's, which, of course, I didn't know any of that was going on yet of a tremor. And I just ignored it. It didn't hurt. It was little whatever was my non dominant hand, whatever. Like any good healthcare provider, I'm a terrible patient and I just ignore it. I was wondering about the perspective as a practitioner and now as a patient and like, remember when somebody didn't take your good advice or, you know, like... And, you know, watching some of your research and following the different threads and conversations and introductions, a term I've heard over the last few years with people who have family members in critical situations is kind of a patient advocate, having someone that understands the health care system or has some medical training. It actually helps you make sense out of what you hear from the doctors. I imagine you're pretty good at figuring that out for yourself. But maybe you talk a little bit about advocating for yourself and what's prescribed versus what you choose. I am a good advocate. And also, as I've told my patients, when you're in a serious appointment or going to meet a new provider or a new aspect of it, bring someone with you. So my husband Ken always went with me to any new appointment with a new provider. So I do think people have to have someone with them. And I hate to say this, but I do believe that if it's a woman, they should have a man with them. A husband is a partner, a brother, a son, a cousin, a neighbor, a friend. And if that can't happen, you better have a woman who has her voice with her. So that you do have to advocate for yourself. And I do not listen to everything my doctors tell me to do. Nowhere in my chart does it say I'm not compliant because I show up to my appointments and I consider what they tell me, but then I put it through my own filter, my own research. I was invited to get a DAT scan and I declined because once I learned more about it for myself, it was a radioactive test with non-definitive results. And I didn't want possible downside effects of that test, especially since there's other ways to rule in and rule out different, you know, what they were trying to rule in and rule out. So I declined the DAT scan. And when I explained it to my DO why I was declining it, he was like, okay, I can, I see that. But in his scope of practice, he still has to prescribe it, but I don't have to say yes. So I didn't. And they prescribed me the Sinemet, which is the carbidopa levodopa for Parkinson's. And I think they prescribed that probably in twenty nineteen. I didn't take it till twenty twenty three. So I knew that I knew enough and did my own research to know that it wasn't curative. Starting it when they tell me to start, it doesn't help me anymore down the road than if I don't start it. And the symptoms of the side effects of the medicine were worse than my symptoms. So I just proceeded to do other things. I did the rock steady boxing. I did a lot of supplements. I did a lot of ayahuasca. I did mushrooms. I unpacked a lot of things that needed to be unpacked. And then at some point came the download. It's time to try the medicine. And then I tried the medicine and it made me feel nauseous. So I would titrate it differently. And eventually I put it into a tincture in a little dropper bottle. And at some point I saw Mineralis. She said, how's the meds going? I said, this is how I'm taking it. She was like, what? Who told you to do that? I said, oh, a DO friend. And I said, yeah, I cannot have the nausea because I can titrate the dose better. She's like, okay, take it with a little lemon juice. It'll help be more bioavailable. And then the pharmacist saw what I was doing, and she was like, hold on, hold on, hold on. And she goes and bangs on her computer. She comes back. She says, yes, you can do that. I said, yes, I know. I'm doing it. She said, take it with a little ascorbic acid. But it's not like they tell you to do that. But I just found my way to do it so that I could, because if I say I'm nauseous from it, then they're going to give me another pharmaceutical, Zofran, to help with the nausea. And I'm like, no, I don't want to keep stacking. I want to minimize. And I did acupuncture. I do acupuncture and red light therapy and all these different supplements. I looked into the mitochondria aspect of Parkinson's, which isn't talked about. And I did methylene blue and glutathione and So I have tried many, many, many, many things along the way. I have a long list if anybody ever wants to hear it. What helped, what didn't? Was it the combo platter? Who knows? So I did end up taking the medicine they told me to take, but not the dosage way. After listening to a European webinar, I started taking mucuna pruriens, which is a Ayurvedic herb, kapi kachu. And in Ayurveda, Parkinson's is known as Kampa Vata. It's a Vata disorder. And because I also have some training in Ayurveda, I understand what that means and that I need to pacify the Vata. And there's all sorts of things to do to pacify the Vata. So I do that, or sometimes I don't do that. Sometimes I'm a bad patient. But I understand that the Sinemet is not curative. It's only symptom management. And if you're looking for disease modification, that's not really available yet in Western medicine. It's symptom management. So I can symptom manage other ways other than Western medicine. I can symptom manage all sorts of ways, including Western medicine, at a dosage that's not as high as they would want me on. My current toy, and I mean that in a playful way because it's by no means a toy, is I did like crazy research on iboga. It started calling me. It is a wonderful root medicine from Africa. And how do you pronounce it? Onerogenic? Is that how you say it, Christian? I think so. It's an onerogenic, more so than a psychedelic. And it is being used with incredible results for addiction interruption around the world, amazing results. But they've also found that it has some effect, some good benefits for Parkinson's, disease modification benefits for neurodegenerative diseases. It increases neuroplasticity, it increases BDNF, it increases GDNF, it does neural repair. I mean, I kept going down the rabbit hole And I would talk to this person who would tell me to talk to that person who I would read this. And I hear a webinar. Somebody would mention a name. I'd write the name down. I'd Google the name. I'd contact the name. It was, and doors would open door. And Christian was like making introductions. And a friend of mine wrote me, she had been to district two, and heard Heather Mac speak and said, you have to meet Heather. And then Heather introduced me to someone else. And then I got, it's just been this seven weeks of rabbit hole of, ping pong and connections until finally I was, but it's illegal in this country. So finding somebody to send it to me and get it to me, and I probably shouldn't be saying any of this because, but I started micro dosing and I'm very hopeful that this has disease modification benefits For me, and as they study this, Ambio Life Sciences in Tijuana, Mexico, they have a clinic and a Parkinson's house, and people can go across the border. They have a very specific program for Parkinson's patients, and it's legal, and they're studying it. The Texas Ibogaine Initiative just sourced a hundred million dollars between their fifty million private and fifty million public. And they're going to study Ibogaine. So it's all it started with addiction interruption and now it's being expanded to think, well, what other brain issues can it help? TBI, PTSD. I mean, it's it's, I think, going to be the next it. But I can't wait ten years to wait for it to be part of the know the normal river I'm like okay putting on my life jacket I'm going to go swim ahead um and and be part I'm collecting data I'm doing an n of one study so that I can collect data and contribute that data into the field if if anybody wants it I've seen, I've been fortunate to speak to lots of people who have been using iboga lately. A lot of people for addiction because it's a powerful addiction disruptor. But this is the first time I've heard about it with Parkinson's. Are you at liberty to talk about how it's made you feel or has there been changes since you've been taking it or what's happened? I was told to go slow, start slow. So I started with a very low dose, didn't notice anything. And then as I jumped to the second, you know, like five to seven days and jumped to the second pill, five to seven days, jumped to the, so what I did notice was a little emotional detox. I have been very stuck. I have been, you know, I told you I had a lot of, I've stuffed a lot of things and I haven't always known what my feelings were. And so there's been an invitation on board, like, okay, it's time, I'm ready, let's go. And the sadness will kind of knock, sometimes when I'm driving. you know, and I'm like, I really don't want to have a meltdown now, if that's okay. Can we, can we do this later? So, um, I, I had, I had a weepy day, one of