Ladies and gentlemen, I hope your day is going beautiful. I hope that the birds are singing and the sun is shining and the wind is at your back. I got a great show for you today. Ladies and gentlemen, esteemed guests and fellow seekers of knowledge and transformation, it is with great honor and enthusiasm that I introduce you to a visionary pioneer in the realm of consciousness exploration and healing, Malika. For over a decade, she has traversed the realms of the mind and spirit guided by an unwavering belief in the transformative power of psychedelics. With each journey into the depths of consciousness, she has discovered profound insights into the human psyche and its capacity for evolution. Fueled by a profound sense of gratitude towards the sacred gifts of plant medicine, Malika has embarked on a mission to share her wisdom with the world. As the founder of Psilocybin San Francisco, she has cultivated an educational oasis, a sanctuary where knowledge flows freely and harm reduction is paramount. Through her tireless efforts, she illuminates the path towards responsible and intentional psychedelic use, nurturing a community of seekers dedicated to personal growth and healing. Her journey is not merely one of experiential exploration, but also of scholarly pursuit. Armed with a master's of science in psychology from the United Kingdom with a specialization in psilocybin, she seamlessly weaves together empirical research and firsthand experience, bridging the gap between theory and practice. But her brilliance extends beyond the realm of psychedelics. With a wealth of experience as an event manager, including a remarkable company exit and a distinguished tenure as a TED licensee, she embodies the spirit of innovation and leadership. Her passion for bringing people together transcends cultural and linguistic boundaries, as evidenced by her volunteer work across more than 70 countries and her fluency in five languages. Today nestled in the vibrant tapestry of San Francisco, she continues her quest for understanding, delving deeper into the mysteries of psychedelics and their profound implications for personal growth and healing. As we embark on this journey of exploration and discovery, let us open our hearts and minds to the infinite possibilities that await us. Thank you so much for being here, Malika. I hope I'm saying your name right. Is that the right way to say it? Actually, you pronounce it Milica, but I'm used to in the US. It's Melissa Milica. Whatever it is, it's fine. It's just a name. You will meet the core of me soon. Yeah, not through my name only. First of all, I want to say thank you for having me, and I'm very honored to be on your podcast. And hello to everybody who is listening. I know you have like 30,000 followers on YouTube, and that's just astonishing. Thank you. Thank you for that. I think that when we talk about the topic of astonishing, psychedelics come to mind and helping people and their transformative journey comes to mind. Maybe you could talk a little bit about what was it that kind of brought you to this crossroads of psychedelics and consciousness? Well, I was a stupid teenager. That's how it happened. And yeah, I wanted to try anything that is new, that was making me exit my boredom. And that's how I tried mushrooms for the first time. Of course, I didn't know anything about harm reduction. I didn't even understand that harm reduction is needed and education is needed before you try. Yeah, I did recreationally, I did it for fun, and I had a few stupid moves along the way, but eventually I learned now, like 10 plus years into my psychedelic usage, I understand the importance of education, before anything and harm reduction. That's why I even started suicide in SF, to educate people. So it started as a seek for exiting, like the tool to exit the boredom, but then it turned into a tool for consciousness evolution. And that is what I use it for today. I use it for consciousness exploration and to spread my limitations and boundaries of my subconsciousness and consciousness and all that is. It's a wonderful beginning. I think so many people have found themselves in that same particular avenue. Sometimes you'll hear the phrase, it's all medicinal. When we look at the ways in which we used it recreational as kids, in some ways, that was our first pulling back from the veil and getting to see different points of view. In some ways, it's your introduction to philosophy when you get to maybe on a recreational journey with some friends staring up at the stars and listening to some music. All of a sudden, you have all these thoughts that just come pouring into you on some level, right? Yes, and I actually believe that all philosophers used some kind of psychedelics in order to allow their thoughts to move so freely. Maybe not them all, but most of them, some kind of opioids for sure. Some mind altering substances just for them to not only them, but like artists, like many visionaries. um in the past have used psychedelics even though it's not well known and it's not well um put in scripts but we know that that it it's what happened even even animals you know they would use psychedelic uh mushrooms just for fun there is like uh there is a research shown that uh reindeers in the north of europe they they would eat psychedelics they would specifically look for them and eat them like psychedelic mushrooms so if animals did it we sure did it intentionally Yeah, you can see from some of the cave paintings, too, the way in which the artistry is done in different caves south of France. It's just amazing to me to see the similarities between philosophy and harm reduction. know what I mean by that like sometimes in the state of a psychedelic journey you begin having these philosophical ideas about why your life is the way it is and a lot of times that can lead to a change in perspective that can be healing it can lead to a change in a relationship that is unhealthy whether with yourself or with other people and I think