my first days on, um, Iboga and I was like, Oh, hello. That's good. And then on a, you know, like five days later, whatever it was, I have it charted. I'm keeping notes. There was, um, not a full meltdown, but there was a good cry. And I was like, oh, such a release. It was like, oh, yay. Hallelujah. You know, it's unpacked. The dam is broken. It's unpacking. That was about the time that we had Hurricane Erin. And so one of my friends said, I would have told her I had a, you know, I had a good cry. She said, oh, maybe you're going to get, clearly you're getting some wind with your water. But yeah, and then the other, yesterday, there was jumping to the next level and at some, and this was not a subclinical dose. This at some point, like usually to get about an hour later, I'll feel something, either nothing, a little fatigue or yesterday it was like, Ooh, girlfriend better lie down. This is not a micro, this is, you know, something. So I just lied down, I put on some music and I had a little journey and you know, it, it wasn't big, But let's put it this way. I wouldn't drive. I wouldn't be out of the house. I wouldn't. I just needed to be in. So there was more. And there was a lot of shaking that happened, a lot of release. That was really good. I can't say that I've noticed anything physically yet. But I've already made a lot of progress pre-iboga. I did neurofeedback in February and March. My gait got better. handwriting got better um and so I've been doing I do I wear the red light hat how is the biofeedback delivered my little red light hat love it um first I had a brain mapping session and they you know they it was I think it was um nineteen leads at nineteen channels and they they what I don't speak brain map but you know she did all the calibrations or whatever how my brain was and she could see places that it was working not working you know not optimized optimized I'm not sure there was any place that was optimized but she saw what she saw and then I did ten sessions of neurofeedback um and you know you you operate the rockets with your mind and with your with your thoughts and with your The rockets are on the little visual feedback. There's names that she can pick. So she picked whatever the one she picked because I let her, you know, direct. And at some point, if I was agitated at some point and she said, okay, you got something going on, feel it and fix it. And so I think I did different things in my sessions. One time I did alternate astral breathing and she was like, oh, what was that? That changed your brainwaves immediately. I did tapping. I did pledge point. I did mantra. So I would do different things that would change my brainwaves and change then how I was able to control the game, you know, that was on the screen. Yeah, it's funny because I'm thinking a little bit about the conversation we had last night with Betty and the idea about learning about something intellectually and believing in it versus having internalized it, experienced it, embodied it. It sounds like you're embodying the results of the biofeedback with these different modalities, and you're seeing it in real time because you're getting data that most folks don't see when they're in those modalities. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been an interesting ride. I'm going to piggyback to something George asked me before about the messages. When I ended up getting the next slowdown message, apparently I didn't listen to the first slowdown message. When I got the next slowdown, and literally with the Parkinson's, there's bradykinesia, slowness of movement. So I'm, as a Vata, I would zip around. Zip in, pop in the car, pop out of the car, zip into the store, zip out of the store, do eighty-two things in a day, walk fast, talk fast. And literally with the Parkinson's, there is no popping. I don't pop in the car, zip out of the car. I don't zip anywhere anymore. I'm very, I'm not as slow as I was. My gait's much better. But there's a different slowness that do you know jason marazza's song and be where your feet are I don't know I love him but anyway it's like I had to especially at some chapter when before things got better I had to so be where my feet were because as a fall risk you don't want to fall right so it's like being so mindful of If I'm in my own house, I know where things are. But if I'm out and about, is there a curb? Is there off camber grass? Is someone's purse in the way? When we go to Burning Man, which we're not at this year, but I would sing with the choir. And if there was nothing on the risers, I could get up the risers by myself. But if there was all sorts of things on the risers, water bottles and music and purses and things, then to jump up the risers or lift up the risers with nothing to hold on to, was very difficult, so I'd need touch assist. I had to be so present. But isn't that what we train to be with mindfulness? So present. Not to dual task, to be where our feet are, to be where our breath is. So that's been a little bit of the opportunity. At first, I was mad at the whole thing. I can't zip, I can't do, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't. And then it was more like, oh, I get to go slow. I get to be in the moment. I get to be more present. Now, I don't always hold this concept right. But I do know that that's one of the gifts is to slow it down. I can't say yes to everything. Sometimes I have to sit down. Sometimes I have to ask for help. Who says that's a bad thing? It's like, and people are happy. I helped people for years. People are happy to help me. It's all how I interpret it. But that slowing down from spirit through this diagnosis to the body that just can't do what I wanted it to do or what it has to do. I had to really make friends with that and then come to the conclusion that like, oh, that's kind of cool. I'm more where my feet are. I'm more present. If I'm walking, And I want to take my jacket off or put my jacket on. In the past, I would have just done three things at once. Now I have to stop, put my jacket on, stop if we're traveling, stop and look at the sights and take it all in. I'm not walking and on the phone and looking. But that's kind of good. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm not exactly sure what sort of neurodegenerative disease Parkinson's is. Do we know what's happening in the brain when someone gets the Parkinson's? Like what is happening in the brain? Is it a synaptic activity or is it nerve activity? We do know. funnily enough I'm not going to be the most articulate about that because that wasn't the dive I didn't want because I read about it in the beginning all the shit show and this is broken and that's dying and this is less and it's a little bit like whoa I kind of put my energy towards and what can I do about it I see but yes there's the substantial nygrim and things aren't working as well and you're not making the dopamine and sorry I'm not going to be I'm not going to do it justice and shame on me but there's so much writing about it and every Parkinson's thing starts off with this long you know soliloquy about how it's broken and how it's just going to get worse and then it's going to lead to this and then this and then this had you walk away from reading it going oh god what a shit show I have to look all that forward to all that. When I first went to rock study boxing, he gave me the PDQ-thirty nine, which is a questionnaire and you fill it out. And I didn't have a lot of symptoms at that point in twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. And I was like, oh, am I going to get all that? And he was like, oh, not everybody gets everything. But it can be really overwhelming when you go to the seminars or the webinars and they tell you and You go to class and this guy's in a wheelchair and this guy's on a gait belt. It was like, does everybody have to slide that way? But no, this is where I think we do a disservice calling it Parkinson's disease. I think it should be called Parkinson's syndrome. We don't get it all for the same reason. We don't all get it in the same way. And medicine doesn't affect us all in the same way. So there's not just one kind of headache. There's not just one kind of Parkinson's. There's not just one kind of cancer, but you know, we're good labelers, culturally, name things and label things, put them in categories. But if you call it a spectrum, you know, if Parkinson's or neural, it's a spectrum, where, where are you on that spectrum and what wiggle room is there? So, anyway um it's it's a it's a harsh diagnosis but there's harsher ones out there you know there's harsher ones um it's not a pleasant one but there's been I'm I'm I'm on this journey with it and those who have joined me and I'm learning to manage it and heal it and be with it as best I can to serve myself and then to also be able to serve others. I am on the, I help lead the women's support group. We call it Shake It Up. It's the women with PD support group. Ken and I will be volunteering this year at the World Parkinson's Congress. So it's like, okay, if I have this, how can I show up and help? Where and when is that Congress? It's in Phoenix in May. I think it's May twenty fourth to the twenty seventh World Parkinson's Congress. I've been asking them if they would consider having a presentation on iboga and ibogaine because even though it's not legal in America, this is the World Parkinson's Congress, not the USA Parkinson's Congress. And I had a nice discussion. They were they encouraged researchers to send in their abstracts um which I have communicated that with people but as the as the people from the coalition told me these conferences these congresses congresses are set up years ahead of time on committees that have been talking about it for a long time so she doesn't think she can just go in and say here's a new topic so she said you know see if they'll present in the abstract place Oh, yeah, like the poster sessions. Yeah, exactly. And that deadline's in October. Yeah, you could just have all the data on your N of one. I'm not even thinking about me. I'm thinking about the researcher I spoke with and people who actually have move the ball and I shared the deadline with ambio suggesting they submit also but you know again that's a lot of effort and to do in october and that may or may not happen for people but it'll come it'll have its heyday yeah I think For whatever reason, his syndrome has showed up and we're in twenty twenty five. I guess you got that initial symptoms and then diagnosis. I'm kind of wondering where you are. when you look at it in the rear view mirror a little bit, right? Cause it's not like it was a year ago. You got the diagnosis. Yeah. You've been, you've been dealing with this for a little while and maybe you have some insights or some practical advice for other people who are just being diagnosed. Right. And that's, that's one conversation versus they've had it for five or seven years. Right. When Ken and I were thinking about this podcast today and you know, he's been on this journey with me and he's like, Oh, remember when you tried that? Oh, remember that? Oh, remember? So I started listing. It's like, oh my God, there has been like, let's put this hat on, let's put this hat on. There's so many things to, and then I held my own for a while because the symptoms were very, there was only the tremor in the beginning and then more things came. And then at some point it was not good. And getting out of the couch was very, very difficult and I fell and you know, blah, blah, blah. so then I decided to embrace the Western medicine and then see what that got me. And then, you know, it's, it's been a journey of try this, try that. Yes, no, you know, and now to be where I'm at now, which I'm significantly better than I was a year or two ago, even my neurologist noted it when I saw her the other day, and we can see it in the numbers of the scale. Um, I went from a forty-four on the UPDRS And then I went to a twenty-six and then to a eighteen and last week I was a fifteen and lower is better. So she saw my gait was better. So it's very exciting to know that like you can hold your own. You can slow down degeneration. You can get better. There's some movement to be had. Not to take it as a you'll go straight downhill right into the grave. It doesn't have to be like that. It doesn't mean that may not be like that for some people, but it isn't an automatic, right? We're different. We have different karmas. We have different genetics. We have different life lessons. So I guess I would say don't go it alone. Don't wait. Maybe, you know, don't wait as long as I did to talk about it. But you got to be yourself, you know? I mean, you got to do it how you do it. It's not that I didn't talk about it to anybody. I just didn't talk about it very often to many. Whereas now I'm much more of an open book. And at some point when I was, and also remember this, this happened in like in eighteen, I got the suggestion, but I stuffed it. In eighteen, I had the brain MRI and the neurology test, and that was the thought. But then I didn't deal with it. In twenty, you went into COVID. So twenty and twenty one was COVID. So I didn't see anybody. So I wasn't at UCSD. I wasn't at certain places. So certain people couldn't see me and couldn't see the degeneration. So they weren't making comments because you didn't notice it on Zoom or wherever. And then when people could see me, it was like, what the hell is wrong with her? And then that's a little awkward to navigate. Do you want to talk about it at the party? And now people can see I'm better. So now people are kind of like, hi, you look good. What's going on? So now there's more to share on the positive side. So it's hard to say everybody's journey is different. So I guess I would ask people, Think of it as a portal. What are the opportunities? What is there to let go of? Are you working too much? Are you in a toxic relationship? What's not medicine in your life that you need to let go of? What do you need to shift? What downloads are trying to get through to you that you're blocking? That any illness has the opportunity to get quiet or to change things or to forgive things or to open up your heart or not be so shut down. or whatever it is for each person, some illnesses will quickly lead to, you know, it's time to take your last breath. We're not, we all die. You know, my dad used to say, do everything right, die anyway. So that might be a really great segue, because one of the things I wanted to surface was your work around the death cafes. And I'm wondering if you think Starbucks is in trouble because death cafes are going to take over on every street corner. What's that conversation about? Why is that space necessary? And yes, as far as we know, no one just gets out of here alive. Right, right. Oh, that's my friend Brad. Hi, Brad. um so the death cafe was started in in uh the uk I'm not remembering the name of the man right he started it he was a beloved he's not with us anymore um and it came to the us in it came to san diego in And I started leading them in twenty sixteen. I was trained by my friend Karen Van Dyke, who brought them to San Diego. And it's really just an opportunity for neighbors and communities and friends to come together to talk about death, end of life, death. And you're with people who won't shush you, you know, because a lot of times people parents want to talk about what happens when they die to their kids and the kids don't want to talk about it or kids want to talk with their parents about what what what they need to know. about you know when they die and parents don't want to talk about it so or spouses so the death cafe is an opportunity for people to talk about do you know what you want done with your body when you die have you told anybody do you know what you want um at end of life who's your durable power of attorney and your you know your medical advocate do they know that they're that has it written anywhere um Who do you want around you? What what if you have a bucket list of things to do before you die? What are they? Do you think you have to plan for death? What does that mean for you? It's just there's prompter questions and people can discuss. I think I want to be. I think I want to donate my body. I think I want to use the earth burial. I think I want to. be cremated. Oh, my kids don't want me cremated. It's a big drama in the house. And there's a place to have a discussion about end of life and death because culturally, we don't talk about it well. Other cultures do, but we don't talk about it well. So when I've led the death cafe, it's great because everybody who's there wants to be there and wants to talk about it. And there is nobody to shush them. Yeah, it makes me think a little bit of the work I did around senior living. And actually, I got to figure out how to get it to you, George. But it's on LinkedIn because it's in the articles and, you know, drafted time about having difficult conversations with parents, which, you know, it's that parenting thing that kind of happens towards the end of life. But there's so many other forms of end of life. And I really think... about the role of plant medicine and psychedelics in folks transitioning. And one of the most powerful documentaries, it's in the list that I've curated, was an MDMA study and it was a fireman, a kind of early, you know, man's man fireman who was facing a terminal cancer diagnosis. And he wasn't able to talk to his family about how much he loved them without that medicine. So the ability to have these kind of safe conversations with people that have these layers and layers and layers of calcified programming and training that they can't share their emotions because that's weakness or whatever. So to be able to talk about sensitive topics and show up, you know, it's a little bit like the psychedelic salons, right? It's like to show up, there's no dumb questions, there's no dumb people, it's just