that that kind of speaks to this idea of spirituality philosophy and healing and science together what do you think Oh, let me... Pack that one. Yeah, yeah, you packed it. I need to unpack it in my mind. It's very early. It's like now 11. I'm still trying to make my mind roll. Can you please repeat the question before again? I need some time. Yeah. So it seems to me that the same... the same way that psychedelics bring us to philosophical thought make us ask these questions why yeah it seems that that same philosophical thought that questioning of why that psychedelic induced philosophy is what also leads us down the road to healing Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, it's all intertwined, right? You cannot take away one from another. And it's not exclusively, it's one part of the puzzle. Those kind of thoughts, they arise. And I think if we cling on to them and we pull it as a thread, we will eventually come to a... what Jung calls the complex in our subconsciousness. And if we pull onto a thread like a thought and then philosophy around that thought, and then you come to something greater within yourself. And that's where the healing happens for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One, one, something very fascinating that I find and I want to get your opinion on is For someone who speaks so many languages, and when we look at the way language is formed, how it takes sort of a linguistic pathway for us to really do anything or for us to make sense of the world, sometimes we need the linguistic pathway to say it either in our minds or out loud. For someone like yourself that speaks five different languages, You think that that allows you to see the world through like five different lenses? Because sometimes you conjugate verbs different and different languages and you have all these different cultural aspects. I think that gives you a really unique or maybe a more holistic approach of what's happening in the world. What do you think? yes for sure that's why I actually started learning languages I mean first of all I started it because it comes naturally to me that's that's like the first thing and then the second thing I want to understand these people um to the fullest extent that I can so I traveled a lot and uh when I would travel to spanish-speaking areas I even though they speak english over whenever I was traveling I would find people who speak english but it was not enough I felt that I was missing a link and then I started to learn languages and the more I spoke spanish the more they would accept me and and the more you can understand them so I'm a different personality on each of my languages if I were to start speak uh in italian italiana laura I would be my my sound sound of my voice even changes so I think for sure talking another language requires you to have, so for me it's five, five different compartments, like separate. And these separate compartments in my mind space, they create entities for themselves. They create personalities as I said and different view view viewpoints for example if I would speak if I were to speak on my native serbian language I would see the word differently sometimes I even have different values if I were to speak in spanish I would I would if I would be in Spain speaking Spanish, I would feel more relaxed and I would feel like, okay, why are we even working? Like siesta comes in play, even though in English I'm like, let's work. There's no siesta. I'm just giving an example. But yeah, for sure. It gives you Access to different cultures in a way that enriches your personality, enriches who you are, and it gives you perspective to the nuances of social existence, humanity. I love that. That's the first time I've asked that question to multiple people, and that's the first time I received an answer like that, too. Being able to take on the societal role by speaking the language, it sounds like, yeah, that should be. Now, let me ask a follow-up question with that. Do you think about psychedelics differently? Like if you take on different personas when you speak different languages, do you take on the societal attitudes towards psychedelics when you shift yourself in those different languages or the way you talk about them in different languages? Well, no, because psychedelics transcend language. Psychedelics, when you take psychedelics, I don't speak language. I speak energy. I speak frequency. That is my sixth language, I would say. I'm going to start saying that I speak six languages from now on. I love it. Because that's it. That's the language I speak when I take a mind-altering substance and I go... beyond my body I go into space time around me and I meet some other entities I would talk to them with frequency with telepathy language doesn't exist over there yeah so no to answer your question no uh languages don't um influence my attitude towards uh psychedelics The idea of, I know language is, sometimes in the world of psychedelics, we bump up against the ineffable. And perhaps language is a poor description of the way we can communicate in altered states of awareness. But it does seem like if I'm permitted to use that word language for a moment, On a really high dose psilocybin trip or psychedelic state, it does seem like frequency communicating is a thing. You can look at a plant and begin to understand that, wow, this particular plant grows a third of the way up the tree and it puts out a flower at 47 degrees on Tuesday, January 7th at 2.33 p.m. It knows how to do it. You're seeing that language in real time, be it frequency or language. Maybe you could speak a little bit more to this idea of understanding frequency and language and communication of these altered states. I mean, I can tell you about how I perceive things. But as we all know, this is only my perception. And we still to this day don't understand many of these altered states of awareness, as you said. So the thing is, for me, being on a... altered state of consciousness induced by