uninformed, right? And you get informed. So I think that's such an interesting, a space to hold how long have you been doing it and kind of do newbies show up or do you get some of the same people coming back such a good conversation it is my first one was in when I started um hosting them I've done them at the ymca I've done them at the library I did them down at rancho la puerta I did it online during the um pandemic oh I've done it for for groups who wanted you to come. So sometimes it's nobody knows anybody, it's whoever from the Y comes or from the library comes. Sometimes it's a family that wants you to do it for them, or a group of friends who wants you to do it for them. So sometimes it's strangers talking about it together, and sometimes it's beloveds talking about it together. And thank you for putting in the chat, I'm sorry, I've forgotten, John Underwood and Bernard the curators of this. And it's not, you know, you can do your own. The Death Cafe has a particular template. It's never a fee. People can make a donation if they want to. There's snacks and coffee or tea. It's casual. But we do ask when it starts, you know, don't come late, the door closes, turn off your phones, be present. And we break into small groups to have discussions. So we're in a large group and then a small group. And then we come back together and the scribes kind of share. There's a format, a template for the death cafe. But anybody can have these conversations and come up with whatever their questions are. What was it like? Did you grow up with a pet? And did that pet die? And what was that like for you? Did you grieve? What do you want done with your body? Who do you want at your deathbed? What music do you want played? Full circle for me, from our conversation from the very beginning to the top of the hour, when Jordan was talking about the profound realization we had about the portal and pain and trauma that you talked about. And it kind of feels like death is the big, big portal, right? That's the big show. Everything else up to that is just getting us ready for whatever that's about. Totally. One of my BitDeaf cafes, the guy was sharing, the question was, do you think it's important to plan for death and what does that mean to you? And his share was he was a big traveler all of his life and he loved the game of packing. And so all of his trips, he became this expert packer, precise packer, what to bring, not too much, not too little. And he had the good game of being a good packer. And now he feels like he's going on his final trip of death. And for this trip, he has to unpack. And so now he's trying to be a good unpacker. And I loved his analogy. It's like, what do we have to let go of? You know, literally stuff. And how do we want to get our stuff to the right people or tell our executors, you know, who to turn things over to? Who to let go of? Where do we need to clean it up? Like what's left to unpack? So that when we leave, we don't leave with regret. Other people around us don't have regret. That it's as clean a death as possible. And we can soar into the next portal, out of this portal into the next portal. And it doesn't have to be filled with trauma for us or the people we leave behind. Because it's inevitable. We just don't prepare for it. it's you know that brings up a point for me too because you know lots of people listening and maybe yourselves included have known people that may have taken their own life or maybe you have someone in your family that's getting close to death and the things left unsaid carry a burden for everyone around them and it's like there's no opportunity like And it sounds to me what you're talking about, like there is an opportunity. There is an opportunity for you to have the discussion with people. And these altered states, at least for me, allow me to open up, whether it's MDMA or psilocybin. I'm hopeful that in the future we'll get to see these sort of end-of-life parties. and maybe not the super happy maybe the super happy party but maybe the party where everyone comes together and gets to put everything on the table so that we can all put everything up there and then we can walk away with a little bit of closure and the person that moves on to the next phase they get to soar but so do the people that get left behind that are going to miss that person forever you know like they get an opportunity to say hey I got hurt right here I never told you about this can I give it to you can you help me unpack this like It just sounds like such a, and I'm hopeful that people listening to this, are we going to get there? Do you think that there's that opportunity for us to have that sort of look at the end of life as a family, as a group, as a community? What are your thoughts? Anything is possible. I think it always depends on who the group of people are and the intention and the skill set that people have to do those things. There are people who have had their celebration of life party while they're still alive. Because they want to be there, and they want to make the playlist, or they want to hear the eulogies of them before they go. I've only known of a few of those, but I thought that was cool. Or this one woman I knew who organized her. Here, kids, here's the playlist, and this is the poem I want written. These are the pictures I want. She helped them make the whole celebration of life that she was. She said, this is the best party, and I'm going to miss it. But she helped co-create it. But yeah, what you said, George, I think that's a lovely vision. I bless us all that we grow the skill set and the cultural awareness and container to be able to set that up for more families and more circles of people. So one sort of gate that I see in the way of that was when I grew up, there was a really heavy messaging that was like, this is your brain. This is your brain on drugs. Just say no. And so a big part of maybe the generation a little bit older than me and then the generation after that seems to be this messaging that got in there like, these are drugs. These will fry your brain. Do you have any ideas or maybe some tips on how to bridge that gap between people who may have that mindset versus people that don't? How do we talk to people that may think that and say, well, maybe there's a different way? I think that we don't want to put all drugs in the same category. You know, like shooting heroin is not the same as microdosing iboga. Right. you know, taking plant medicine for inset and setting for therapeutic reasons to, to heal is different than taking medicines to disassociate and escape our discomfort or because there's an addiction on board that, you know, or it went from, it was your pain management and now you can't get that anymore from your doctor. So now you're stuck on the street drugs. That's not set in setting. That's not therapeutic container. And that's not for the purposes of healing. But they somehow get in the same conversation because we're talking about drug use. But it's not the same. And if we separate them out, it's like, yes, nobody wants to see anybody addicted to any of the substances or activities because the addiction is not a healthy pattern. And these plant medicines are available to help disrupt addiction, help us unpack trauma, heal and integrate, and then walk a cleaner, I don't like the word cleaner, walk a healthier journey of wholeness and contentment and peace. And we don't have to use the same tools of disassociation or, you know, stuffing or Christian. Well, it's just I hear what you're saying and I get George's question and I what I'm But I observed and it's really an observation is that we're all in these different echo chambers and bubbles. And if you're in this circle of people with this worldview and this frame, this is acceptable. You know, you can see dogma and kind of. Sell a self righteousness rear Ted and all sorts of different areas of. of life. So I just hope people find their path to whatever modality. I don't even want to say medicine necessarily, although your body is your own medicine. And there's all these endogenous systems. There's breathwork and so ecstatic dance. There's so many different methodologies in addition to plant medicine that all have a range of possibilities depending on what you're going through and what you're trying to work on. What he said. You know, earlier in the conversation, Aaron, you were talking about like it sounded to me like a lot of agency. And I love the way in which you described having the courage to understand I'm not the diagnosis. And it seems to me when I talk to other people and myself included, so much of the medicine and so much of the healing is in the seeking. looking for ways to see it different, looking for particular different plant medicines, or looking for alternatives than maybe the authority figure gave you. I'm curious to get your thoughts on how much of the medicine is seeking, because it sounds like you've created so many relationships just searching and seeking. It almost seems like the seeking is as much the medicine as the medicine itself. I think there's a lot of truth in that. And I've been a seeker since I was a little person. My mom says I came out of the womb asking about God. I asked about God from what I remember very little. And since my parents were both Jewish and they were secular Jews and they weren't necessarily seekers, they didn't know what to do with me. They were like, send her to Hebrew school and the one she could walk to. So I went to the one I could walk to. you know, got bat mitzvahed, got pissed off at Judaism and all of its cray-cray and went off to India. And so I've been a seeker for a long, long time. I used to say, I feel like a piece of the pie is missing. And I understand that more now as I wasn't remembering who I am. I was lost in this world, in this form, in this personality, identifying, not knowing what was real. so there was not peace so of course a piece of the pie was missing because I wasn't integrated so that seeking nature has just followed me around and so when I have this challenge then I'm looking for and asking for help and for solutions that can help bring balance to the situation. And actually doing the research or looking at things, sometimes it's tiring, but it has its own vibration of hopefulness and curiosity and wow factor. When I was seven weeks down the rabbit hole of iboga and ibogaine, It was on board. Like I was so and maybe it's just the dopamine hit of like, oh, then there's this. Oh, that person. Oh, there's that webinar. You know, there was all this possibility and hope that felt like vibrationally there was already help for me because I was seeing hope and possibility and not reading all about the downside of this diagnosis, but reading about possibilities of neuroplasticity. So reading about neuroplasticity gave me neuroplasticity, right? It was like, you know, the river, the river, it's always changing. It's always, there's possibilities. And if it's not my turn to die, then it's my turn to live. Snoopy and Charlie Brown were having a conversation and Charlie Brown said, you know, Snoopy, one day we're all going to die. And Snoopy said, yes, but on all other days we are going to live. So, you know, it's like I'm still here. No matter how hard you try, you can't see your nose. You know what I mean? Only through the mirror, only through the other people can you find that part of you that's missing. And that seems to me to be the seeking. We look so hard. We focus on trying to, who are we? But the only way you can really see it is by seeking and seeing other people and seeing your reflection, the good, the bad, the ugly in other people. You're like, that's me. There I am. I'm right there. It's so funny to me. Right. Pointing, pointing, pointing, judging, judging, judging. Oh, three back at me. Okay. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. I got, okay, let me jump in. I got some people chiming in over here. So this one comes to Desiree and she says, moments of awe and mystery. How can, how does that transform understanding? Thank you, Desiree. I don't know how. I just know that it does. Like when you're sitting in that, you know, a higher vibration or vertically connected and sitting in the, oh, the, oh, the bigness, the, the, it's like, I'm not stuck in the, I'm the, I mean, mine of Aaron Raskin, the, the details of the personality and the life of, and the to-do list and the, opinions and judgments it's like it's like you know like oh that there's that connection to the all that is for that moment and just that being in the present moment of connect contentment and awareness that is in that is not about past future thinking it's present moment being and so um there's a beingness and not a doingness Yeah, we got, yes, Ranga comes in. Ranga, thank you for being here, my friend. He says, what's the, in your opinion, what's the connection between expanding something and restoring it? I know language structures reality. Yes. So those words do mean different things, but are we talking about different things? Because again, we're labelers and categorizers and words do matter. So if I'm trying to restore something, am I trying to bring it back to how it was? And if I'm trying to expand something, am I trying to allow it to go to its becoming of what's next? I don't know. And for me, it's kind of like I want whatever repair is available, but I want it for the next best version of myself of becoming, not like so that I can be how I was. Because that errand's gone. And not in a bad way. It's like, okay, what, what's, what, where am I supposed to be and go and what's next? And, you know, I would say I would expand that in, in marriage also. It's like, you know, like what, what's version two point oh, what's, what's, how, how do we be the next best versions of ourselves individually and as a couple? Yeah, it's a great answer. Who's coming in over here? This one's coming from Carla. And she says, moments that break us open, they have changed my life. How have they revealed hidden paths in your life? Well, the cracks are how the light get in. That's for sure. Back to Rumi. Rumi and Leonard Cohen. So yeah, they have, Carla. They're not always pleasant. Yeah. but they do show you a new way of being or show you new tools to use ask you to step in and step up and show up in the next best way that you can ask for help um yeah they're simultaneously hard and wonderful yes I think it's such a tricky dance, and you brought up diagnosis or pathology, I think, George, and the whole DMS thing. Depression, anxiety, these things get used, and then pathology follows, and then you're wrong to have those feelings or feel the feels. And it just seems like as we mature, we can be in a place where we can accept those challenging states for what they are without slipping into them recoverably, right? But you don't always need to medicate those either. There may be some learning there to make you some biological benefit to go through those states and how you come out the other side. Yeah. I'm a big fan now. I clearly haven't always been because when I was working and busy, I was just stuffed. But cultivating the skill set to feel the feels, And not necessarily have to retell all the stories, just let the emotion have motion and go through, have the big cry, scream into the pillow. Sometimes I've named them. If there's a emotion that keeps showing up or an archetype that keeps showing up, like I have Nervous Nellie and I have Clarissa. So when Nellie's on board, I know that there's something about some part of me doesn't feel safe and some part of me is feeling nervous. So I recognize Nellie now and I don't stuff her away. It's like, hi, Nellie. Come here. Sit on my lap. What's up? You know, OK, we're not alone. There's grownups on board now. This is how we're going to do this or we're safe. Whatever I need to say as I'm observing and feeling the feels and I'm having awareness about what got triggered. then I can address it more clearly and not stuff it. If Clarissa comes out with her clipboard, you know, she has her clipboard, she's judging everything. She's all, and she's got an opinion about everything. And so one of the things I did with her last year was she came on board with her clipboard and I gave her a new piece of paper because she likes to count and judge and categorize and label. Like, oh, you really like to do that. Okay, here's a new form for you to use. And this form asks you to make everybody right and count all the ways that they did good things and count all the ways that there are blessings on board. So judge away, but the form that you're judging, what you're now judging are blessings and goodness and add girls. And every once in a while, she turns off over the piece of paper and she makes her own form, right? But I'm like, no, no, no, we're using this form. And then, but it's, but even it gives Ken and I language, you know, it's like, oh, okay, Clarissa, or, you know, oh, Nellie, you know, like, we can recognize if there's a part of me that's got the mic, if you saw the movie Inside Out. Yeah. Oh, my God. And now there's Inside Out, too. Fantastic. But yeah, having that awareness so that when we're in those places, it's like what got triggered and who's got the mic and how are we doing with it? And do we need to ask for help? And can we stay with it to get to the other side of it? Or do we need to take a break or so that we don't just totally melt down if we're not able to in the moment. But, you know, meltdowns are breakthroughs. Yeah. If you let them be. Do you think Clarissa would have ever got that clipboard or Nellie would have ever had the adults around unless the Parkinson's came on board? I would say this diagnosis has really fast forwarded me to unpack more things. Definitely, definitely jumped into plant medicine. And I did plant medicine before the diagnosis, but not as intensely as I did after looking for answers and looking for healing on other levels. So, you know, that's been