psychedelics, it's the one and only the ultimate language, for the lack of better words, the ultimate means of communication. That's better explanation because when you communicate in that state, I could communicate with anybody with you with with there is no with you with with people who don't even speak my language with with animals so there is no limitations to with whom you can communicate or with what it's just a matter of a dosage yeah and the thing is um let me just formulate my thoughts uh yeah the the thing is Our body currently in this state is limited, is limited to voice, hearing. I hear you, something I need to process with my mind space. I need to formulate as I just demonstrated. I need to formulate it and then I need to speak. It's a very complicated process. But when I am out there in the altered state of consciousness, I just need to do the following. Just send out the frequency. I don't even need to... I don't need to think about it. It's just there. Something is there in my mind space. I just send it out like a click. It's sent. And this person receives it instantly. Click. It's there. So it's a very easy way of communicating. And I believe that animals and plants and they all can receive these messages that we send them and they send us, as you mentioned, communicating with the plants as well. I think they can perceive it in their own way as well. So we are not separate from our environment and us being able to communicate like this telepathically means that that's the ultimate proof that we are not separate from our environment there is this endless um endless wave of energy around us and there is this field that connects us all and we are just currently limited to accessing that field consciously even though we are accessing it all the time but consciously we cannot I cannot send you now message without zoom with my mind Maybe one day we are going towards that evolving to be able to do that and to unlock that part of ourselves to be mentally capable of, okay, I'm going to close my eyes. I'm going to send a message to a specific person and they will receive it without Neuralink or without any of these things. And actually, this has been proven by physics, the double split effect. do you know about that? Miracle. Yeah. Yeah. So the double slit effect for those of you who don't know, please Google it and research it. It is the thing that keeps me up at night because that's where spirituality and physics, quantum physics, they, they cross paths. And that's one, like, that's one point of where they meet. And we know that now. So the thing is when, when, there were there was a they there was um um so I speak five languages and sometimes it's hard to pull uh words so yeah anyways there was they created a wall and they uh there was like a two two doors and they were shooting um photons like one photon through first one door then the second door and they were observing this photon and the photon would would always go through either one door or the second door or like first or the second door and then they said okay let us remove the camera the observer let us remove the camera when they remove the camera the photon they shoot it once the photon goes through both doors every time when they remove the camera photon goes through both doors and they could you will you will see online how they understood that they go through the other but it did and the thing is this proves that photon was a particle when we observe it consciously and we when we don't observe it consciously it's a wave It's a wave. So we, as me, you, everything around us, it's a particle because we observe it and perceive it consciously. But then there is a question. If there is no conscious observer, would everything around us be a wave, just a wave of energy floating? and probability, wave of probability existence. So that's what we on Psychedelic Journeys talk about all the time. Everything is, we are one with everything and we are not separate from our environment. This is what we mean. It's the same thing, just explained in a different way. I love it. I love it. As you're explaining it, you did a wonderful job at it. As you're explaining it, it makes me feel In sort of this lower frequency and vibration of day-to-day monotony, you know, a lot of us have been conditioned to see the world in a certain way and act as a certain label. You are a truck driver. You are a teacher. You know, when you act as this individual labor of which you're observed doing work, you're the particle. But when you find yourself in a moment of philosophical bliss or a moment of love, a moment of truth, or you witness a miracle like seeing your daughter building a Lego set or you're with your beautiful other and you wake up and you're happy, all of a sudden you're in the wave form. And I'm curious. I'm hopeful that we're evolving into an understanding that we can change between both. I'm hopeful. Do you think that that's maybe where we're moving towards, this conscious understanding we're both? Yes. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I mean, it will take us, I think, a couple of thousands of years for sure. But we are moving there, you know. But when you look at it on a grander scale of time, that's nothing. It's fine. Even though it takes like thousands and thousands of years, it's fine. It's important we get there. um because that will give us um unlimited access to one another and understand each other in a different perspective if we don't kill each other with this war situation that we're currently doing and that is another thing that I really cannot understand and trying to why are people doing this to one another and anyways that's a different topic Yeah. Maybe psychedelics is the answer to that topic. You know, there was been some interesting experiments where they had a gentleman from Israel and a gentleman from Palestine and they took some MDMA and, you know, it didn't solve everything, but it definitely helped the two come together on some mutual understandings. And I'm, I know that people say psychedelics aren't a panacea, but on some level, I think that they're a step in the right direction. When people begin to see themselves as more than the particle, as more than a man or a woman, as more than, then it's a lot easier to get out of that scarcity mindset. Scarcity seems to be a big problem for us when we get there. We're monkeys. We're monkeys. That's why, that's why, you know, because we are afraid somebody will take our land, our food, you know, I will be hungry. I'll, you know, those things, they scare a monkey and they scare us. Even though we are wrapped in a human suit and like having these fancy clothes, we are still monkey like to the core. We are an animal. And, and if we are hungry, God forbid, what can we do? Just not be hungry anymore. And the thing is, you mentioned about psychedelics and involving psychedelics in these war situations. And I believe it's a tool. Psychedelics is a tool. It's not a solution for sure. That's what I came to understand. um because I've met so many people who do psychedelics and they still to this day haven't solved these basic things like ego um so they haven't met their ego they are allowing ego to take place and they are doing things for all the wrong reasons even though they do psychedelics regularly so psychedelics are the tool preparation and integration is a part of this greater solution. So integration is the tool as well. Preparation, um, all these things. And, uh, because eventually when you take psychedelics, it will wear off after a while. Yeah. They may be friends, uh, Palestinian. I mean, really guy, uh, maybe friends currently when they are under chemical induced, uh, state, but after a while, if they, uh, After a while, if they just continue with their own lives in their own environment, maybe they're going to be polluted again. So it's a tool and it can help, but it takes time and it takes a lot of work. A lot of work. It sort of reminds me, like our behaviors in the real world sort of remind me of some of the neurofeedback you get about neuroplasticity. On psychedelics, you can see that perhaps the default mode network is shut down and then the brain is... creating these new pathways for thought, so too is that similar, at least in my humble opinion, that when you're building a new relationship with a new friend for the first time, it's a lot like processing information in a new part of the brain. You don't know how it's going to act. You don't know how this person is going to do, but you do begin to see that person in a new way. And it seems to me that large doses are probably even some micro doses over a long period of time but the neuroplasticity seems to to echo the behavior of us in real life you know it's what's your take on is that too far out there or what do you think I haven't formed an opinion regarding that but now when I think about it um I mean, neuroplasticity happens because of our behavior. It's not like mimicking. It's happening because it's a causal relationship. So the more that we involve ourselves in life, in different life circumstances, the more neuroplasticity will happen. That is why actually psychedelics help with neuroplasticity so much among other things is because in eight hours, if you take LSD or five, when you take psilocybin, it will give you so much input, so much of new perspectives that neuroplasticity can happen. So if you actually mimic your psychedelic experience into your real life, go out there, meet new people, see things from a different angle, take a different pathway home. If you try to induce different ways of living, even to the micro situations, neuroplasticity will happen. And yeah, it's connected. It's like not mimicking, but it's connected for sure. Yeah. It's fascinating to think of. And it gives me a lot of hope to think about the way in which you can be granted or Sometimes I, on some high, I had a recent dose where I had some really fantastic insights in my mind. And it seems to me that the answers to problems are not so much learned behavior as they are revealed to us. And it gets back to this idea of language or resonance or frequency that we see in the world. Maybe we just see this frequency for the first time, but it seems like the answers probably in relationships and probably even mathematical and, and, problems that we have in society are revealed to us when we're at these altered states of awareness. Instead of going to school and learning from somebody, it seems like the big questions are often revealed to us, at least in my opinion. What do you think on that? I would... But psychedelic trip is also some kind of a speed-up school, speed-up lesson. Well said. So it's not like that... that we go there and I mean because also in the school they reveal things to us if you're a child and if you go to school you don't know how to multiply and they reveal the multiplying to you you know it's like from a child's perspective because child didn't know it existed so it goes to school it's revealed to to the child so that's we are the children here when it comes to psychedelics we go there like we go to school and they reveal something to us maybe there are some species out there that already have have this knowledge is a part of themselves. Maybe when we go to psychedelic states, we are the children and they're grown ups in these states already somewhere out there, you know. So the thing is. What I wanted to convey here is maybe everything so there are so many possibilities we don't even know what psychedelic is and we are now blabbering about things but yeah the first thing is we could co-create if we are the only conscious beings ever existed which is not likely but like if we are then we are co-creating this with our environment that's first thing second thing is if we are not the only one and there are others and we can communicate with them through some um infinite environment energy network um what if they are more advanced than us and they're showing us things