some of the gift of the diagnosis is, you know, it was hard and I needed to go get my shit together in some different places. Yeah. When we first jumped on the conversation, I had mentioned to you that, you know, sort of gaining a new awareness it allows you to see more light but it also allows you to feel more pain like it's such an interesting thing because you step into this new awareness like wow look at all this oh my gosh look at all this right if you're going to feel the feelings you're going to feel all the feelings right but from a buddhist perspective right they go Is it pleasant? Is it unpleasant? Is it neutral? So that I don't have to always go down the rabbit hole of the story that's affiliated with the feeling. It's just, oh, unpleasant. Let it go. Breathe, breathe. Keep my focus on present awareness. I don't have to get lost in the whole remembering the shit show, you know what I'm saying, of my childhood or the trauma or the this or the that. Because those stories have been told. But if the feelings are coming up or the triggers coming up, there's an opportunity to have them without them having you. And I'm quoting Ram Dass on that. We went to go hear him speak years ago and he gave like literally ten minutes of a conversation about all the things he had done to help himself. Fisher Hoffman process and the S training and therapy and Jungian psychology and this medicine and that medicine and this guru and that he just went on and on and on and explained all the things he had done. And he said, so you'd think that by now I'd be like enlightened and have all my shit together. He said, but no, it looks more like this. I'll be at home and there'll be a knock in my head and I'll go to the door and I'll open it up and I'll fear. Hi, haven't seen you in a while listen I'm with anger right now but I'll be right with you and then he said so it used to be that they were this big and I was this big but now I'm this big and I can just see them and be with them and hold them and let them pass through and treat them like guests like the roomie poem the guest house Just let it come. Practicing that's another story, but knowing somewhere that we can just let it go and I have to cultivate that muscle to keep being able to let it go and to remember that things are happening for me, not to me, so that I don't have to re-victimize myself about anything. It can just be like, okay, what's the opportunity? And here's an emotion on board. It's unpleasant. Breathe with it and don't grasp. And it's a practice. One sort of difference I see between Eastern and Western medicine is in the Western medicine, we want to measure everything because we want to make sure that it works. How do we make sure this works? We need a placebo. We need all this stuff to make sure it works. But in the Eastern tradition, it seems like this helps. And I can tell by the joyous tears of my loved ones seeing me get better. You know, do you think that we how do we bridge that? Maybe we we do too much measuring in the Western world because it works. I know it works. I've seen it work. I know people that it worked for. Yeah, but we haven't measured it yet. You know, it seems like such a bridge. How can we get past that bridge or what are your thoughts? My God, it's so funny. We are very reductionistic and it goes back to we like to categorize and label and we want to know. Right. That's part of the thing is we want to know certainty. And part of the thing is one of the things that ayahuasca said to me was, you know, I needed to get comfortable with discomfort. I was always, you know, and in this one ceremony, I could see myself wiggle. I was a wiggle worm. Surely it would be more comfortable like this. And one breath later, oh, no, no, no, I was wrong. Surely it will be more comfortable over here. And I just couldn't sit with the discomfort. And the story gets better, but I'll save that for another day. But we want certainty. Culturally, we want certainty. We want to know. We want to measure it. And we don't want confounding variables, for darn sakes. So in our research, we have inclusion criteria and exclusion criteria. And you can't have this variable on board, but you can't really You can't really take out every confounding variable. That's reality. But that's the nature of the gold standard of research. Are we getting better? I don't know. They used to say, you know, talk about acupuncture had no research. It had three thousand years of research. It was just anecdotal research. It was a different type of research. It was case study research. It was it was different. And I didn't wait for. research to authorize me to go study acupuncture receive acupuncture study acupuncture um it's much more research now and has much more of the grand poobah blessing but we still wait for the grand poobah blessing which is what I'm not doing with iboga right it doesn't seem like the grand poobah blessing makes it any more effective right exactly exactly and then sometimes we don't accept other cultures research and they don't accept our research. There's not always, I think we could do better in terms of, and I think research is important to knowing what's more effective this versus that, or who is effective for which blood type it's effective for what type of back pain or pathology in the back, this surgery will work for. So you shouldn't bother having it because you don't fit that category and people of your type of, or, etiology of back pain. Don't get better from this surgery, so don't bother. That's really valuable. So there's a lot of valuable information in research. But sometimes we drag our feet, I think also. We over-research some things and push other things through quickly and other things through too slowly and follow the money. It seems too to me that there's this sort of there's this sort of fight between science and spirituality. But in my mind, they're just opposite sides of the same coin, right? It is. It's getting better. Like science and quantum physics and, you know, it's all the whole quantum conversation in the bio field. And it's coming, you know, scientists are seeing spirituality and spirituality is being justified by science. And they're actually holding hands in our lifetime. It's very sweet. That's such a beautiful way to say it. I've seen it much better because I'm not a quack anymore. I used to be a quack and right then I had two appointments at UCSD. So it's come a long way, actually. Yeah. It's... it's beautiful to get to see that sort of harmony. And I love the way you described it, like holding hands together, because you need both. Like you need to have that agency in you. And sometimes that comes from faith of like, I'm going to find the way. And then like that, like, I love the way you described it about being a spectrum instead of being people people being pigeonholed into a diagnosis or this is, you have this cancer, this is the treatment for it. Wait, what about these other things? Well, we don't have the studies for those, but it doesn't mean they're less efficient. It doesn't mean they're less effective. Like they might be right for you and maybe in conjunction with each other. But our system, unfortunately, which is broken, you need a ICD-TAN code. That's your diagnosis code. I see, I see. And then the CPT codes that go with that ICD-X code is what's covered by insurance. And so you get this diagnosis, which means you qualify for these procedures or these meds. It's all, how do you get millions of people through the system? The categories and the labels and the codes help. We know this for this, go. We know this for this, go. Oh, we don't know this for this, go in the waiting room. You know, like, but that's where patients, can do things for themselves. Take webinars, read books. Not all doctors know about supplements, but some doctors do, or go to a different type of doctor. It might not be covered by your insurance, but you can simultaneously do what your Western doctor covered by insurance is telling you to do. And also go see an acupuncturist or a naturopath or a DO or a chiropractor and see what their, or a functional medicine doctor or a physical therapist, or the list goes on and see what their modalities have to offer you that aren't contraindicated while simultaneously doing whatever you're doing with your Western medicine doctor. You can do it all. But some people don't know how to do that for themselves. They don't know how to quarterback all that. It's a lot to be that much of an advocate for yourself or know that many systems. And then it says some of it's not covered. Then it becomes who has access. Then it's an access issue. And that's its own weird conversation. But then there's low hanging fruit, right? Then there's just low hanging fruit that people can do. Like in Chinese medicine, it's called Yangshan lifestyle medicine. And Ayurveda has lifestyle medicine. It's like, what's just low hanging fruit? Are you hydrated? If you're dehydrated, every illness is going to be worse and