through psychedelics um so so there are many many possibilities um you I cannot even fathom you know even to this day actually when I take psychedelics and I'm uh having a psychedelic trip I wonder is this all in my head is this all um a movie that I watch in my head, or is this really happening? Even though I'm, of course, a pawn into this is happening. This is the most real I have felt in my life. And if you were to ask me, I would say, yeah, this is happening. in order to stay objective and to approach things with a critique point of view as well, I must ask a question. Is it all a movie? Is it all a projection of our experience to this day? And is it all Is it only that we can access some kind of collective subconsciousness and we are just taking stuff from there and we are seeing and then we think it's a part of us? I don't know. Nobody wrote a manual on how to be a human and how to use the brain. So it's very thought provoking. It is thought provoking. To talk about these things, yeah. Yeah. You know, sometimes maybe you have experienced this where under heightened states of awareness or like a really large dose of psilocybin for me, maybe 10 grams, there's this time slicing that happens where I can see my life play out through multiple lifetimes. And when something like that happens, it's like you get a glimpse of what could be possible. Like, yeah, here's the movie and here's where it could have gone. And then you get to play out that entire lifetime in about an hour or what feels like a wave of time that flows by you and you're living five different lifetimes. And then it subsides again, and you're like, did that just happen? Which one am I in right now? Did I cross over to a different one? It makes me get back to this idea of the earth being a school and these particular types of things being almost like exogenous neurotransmitters. Maybe the earth is providing us with the nutrients we need to evolve on some level. Have you felt that time slicing before? What's your take on it? Of course. I think many of us could delve in high doses being there. It's weird. First of all, of those of you who haven't experienced that, I can say it's weird because you can see yourself with a different family. At the time when I experienced that, I saw myself having children with a One of them, I was even a lesbian. In another one, I was being a janitor. In another one, I was... So another friend mentioned, oh, I was a turtle in a war. Like, what the heck? What are those things? How do... how can I experience the whole lifetime in an hour yeah and I see it happening like from me being a child then going to school and and then it messes up with your reality to the extent where you cannot shake off once you are once the trip wears off you cannot shake off these other lives because you're a part of them you were emotionally invested. It's so weird and I don't even understand. If I were to come back to the my question is it a movie or um is it something that we really live through it's um whatever it is it's that it stays with you you know it it it's an imprint on your personality um in this life because you cannot forget it you cannot now it's now it's shaping you for sure knowing all these things and um It's wild. It is wild. It's so amazing. I really enjoy talking about it and learning about it and experiencing it and getting to bounce ideas off other people in similar situations. But I know that you've got a whole world of business that you're doing with Bizdelics and San Francisco and you're touring. Maybe we can get into some of this stuff about what you've got going on and what you've created in this particular environment. So as we started to talk about harm reduction, this is the one thing I really wanted to give back to medicine. And this is the one thing I felt called to. Doing some kind of work with mushrooms and helping people understand, specifically general public, what is the preparation, how to navigate the trip, how to integrate the trip. to provide some kind of resources. And, um, I came up with suicide in San Francisco. That is our organization that provides education, um, regarding, as I said, suicide news and harm reduction through conferences, courses, a wealth of free materials, uh, through our social media, through our newsletter. And every time I take mushrooms, um, after I started it, I have this moment or several moments where mushrooms come and they talk to me and say thank you every single time for doing it. And that's how you know you are on the right path, you know, because the medicine is supporting you and they encourage you to continue. That can be getting back to my question about is it a movie or not that can be my imagination just telling me that I'm where I need to be and I should continue and it's giving me my subconsciousness is motivating me to continue by doing that but it can be the mushroom as well I cannot say that it's not because I feel as if I'm talking to entity of mushroom that I'm taking. So that's one thing. And the second thing I'm working on is Bizdelics. So the first thing is for general public. The second thing is for the psychedelic industry specifically. Bizdelics provides resources for the industry. And I started by creating a list, psychedelic ecosystem list, now currently has 500 entries. but this month will become 3 000 entries from the psychedelic space because of uh generosity of this community that that we are a part of and um they all donated the databases to me and now I've processed the data and I'm about to publish it's going to be a 3000 uh list if you want to understand who are the players who to contact for what just go to peacedelics.com and it's a free resource for everybody to use and the second thing is um because when I created the list it provided value people reacted it's all great but then the list was dry there was only names so I decided to showcase people who are moving this industry forward. Who are these people? I wanted to showcase it to everybody and say, look, if they could do it, you can come, come. Let's all create this beautiful movement and industry to become soon, yeah, together. Yeah, it's in some ways, it seems like the human mycelium, right? Like people are growing together the same way that the mycelium under the ground grows together. And then it produces fruit at this conference or produces fruit in this PTSD or in this thing over here. It's so amazing in its similarities, isn't it? Yeah, yes, it is. And I will continue to talk about mycelium. I just need to tell you about one thing that just came to my mind. So I want to share that because I interviewed so many people from the psychedelic space, and every time we talk about what they did before this industry, they would, or I, or together, we would refer to it as in my past life. So the thing is, people who are in the psychedelic space, they're here to stay. This is their new life. It's not a new job. It's not like something that they're going to do now and then after a few years. It's like their new life. They're born again into this life and being in the psychedelic industry. And it's a calling. And not everybody can... can be here for money only because somehow the medicine and the intricate vibe of energy and psychedelic realm will kick you off. You need to be here for the purpose. So that's what I wanted to share. And regarding mycelium, yeah. So Bizdelics was referred, and me personally, as the mycelium of the psychedelic space. And that's why I renamed it actually in my bio, Instagram bio, if you go there you'll see. It's mycelium of the psychedelic industry because people connecting and doing business for me is the greatest joy. I don't care about leveraging those things. I just want us all to connect on a mutual ground and create something beautiful, something that was not there before. And mycelium does that as well. Mycelium just connects. And for example, if one tree needs nutrients, it asks through mycelium, to come like another please send out anything and other trees around them send the nutrients to this tree that needs it so this is how I want us also to operate in the psychedelic space if I i would ask everybody how can I help you and then they would tell me and I would try to find nutrients with another people and send to this person because I don't believe in competition as well in the psychedelic space. We are all here for the same reason, for the same purpose. And if I see somebody doing similar things, I'm like, okay, let's meet up. Let's share resources. Let's help each other. Let's not replicate the societal behavior that did with other industries, because why should we? Let's create our own values and let's be mycelium and play together and not against each other. Yeah, it's really well said. Thank you for doing that. You can almost see the excommunication of competition in the way in which the psychedelic environment is being rolled out. And what I mean by that is if you look at even at cannabis on some level, like it refused to be monetized. And when people tried to monetize it, it found a way to, to, it didn't work. And the same thing when people try to patent or use these analogs of, you know, like for whole dip door, you know, all these different analogs that people are putting out there, they kind of get monetized, but not really, you know, and it just, it just seems like there's something bigger at play. That's not allowing that to happen. It's like, okay, you can play in this medical container, but it's, it's for everybody. It's right here. It's free. It's kind of beautiful in a way, isn't it? Yes, it is. And that's why actually I decided to work with mushrooms primarily for general public because mushrooms grow everywhere. 215, I think, species all around the world, even in Serbia, like there are like a few of native psilocybin mushrooms. Like if you go to the forest and know what to look for, you will find psilocybin mushrooms. It's easy to grow. It's easily accessible to everybody. It's low cost. So I think that's the tool that... anybody can have plus if they educate themselves on preparation integration it can change the world literally it can skyrocket us to unimaginable consciousness levels without even without taking them we can we can gather these states and learn how to access them even without psychedelics we can evolve to do that Yeah. On some level, I think they're like the training wheels being provided for us. Like, okay, here's the training wheels first. Pretty soon we'll take these off, but you need these to begin to see this stuff, you know? And it's. Yeah. It's, it's wild. And, um, us talking about it, uh, You know, like animals and plants, they just exist. What we perceive so far, they just exist in this state. Maybe they are not aware of their existence, but they just exist and they're okay with it. But you and I, we have the ability to conceptualize this existence and talk about it. And that's mind blowing if you think about it. Like we talk about our existence and we don't even understand it. And we don't even... We cannot explain it, but we talk about it. Isn't that the most exciting times to live? It reminds me of a child who can't yet fully form sentences, but they begin to use words. I think that's where we are as a species. Like we're just beginning to be able, just beginning to communicate meaning to one another. Like we're just at the beginning of that, but we think we're so advanced. We're just putting sentences together. But that's, that's, that's the thing. It's beautiful. Ego is needed. Ego is very much necessary in this world. Um, So the child, I have a child named my own child. Yeah, thank you. I see it on his example. He doesn't understand that he's a separate being person from me because his ego is still not formed and he needs ego in order to survive. and uh ego is good sometimes we we mention egoism like oh ego is bad yeah ego is a tool you can use it for bad things but you can use it also for good things like existence and etc um anyways yeah uh