every symptom is going to be worse. So that's not contraindicated by anybody that doesn't need a prescription. Are you hydrated? Are you drinking good quality water and not in plastic? Simple, cheap, be hydrated. How's your vitamin D levels? Get them tested. It's a cheap test to get. Vitamin D is not a vitamin. It's a hormone. It's responsible for over two thousand functions in the body. Have good levels of vitamin D. And in the times of year that you can, get it through sunshine. Not like fifteen minutes naked at noon. Seven minutes one side, eight minutes the other. You don't burn. It's not about damaging your skin. It's about manufacturing vitamin D. And if it's the time of year that you can't do that, then you have to supplement. How's your quality of sleep? Make sure you get rest. How's your quality of movement? It doesn't have to be a gym membership. It can be Tai Chi, Qigong, yoga, walking, gardening, just move. I mean, the list goes on and on in terms of what are the things that we can do for ourselves? Are we listening to music? Are we listening to news all the time and making ourselves crazy? Do we ever get out barefooted on the earth and ground ourselves? You know, there's so many things we can do that are cheap and easy, but take, take a minute. So I think those are things that transcend all the medicines because all the medicines talk about them and have access to them. They're just basic indigenous, all peoples would talk about those things. It's such a beautiful answer. For me, as someone who is sort of anti-authoritarian, I love the systems. I'm so grateful for people in the health care system that go out of their way, that sacrifice, that go to school to make people's lives better. That is so beautiful to me. And thank you to everybody that's doing that. I admire it from my heart. And my grace goes out to you. But you said, what can we do for ourselves? think that that's the answer to so many maladies and obviously people need help and that's fine to ask for it and you should but the question is we can do more do you think we can do more for our is it better for us to believe in ourselves to heal than it is to rely on a system to heal I don't think we should rely on the system The system is, you know, it's, I don't know what it is. It's a machine, you know? So for sure, we should always rely on ourselves and, um, and ask for help and ask for it, get quiet enough and listen, get asked for downloads. We'll get guided to, um, what podcasts to listen to. We'll get a book. We'll fall in our lap. A friend will introduce us to somebody, you know, like if we're, if we're asking for help, help comes, um, But I think there's nothing wrong with having, you have to build a team. Like I have a neurologist on my team. I have a physical therapist on my team. I have an acupuncturist on my team. So I was, I had to give a talk. There was a stem cell company that wanted to talk with a Parkinson's patient. So they wanted me to talk to their group of scientists, talk with a person from the perspective of a PWP, a person with Parkinson's. And they asked me, who was the most important person on my team? And I said, me. I am the most important person on my team for my health and for my medical team. And some of them were like, there was a little funny look. I said, but that's true for any patient, anyone with a cancer diagnosis, an ALS diagnosis, arthritis diagnosis, whatever the diagnosis is that's causing discomfort or fear, all those things. all those upsets, and you've become the patient. It's your chapter in life to now be the patient. You are the most important member of your team. You are the quarterback. And I don't think patients are given that agency To do that. And it doesn't mean you go alone to these appointments just because you're the quarterback. You bring your teammate. You bring your person. Like I said, you should have someone else with you. But you have different people. You don't just put all your eggs in one person's basket. And that's why we have second opinions. Because it takes group think to get better outcomes. Group think is a good thing. I know a number of people that have been seeking plant medicine, whether it's, you know, cannabis and treating symptoms of chemotherapy or it's other plant medicines for, you know, a simple thing like shouldn't say simple headaches or migraines. Like there's all this different. uh solutions and you know I think you can listen to a lot of podcasts and you can read a lot of books but like getting to the source like aaron you're a source of options right so finding these people and getting them on your team or even just talking to them briefly about what's possible and you'll find registered nurses that have uh knowledge of and what the applications for cannabis are and they're out there now and so it's not all one or the other you can really blend the solutions and have real conversations I had one of those nurses. I worked with her at UCSD. She was a nurse and a massage therapist and then a cannabis educator. I had her come talk to my women's support group about cannabis for Parkinson's. So yeah, they're out there and they want to help. And it's getting better. I mean, most of the doctors I deal with, but I self-select, they're very open-minded. And if I've come across somebody who wags their finger at me or rolls their eyes I just find a different person like oh no this isn't you know nineteen ninety whatever it's twenty twenty five there's no finger wagging at patients and eye rolling that's not empowering that's not that's not nourishment that's not in my opinion um part of the hippocratic oath you make a patient feel safe and you're present and you you can disagree or you can share concerns I was looking into HBOT, hyperbaric oxygen therapy for Parkinson's. I haven't pursued it, but I did research. And so in my rabbit holes that I go down to see like, what's the next thing? And I asked my neurologist, I said, oh, I'm thinking about HBOT. She was like, she had some concerns. And I'm like, okay, what are your concerns? She told me them. I'm like, okay, good to know, valid concerns. I'll consider that. And if I need a referral, she said, oh yeah, I'll give you a referral. So we collaborate, but I also want to hear why and where she's concerned. And if there's any merit, do I share the same concerns when she explains them to me? Because she's got a whole, like you said, George, these people went and studied for a long time. They are smart people. They are nice people. And they are not practicing medicine in the container that they want to practice medicine in. They're under different pressures than they should be. and timeframes and charting and Epic and quotas. And, you know, it's not them getting to decide everything it's insurance and administrators. And I feel for the medical personnel there, they're on, they want to serve, they want to help. They want to be part of the healing team and they don't have access to the same container that they maybe thought they would, or they used to. That's why some of them go into concierge medicine. They get out of the system because the system's broken. The system's too big to handle all the volume and still make a profit because, right? Follow the money. Yeah. I'm for socialized medicine personally. We have socialized libraries and socialized fire departments and socialized roads and socialized, you know, I'm for socialized medicine. Yeah. And Medicare is sort of a socialized medicine. And I got to join it two years ago. I love being a Medicare patient. It's so much easier and clearer and less paperwork. And I don't know it's, it's me. And, and, you know, I never was a go to the doctor person cause I never needed to go to the doctor. So I went from being a healthcare provider to now also a patient and I have more appointments. And I'm grateful that I'm not hitting because it's easier with Medicare. Yeah. to go to the doctor because you don't want to go bankrupt. Right. Right. They don't have to deal with that in other countries. They don't lose their house because they have a leg surgery. That's nice. I, um, are you guys okay on time? We're kind of coming up here to an hour and thirty minutes. Okay. Okay. So how has Aaron and this one? Feel free to jump in on this one, Christian. Like, how is your relationship with empathy changed before the slowing down and after the slowing down? I've had to get more empathetic with myself. I've had to get more compassionate for myself. You know, if I was judging myself, Clarissa, you know, it's having added on me, you know, um, I have had to have, I've had to cultivate more compassion, more acceptance, more allowance, and more right thought of myself, my journey. And then, then I have more of that skillset on board for others. Um, you know, what did I do wrong? There was a lot of, I had my tantrum and my meltdown and my upset back when this was first coming to light. A lot of fear, a lot of anger, a lot of upset, a lot of confusion. So yeah, I had to let myself have it and then let myself put it down so I can get on with cultivating other things like, love and acceptance and forgiveness and compassion and all the things but I I couldn't bypass I had to have my tantrum my first private ayahuasca session when I didn't have to worry about disturbing anybody else's journey I just screamed and yelled and cussed and cursed and hissy fitted life and god and parkinson's and and my ayahuasca was drumming and it was like, what else? What else? And we're in, it's private, right? So I could, you know, I just could just vomit it all out. And yeah. And then on the other side of that emptying, you know, after then, then I could feel the fear, then vomit all that. Then you could just get to the spaciousness. Spaciousness is okay. And one of the things that he said to me is like, okay, so if, You just let fear and anger run the show here and be constantly on board. You will not get quiet enough to hear any downloads or any lessons or any messages or any teachings that this portal, he didn't use that word, but this diagnosis has for you. Like what are the messages? What are the opportunities? But I had it first empty out, or at least go look and acknowledge. It's like, oh, yep, there's anger. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, yep, there's sadness. There's fear. I had to go in the laundry basket and pull out all the things. And then I could make room for, OK, there's some. possibilities in walking this side of the block, this side of the street. There's some, there's the portal, there's the opportunities there. Who's, who's am I going to meet? What? Oh, and then the, that then had me go do more plant medicine. I'm not saying plant medicine is the way for everybody, but it's a lot faster than therapy and I'm still doing therapy. Right. So I, you know, they're just all tools, pull the tool that you need. But, um, Personally for me, talk therapy is too slow. But I like it in conjunction with an integration with plant medicine that has let me go to get some other downloads. I don't know if that answered the question. Beautifully. I hear grace and dignity. You know, when we sit with the plant medicines, we're given back the grace and the dignity to deal with the situations in our life. And I think that sometimes in the Western world, we take the dignity out of dying. Like we keep people alive for so much longer for the benefit of everyone else. Alan Watts used to say a hospital is is. is created for the peace of mind of the people working there. They don't want to hear them scream. They don't want to hear them yell. They keep everybody quiet in a room locked up in this white suit so it looks clean. But really it's for the people that work there. But I hear grace and dignity in my own experiences in those quiet moments where tragedy has struck me. And I've gotten to a point where I can let it in and deal with, like, that's where the grace and dignity comes in. Like, that's where like, okay, I'm going to sit with this. I'm going to let go of the fear. I'm going to yell. I'm going to scream. I'm going to get mad. I'm going to clench up my fist and do whatever I got to do. But that makes room for the grace and dignity to deal with the situation. What are your thoughts on that? Totally. Totally. I think, yes, I had my tantrum. I actually, you know, I called it a tantrum. My friend was like, it was an emotional release. Stop calling it a tantrum. But once I released all those bigger things and the smoke screens, you know, then I could sit and listen and let Grace come in and then ask, okay, so now what do I do? How do I be with this? How do I walk with this? I don't know how to walk with this. I don't know how to live with this. I don't know. I don't know. And then one of the other things was, that the iOS scare taught me was, make friends with uncertainty and live with only don't know. So I actually have a rock that I painted only don't know. And that, and not knowing I don't have to force anything. I can just like, it will unfold. Yeah. When I need to know, I'll know. And what's that old saying? It's on a need to know basis and you don't need to know. Right. And so it's like, it did let me have some room to stay in, Surrender, I don't know. And some trusting, like it'll be what it's gonna be. And one day it will be my time to die. I hope I don't die from Parkinson's. I hope I just die with it. But where is it? Who knows? We're all gonna go. We just don't know when and how, unless for some people who might have that information like Betty's son. But yeah. the emptying, the not, when I can stay in not knowing, like then my boga shows up, you know, when I can, when I can, you know, it's like, okay. And I take my, my Makuna and my Sinemet because that was my combination after watching that European webinar. I take one Makuna and half a Sinemet. But I didn't know I was going to do that until I, after I watched a webinar, all of a sudden that was like, Felt right, muscle tested or pendulum for it. Yep, got thumbs up, started doing that. And it sits better with me than the only cinnamon. But I didn't know that. So it's just kind of like staying open and staying in the river and trying things, being willing to try things. And that I source, it's not necessarily coming from my neurologist, but then I tell her what I'm doing. What at my next meeting, she's like, okay, what are you doing now? Yeah. Okay, this is how I'm taking it. I appreciate so much of what you've shared today here and just knowing you and getting to have other conversations with you, but to have you share so much of your personal journey. not your Parkinson's, but the Parkinson's. I think there's just a wealth of information and knowledge and experience that hopefully will make some other folks' path a little bit easier. I hope so. I mean, I'm happy that I'm doing things that are helping me. It'll be really a gift if any of what I've done to help me turns out helping anybody else. Because that's kind of like, if I have to walk this journey, then I want it to be of service, not just to me, but to others and to the Parkinson's community. If anything I've figured out helps anybody else figure things out, it takes a village. And so many more things are becoming available. People are thinking out of the box about different ways probiotics or different delivery systems. I asked my neurologist about mitochondria. I said, don't you think mitochondrial dysfunction has something to do with Parkinson's? Yes. Why don't we ever talk about that? So there is going to be, there is a mitochondrial expert at UCSD that she's setting me up with. So I can have a conversation with that person. Don't know where it will go. She might think I'm a nut job because she works with people who have inherited mitochondrial dysfunction, which how do we know that I don't? But anyway, it's like I asked about something and my neurologist always steps in. It's like, okay, well, let's get you that conversation. Maybe it'll help me, maybe it won't help me, maybe it just checks it off the list, but I'm happy for the ability to have another point in the river of somebody else's wisdom on something that might inform me on what else I can do to help myself. Because I think it takes any of these diseases, I think are systemic. It's not just a one. If only we do this, then poof it all. It's like we need to do multiple things to get the system back on board because it isn't broken in just one place and it isn't even broken. It's in the process of healing. Yeah, beautifully said. I want to thank you both so much for being here, your time today. And Erin, look, I know there's people listening right now and maybe they, maybe they find themselves going through a portal. Maybe they know someone who's going through a portal. Maybe they're like, oh my gosh, I would love to talk to Erin. How do I reach out to her? Maybe she says she wanted to help people. How can I get her to help me? Where can they find you? Or do you have a place that they can find you if they want to reach out with some questions? I don't have a webpage. I have an email. It's A-C-U-E-R-I-N at yahoo.com. Ladies and gentlemen, that'll be down in the show notes. If you're curious and if you find yourself going through a portal, just know that there's light on the other side. You going through that portal is going to help everybody else. You can become a light in the labyrinth for someone else to find that next step. Christian, any closing thoughts? I just appreciate you and Aaron and spending the time. This has been an awesome Friday morning. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Thanks for the vision. And thanks for your podcast, George. Thank you for everything. I'm grateful. Hang on briefly afterwards to everybody within the sound of my voice and everybody that participated today. Thank you so much for being here. And I hope you live your best life and you have the courage to take care of yourself. That's all we got, ladies and gentlemen. Aloha. Amen, I hope oh.