the I i when I speak I just sidetracked so many things what I wanted what I wanted what I wanted to do to point out here is that uh Yes, our ego makes us think that we are more advanced than we are, makes us empowered to think that we are the higher species or something. Ego makes us think that we are higher species and then we are more important than everybody else around us. But that is needed for our survival. That is actually needed. But it's good that we have humans like you, like me, like my people who understand that we are just babies trying to talk and we still blabber because we don't really know what's happening. Is it a simulation? Is it this or that? Or are we collectively a part of one brain cell of a giant somewhere? That's pulsing. We don't even know what's happening. Is there one consciousness or are there many consciousness and there are brothers and sisters and they communicate? Are there so many possibilities and questions that it's just impossible to fathom with this monkey brain? Yeah. The story of the ego reminds me of a child beginning to walk. They need their ego. Otherwise, they quit trying to walk. You need that unrealistic set of purpose. It's like, I can do it no matter what. You're not going to stop me. That's what gets you to that next point. You need that. Yes. In some ways, it's exciting to see maybe peak ego happening because that means that you're at the next stage of a breakthrough. Okay, yep, peak ego. Now you're at the next one. Now everything falls away. And if you look at all of us, each individual throughout the world as part of one of us, A large part of society, like this, the demographic cliff of a certain age of baby boomers are getting to pass on to whatever comes next. And with them comes a lot of these older ideas that may not be serving us anymore. I'm not saying they're wrong. They were right for the time. But this next evolution is this next phase of people are beginning to move on. And so too, does that allow us and the people below us to take that next step into what is possible? And it seems like everything's dying and falling away, but isn't that what birth is on some level? If anyone has ever seen birth knows that death is right there next to it. There's blood and guts. And there's a real possibility that baby doesn't make it, you know, like birth and death are one in the same. And we're seeing it right now. And I, I really believe even though, you know, there's that great saying that says it's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. And I know it seems dark, but I think if people try to light a candle, they'll see, whoa, we are on the cusp of a magnificent change. Something is being born right now in front of us. And we all can play a part in it. If we choose to really, um, embrace it? Is that too optimistic? So I think what you just described can be applied to any moment in human history and any moment in the future. it's always like something is happening. Something is unrolling. I could feel, yes, because it is, we are evolving and us who are sensitive to that, we can feel what is coming next. And we're excited for that. And I just want to touch back on the ego that you mentioned previously. You said you feel like there is a peak ego and then you break through it and you there is this state that comes after but what I want to just shed light on it's people who break through their egos on the psychedelic journey sometimes fall into a trap calling I'm egoless and I believe in the ultimate good and I saw things that you didn't and it's called spiritual ego it's just a different side of the coin the thing is ego will use Because it's very tricky. It's a tool, but it can use you as a tool as well for its existence. And it will mask itself with the material that you provide. The thing is, what we can do the best for our human evolution when it comes to ego, I think it's understand it as a tool. and saddle it and ride it and just use it for for existence use it for um driving the sense of purpose use it for not allowing others to enter your uh space personal space like boundaries no this is my space you know for for existential things use it consciously and not see it as something good or bad. When ego peaks, it's just what it happened. When it peaks for the first time, I would say, it just happens that the boiling happens for you to see your ego for the first time, and it enlarges so you can see it for the first time. And once you see it, it pops, but then it starts drawing in a different environment. So the thing is, We should just settle our ego as a tool and have it next to us and not see it as something that should possess us and use different materials to grow and to form in a different way. Yeah. It seems to speak to the idea of relationships with ourselves and learning them and back to the idea of evolving and seeing the world in different ways. It's mind-blowing to me. Yeah, we have so many parts of ourselves that... Soul. Soul is a tool as well, as I perceive it currently. We have so many parts of ourselves. Mind is also a part. They're all tools. And there is something behind looking what's happening. So when you... I don't know if you... Do you think in images or words? When I talk about things, do you envision them happening or you just process them in words? I think I'm more words. I think I'm more, even though I can process images faster, I think the way I was brought up and conditioned being a little bit older was more reading and then comprehending where in today's multimedia world you know visual fluency is vastly vastly more put out there so yeah I think maybe a mix of both but I think it's more now it's more towards visual but I was based on words does that make sense what about you so You know, I get so present into conversations and into a present moment that I sometimes forget what I was saying. Like, what I started talking about, can you remind me if you remember? Yeah, we were just talking about the way in which... Do you think in language or do you think in words and how ego was a tool? But before that, before I ask you a question, never mind, it will come up, whatever. Yeah, it will. Anyways, yeah, so... I think in visual um I i process things visually primarily oh yeah why I wanted to ask yeah I remember now so uh when you when you talk to yourself in words you hear something in your mind space but who is hearing that there is a there is something behind all of that listening to a voice talking to you talking um if that makes sense and that's called self in psychology the self and this self is also a tool for existence so the the point that wants to make there are so many tools we just need to point like see them inside of ourselves and outside and just settle them and use them for evolution and for existence this this was my purpose and we can continue to talk now about the visual and and word thinking if you like yeah I you know sometimes this brings up an interesting question sometimes in in a deep psychedelic experience you'll be Treated to a show of three-dimensional or maybe some four-dimensional Tetrahedron or these weird poly Geo geometrical figures. I always think that there's a language there and the language that I see is like wow Look at how this thing connects in all these strange ways and then that leads me to the idea Well, how do I connect these other things in strange ways? but it almost seems like these geometrical images are a language of sorts any thoughts on that and I would think that they are a way of a different way of communicating for sure presenting complicated things in a simple way that we can perceive them because I think that because when I'm on my psychedelic journeys and when I was on my psychedelic journey before I would receive so many i call them messages so many insights and at that point of time I could understand them just by looking at these images but then I when I'm not on my journey anymore I'm like what just happened and I most of the for some journeys most of the things I cannot even comprehend like it was 100 clear on the journey and then after journey it was like um okay like do I do I understand this but then after a certain point of time like uh like five ten years passes and I think from my journey pops up it just needed me to evolve to a certain stage to be able to understand the message I got so currently now I had a I had one ayahuasca experience in my life where I had near when I lived through my near-death experience and I felt like I was being downloaded with a suitcase of things even to this day I am integrating and and revealing some of the stuff from my journey. And I don't plan to go on another one because this is at least not for now because I still am taking fruits from this one journey I had. You know, they say inside the acorn lives the mighty oak. And I think of a seed that produces fruit. Like it's so too is the information that may be given to you in this moment of clarity or in this heightened state of awareness. It just, it's not, it's for you to understand. I'm going to show it to you and then it's going to plant it and it's going to grow in 25 years. Wow. Isn't that wild? Isn't that like an alien, alien technology? Yeah. It should be in the books. I think that could be a good tool or a good lens through which to understand education on some level. Maybe that's what's happening now, but... Melissa, we've blown through an hour already. I know you've got some more stuff coming up. So this is a really fantastic, fun, engaging and educational conversation. I've appreciated it. And you have to come back because it was just like we just scratched the surface of it. Yes, exactly. Thank you very much. Yeah, but please take a few moments just to explain to people where they can find you, what you have coming up in the future and what you're excited about. So you can find me on either Instagram or themilica.com. Maybe I'm going to send you some links to include with the podcast. But more importantly, where you can find the work I'm doing is at silocaibinesf.com. That is website. And over there, we have an upcoming conference, November 9th, 10th. We're going to talk about legal access to psilocybin and psilocybin for a specific purpose. Those are going to be two main topics. We expect a thousand people to come and we will have many great experts from the industry presenting it's going to be online anybody can access the tickets are affordable for everybody that's one thing and the second thing is if you're interested about psychedelic industry and who are the players please do go to bizdelics.com like business and psychedelics just bizdelics.com and over there you can find the list and scroll through it and see if you can find something interesting or you can contribute in a way their trainings as well You can follow some people if you are interested. And yeah, if you find that appealing, there is also a podcast, Psychedelic Pillow Talk, where we present the humans from the psychedelic realm, showcase who they were in the past lives and who they are currently and what they are doing and what do their lives look like now? And yeah, that's it for now. And I'm very excited to see where the whole industry will take us as a society. Me too. And I'm stoked you're out there doing what you're doing. And for everybody listening or watching this, the links will be in the show notes. Go down and check them out. Reach out. Check out that free list that she has if you really want to know who's being involved. And if you have something to add, you could be on the list. Call her up. Reach out to her. And Melissa, please hang on briefly afterwards. I still want to talk to you for just a few short minutes. But to everybody else, I hope you have a beautiful day. I hope you realize that you're part of something bigger than you could possibly imagine. And that there's a little miracle around the corner waiting to happen to you. So that's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. Hope you have a beautiful day. Aloha.